Did the Forsaken get a new "image" since Cataclysm?

[Aquamonkey]

I'm not sure what you're talking about with Trolls. The Trolls of the new Horde (Darksprear) were picked up by Thrall on his trip to Kalimdor from Azeroth, on an island. They were under attack by a Sea Witch. Other Trolls, like those that joined the Old Horde, have been antagonizing the Alliance/Elves for a very, very long time.

An Alliance fleet invaded the Darkspear islands and Sen'Jin appealed to Thrall to drive them out. This happened before the Sea Witch.

[Eats Compost]

An Alliance fleet invaded the Darkspear islands and Sen'Jin appealed to Thrall to drive them out. This happened before the Sea Witch.

Really? When was this lore added? Maybe I'm just dumb and forgot it. Oh well.

That said, I'd say it's a fair argument that Humans attacking Trolls, after all their experience with Trolls, isn't entirely unreasonable. Unfortunate for the Darkspear, yes, but Humans hadn't had much diplomatic success with Trolls.

[Scummer]

Really? When was this lore added? Maybe I'm just dumb and forgot it. Oh well.

Quite a long time .
It's in the WC3 demo iirc. For whatever reason those missions weren't added to the released game.
Here's a video of it - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJVIFCaWq3I

That said, I'd say it's a fair argument that Humans attacking Trolls, after all their experience with Trolls, isn't entirely unreasonable. Unfortunate for the Darkspear, yes, but Humans hadn't had much diplomatic success with Trolls.

It's fair so far as the Darkspears are only a single small tribe in one huge race of beings that are wide spread which makes it less racist I suppose if you want to be nit picky in that sense, unlike the Orcs where it wasn't just one clan that revisited their noble savage roots. Unlike Orcs the Darkspear are the exception to the rule rather than the rule when it comes to Trolls.

[Verdugo]

Really? When was this lore added? Maybe I'm just dumb and forgot it. Oh well.

It was the first mission of the demo campaign. After you destroy alliance base, murlocs attack.

[Azutael]

Really? When was this lore added? Maybe I'm just dumb and forgot it. Oh well.

It's one of the missions in WC3 if I remember correctly.

[thorvath]

If WoW2 ever comes to pass, at this point, from a lore perspective, it would make much more sense if there were 3 factions. Alliance, Horde as depicted in Warcraft 3 (Orcs, Tauren, and Trolls), and The Forsaken + Blood Elves. The Undead always seemed tacked onto the Horde lorewise and Sylvanas' ties to the Blood Elves are the only thing that really made sense with the Elves addition to the Horde. Both are generally treated as outsiders by the other Horde races (npcs not players obviously, BElfs and Undead are easily the most popular races Horde side). The Alliance being increasingly "Eastern Kingdoms centric" might give a good argument for the Night Elves to be removed from them. One might even argue Night Elves and Tauren would be more logical as a 4th faction ("The Druids" if you want a nice faction title) too as their quests are frequently "we have to save a NElf/Tauren druid from our aggressive Orc/human ally".

Edit: I forgot about the Draenei, Goblins, and Werewolves, but so has the WoW dev team lol. Draenei probably fit best with the Humans, Gilneans should be aligned with Stormwind but they have been tied really close to the NElves and they are druids too, Goblins are better as an opportunistic neutral race so the Panda route of choosing a faction would probably work well (otherwise they are just the Orcs "little pals" much like the Dwarves/Gnomes are to the Humans).

[Dreknar20]

[/COLOR]Every time I hear you talk, Drek, I wonder where the hell you got your concepts of what a warrior is, cause clearly it isn't the real world lol.

is that so?

You most likely need hate and violence to fight
You definatly need it in order to take life

Viewing the enemy side as too much like yourself and being to compassionate to them handicapps your ability to fight.
Thats why in war you always have name calling and each side demonizng the opposing side to make ti easier to kill them.

Not being able to jump into the fray because , omgz that one dude kinda looks like my uncle, means your failing your duty

[Deleted]

They are in no way "evil". They are just better at what other factions invented - massacring others, imprisoning them and whatnot. Well, at least they give enemy soldiers second chances.

Killing people and raising them into undeath. Yeah the Scourge wasn't evil either.

[Aquamonkey]

Killing people and raising them into undeath. Yeah the Scourge wasn't evil either.

Well, the Scourge killed and raised people into undead slavery. At least the Forsaken raise people into undead freedom. Killing and raising people into a second life is better than just leaving them dead.

[Dreknar20]

Killing and raising people into a second life is better than just leaving them dead.

idk man, being a rotten ugly smelly walking corpse isnt a very appealing situation....
Then again neither is death

[Deleted]

Well, the Scourge killed and raised people into undead slavery. At least the Forsaken raise people into undead freedom. Killing and raising people into a second life is better than just leaving them dead.

Not killing them in the first place would be even better. But I think that a lot of people would agree, they'd rather remain dead than to live as a corpse.

[Dreknar20]

. But I think that a lot of people would agree, they'd rather remain dead than to live as a corpse.

is that so?
Because the fear of death is a very common thing among all sentient beings

[Zaelsino]

Well, yeah. The Forsaken have always been "Scourge lite" in theme and aesthetic, but now the actual Scourge is gone, they've stepped up the evil-o-meter a bit and taken over to keep the whole "empire of undeath" thing alive. Pun unintended.

One could argue it's preferable to hiding in decrepit old human buildings.

[Shefu]

So it's ok for Night Elves to be hateful of every other race in game, or for humans to conquer and secure their lands but its not ok for the Forsaken? Yeah. Ok. They're evil, sure.

[Aquamonkey]

Not killing them in the first place would be even better. But I think that a lot of people would agree, they'd rather remain dead than to live as a corpse.

Did you see Shaun of the Dead? It was pretty much business as usual living as a zombie.

[Verdugo]

Not killing them in the first place would be even better. But I think that a lot of people would agree, they'd rather remain dead than to live as a corpse.

Only ignorant could possibly defy such reward.

[Deleted]

Not killing them in the first place would be even better. But I think that a lot of people would agree, they'd rather remain dead than to live as a corpse.

The dead people that are risen back to "life" by the Val'kyr are given free choice. They decide whatever they want to do.
Some willingly join Sylvanas, others prefer to fend for themselves alone in the woods, a few can't accept their current undeath condition, and prefer the suicide.

[Deleted]

The dead people that are risen back to "life" by the Val'kyr are given free choice. They decide whatever they want to do.
Some willingly join Sylvanas, others prefer to fend for themselves alone in the woods, a few can't accept their current undeath condition, and prefer the suicide.

They also had their life taken away by them in the first place.

[Deleted]

They also had their life taken away by them in the first place.

Happans if you're in war... whats your point? Do you suggest that people die during wars?!

[Deleted]

So it's ok for Night Elves to be hateful of every other race in game, or for humans to conquer and secure their lands but its not ok for the Forsaken? Yeah. Ok. They're evil, sure.

The Night Elves don't hate every other race in the game. And the Horde is the one that tries to conquer everything, not the humans or the Alliance in general. And it's not that conquering or that killing or that hating that makes the Forsaken evil. It's things like developing a plague.