Idea for a possible QoL ability for pally?, geared towards ret/prot mostly :/

[Kied]

Hey all,
I've been thinking lately on an idea of a QoL ability for pallies, more specifically for prot and ret. The reason I say that is b/c I think holy is in a rather good spot, more so when it comes to PvP along with HP generation. But essecially my idea is, what if we had an ability could be 3min or 5min cd which ever seems fair that instantly generated 3 HP. Think of it sort of like a battle shout, or horn of winter type of thing, a small ability that just helps get us some initial starting HP that we could use at the start of a boss fight or help out some in the PvP sense. It could somewhat help out the burden of having to use and upkeep inq. so much without hurting our dps as much? Granted I'm no genius when it comes to this, I just thought it would be something neat to have espeically for ret since thats what I main. Personally I dont mind keeping up Inq. but that first inital build up just annoys me lol, and I thought it would be cool to be able to use an ability right before engaging in pvp or raid boss that would give us the ability to use inq. so we could start in with using TV for dmg sooner. Granted I'm sure it could use some balancing or it maybe a dumb idea, it was just something I've been toying around with and was curious what my fellow pallies think.

[Fhi]

It's already in the game. It's called Holy Avenger.

[Eon Drache]

It's already in the game. It's called Holy Avenger.

I think he means something like Divine Plea for Prot in Cata.

[Fhi]

I think he means something like Divine Plea for Prot in Cata.

Still very similar though, only difference being the Divine Plea-ish spell does not need a target. Ret back then had zealotry, and 3HP DP was given to prot in the form of a talent. Now both (and holy) specs have access to Holy Avenger.

[Eon Drache]

Still very similar though, only difference being the Divine Plea-ish spell does not need a target. Ret back then had zealotry, and 3HP DP was given to prot in the form of a talent. Now both (and holy) specs have access to Holy Avenger.

I wouldn't mind something like Divine Plea. Inquisition at the start of the fight sucks XD

[Shelly]

No thanks. We've already got enough buttons to push, we're suffering pretty darn hard from bloat right now and could actually use things more streamlined.

Then again that's just about every class at the moment, such is a game as it ages.

[Nairobi]

No thanks. We've already got enough buttons to push, we're suffering pretty darn hard from bloat right now and could actually use things more streamlined.

Then again that's just about every class at the moment, such is a game as it ages.

(From a prot/ret standpoint) not sure that I agree with us having button bloat issues. Granted, I use a Naga and have ~30-40 keybinds, but a lot of them are situational (Turn Evil, ExtraActionButton uses, various targetoftarget macros and cancelaura things). In a given fight as a tank, I have maybe 8-10 abilities I use with any kind of real frequency, and a few longer CD's that get worked in. Ret is already pretty damn streamlined (unless you want to talk about utility, which SHOULD be more situational anyway)...

I'd love this as a tank, but would say that it likely needs to either 1) have the same MS effect for a few seconds that DP had (to prevent this from being used as a free 5stack WoG "Oh shit!" button), and/or 2) be on a long enough timer that it can use used as an emergency cooldown. Thinking 2-3 mins here, so as not to be "rotational". I'd like to see it OFF GCD, since that's one thing we ARE strapped for (both as ret and prot), but that's probably pushing it. Even ON GCD, it'd be great for Inq application or snap threat/stacking bastion on a pull.

I agree that access to HA for all specs is awesome, but I don't think it's really what hes talking about, since you can't have Inq up on a pull just with HA (unless you judge on the run in and toss it up, but thats one less TV under HA/wings). Either way, don't think it will ever happen since we're in a "good spot" (tm).

[Trel]

Wouldn't a much easier and less intrusive solution be, to make holy power refill and level off at 3 when not in combat. This would accomplish the following

-We could use divine storm to be pretty again
-We'd have a decent move available at the opening of combat

what it wouldn't do

-Be much of a game changer since it would only affect the very first hit since it would only regen out of combat.

[Nairobi]

Wouldn't a much easier and less intrusive solution be, to make holy power refill and level off at 3 when not in combat. This would accomplish the following

-We could use divine storm to be pretty again
-We'd have a decent move available at the opening of combat

what it wouldn't do

-Be much of a game changer since it would only affect the very first hit since it would only regen out of combat.

Wow, what a simple and elegant idea.

Plus, you had me (and the rest of us) at:

We could use divine storm to be pretty again

[Deleted]

I wouldn't mind something like Divine Plea. Inquisition at the start of the fight sucks XD

so you're complaining that instead of 1 button to push at the start of a fight, you need 3. because that's basically it: you cast judgement, then exorcism, then CS and you got enough for a 3 HP inq. so basically you want what rogues are getting in Marked for Death.

aren't we already too much like rogues? I mean, gameplay wise i can only see 3 differences between us and rogues: we use a 2H, we use plate and we have a bank of HP. the rest is all pretty much the same:

maintenance buff (SnD, inq);
combopoint system with builders and finishers;
buff with extra damage and combopoints (shadow blades, holy avenger);
straight up damage buff (avenging wrath, spec specific CD);
immunities (CloS, bubble).

Honestly, I think we should move away from our roguey feel.

[Kied]

Wouldn't a much easier and less intrusive solution be, to make holy power refill and level off at 3 when not in combat. This would accomplish the following

-We could use divine storm to be pretty again
-We'd have a decent move available at the opening of combat

what it wouldn't do

-Be much of a game changer since it would only affect the very first hit since it would only regen out of combat.

You know I didnt even think of that and that is actually an amazing idea! Thats sort of how the former lock soulshards worked, I think along with their drain soul and their version of evocate(sry the name escapes me). I think I would be super content with this idea.

Also a co-worker and I were talking in regards to the whole "why cant they make spells/abilities have different ratios and such in pvp vs pve". What would you guys think about the idea of us having the dual spec, and then a 3rd spec that was specific for pvp. Like the way it would work is as soon as you switched to the "pvp" spec all your ratios on things would change to whatever relation they would need to be for pvp. That way they could sort of balance pve and pvp abilites without entirely conflicting with the other? Your ratios and things wouldnt change in the environment but rather in the spec. Granted the complications I could see with this would be in the world pvp area, b/c how would it work if someone in the "pvp" spec and one in the "pve" spec do when faced in the world pvp environment. Idk just constructive ideas to see where we can improve things for the betterment of all of us!

[Raugnaut]

For ret, that could be solved with a simple, Inq used without any HP lasts for 5 seconds, but can only be used without HP once a minute. Ample enough time to get a 3 HP Inq up.

For Prot? IF the boss came right off the bat hitting like a truck, then yes, that would probably be needed, along for something similar for all classes. However, blizz has it this expansion to where bosses DON'T start hitting like trucks until a few seconds in. I.E Stone Guard doesn't put up the bleed for about 10 seconds after pull, Feng looks pretty for the first 10 seconds of a pull, Gara'jal doesnt do his voodoo dolls till 10 seconds after a pull, Kings, well, that ability is more of a constant AoE pulse, Elegon looks straight ahead for 10 seconds after the pull, and Will, doesnt come out for a full mins. There are similar things for ALL bosses from what I noticed. No tanks are in danger of being instagibbed in the first few seconds of a pull, and good tanks will have thier active mitigation up before the bosses get mean.

In terms of longest time for good mitigation... As I stated previously, we are in the same boat as a Monk. Monks have to use at least 4 globals to get up max active mitgation, unlike our 3. (Granted, they have a 1 second GCD). Generally, its something like Keg Smash-Tigers Palm-Jab+Guard-Jab-Blackout Kick, and then they get thier ball rolling. For use, its Avenger's Shield-Hammer-Judge/Shield, then we get our ball rolling. Druids/Warriors have it about the same. They CAN, right before the pull, get a max of 30 rage each really quick. For us, thats the equivalent of 1 and 1/2 HP, rounded down to 1 since they need at least 2 more globals each to get active mitigation going, and 1-3 additional globals to get debuffs put up. DKs are the only one who can pop in with Active mitigation up- However, the effectiveness of thier SotR equivalent is dependent upon damage taken, thus a good DK takes about the same number of globals to get everything up and running (Lets say, Outbreak->HS->DS, then normal).

But yea, blizz has designed it to where all bosses deal little damage long enough for tanks to get all forms of mitigation going, then they start swinging hard. Prots in the same area as other specs, Rets need a slight bit of QoL buff.

---------- Post added 2013-01-04 at 08:53 AM ----------

Wouldn't a much easier and less intrusive solution be, to make holy power refill and level off at 3 when not in combat. This would accomplish the following

-We could use divine storm to be pretty again
-We'd have a decent move available at the opening of combat

what it wouldn't do

-Be much of a game changer since it would only affect the very first hit since it would only regen out of combat.

In PvE, this would add about 2 extra TVs. We would have Inquistion up with about 20 seconds left, AND start off with a TV. around a .1% dps increase maybe? So, not much PvE change besides opener.

In PvP, this leads to rets having quite a bit of extra burst at the beggining. Rather then having to spend time to get up Inq, we wade in with an Inquisition powered TV, pop HA, and have a LOT more Inq powered TVs after. Should it have, say, a 10 second recharge time, thats only 1 less TV. Heavenly Divine Purpose RNG could lead to a potential TV-till opponent is dead kinda burst, without any other moves but Inq, TV. Eh... Why not, its not like we dont need the buff.