Why does Blizzard support something so broken?

[Deleted]

People would start demanding Blizz to foot the bill about low population servers. Give an inch they'll ask for a mile.




PEOPLE KEPT ON ASKING FOR IT AND THEY GAVE IT TO US. I remember pre Cata almost every month people asked for it.

Making unable to use flying mounts when in PVP would be bad. If they did that even level 90 gankers in PVP would prevent those that don't even want to PVP or weren't even trying ot and got ganked and they CAN'T escape. Would that be fair? No

It's not like there is no upside! I would never have leveld up archeology without flying mounts in the old world. Actually most profession leveling or achievement hunting would be terrible without that.

I think the problem that flying mounts pose in world pvp in general is just especially obvious in the old world because most ganks there will be 90s on flying mounts vs lowbies on ground mounts.
I'd gladly get some actual pvp going with some gankers but the sole reason the ganking is so prevalent (which before flying mounts was a great way to get some REALLY huge battles going) is because there are no repercussions. I might catch them in the act once but it only takes 1 gcd worth of time to mount up and "unflag pvp" after you rez so it really is a futile endeaver. I cant even be arsed to hang around the dark portal because all that ever happens are flying mount standoffs between 90s....

[Hanto]

Fun (probable) Fact: If WoW had a 10mil subscription base back when you thought rolling on a PvP realm was the cool thing to do in Vanilla, you'd probably be repeatedly ganked and slaughtered by the opposite faction as you are now, if not more so. Why?

Much fewer servers, fewer things to do at cap, farming, dailies, etc. I constantly PvPed in Vanilla and raided towns en masse. Leveling could be just as much a pain back then as it is now (if you consider it a pain that is, I just fight back on a main if I'm ganked constanly; aka I love it). Guess what? Don't like the ganking and feeling like your life is at stake when you log on? Don't play on a PvP server. G-G-G-GWARSH.

[rayden54]

The change was they put more players on a realm that was PvP flagged to start with. If you want to complain about anything you should be complaining about how your low pop realm doesn't feel like a low pop realm. That would be the only valid complaint you'd have.

It isn't just PvP on a PvP server. It's a bait and switch. People chose their realms for a reason. For a lot of people that reason was faction balance or population. Blizzard's gone and thrown those reasons out the window with no compensation (Hell, I PAID never have to interact with people from Illidan again). Worse, they expect you to shell out $25 PER CHARACTER (it'd cost me close to $200 just to move my characters over level 60). We had every right to expect the realm to continue to be the way it's been.

[RicardoZ]

CRZ is garbage and should have been reserved for PvP servers only. It adds nothing to the experience of levelling on a regular server except that you have to wade through more trolling, more competition for resources, waiting around for quest mobs to respawn, people who won't you join their group to get quests done...I really wish they would just give us the option to opt out...but they won't because they know everybody would. Just do away with it already or come up with some better way to implement it because as is it's pretty bad.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

It's not like there is no upside! I would never have leveld up archeology without flying mounts in the old world. Actually most profession leveling or achievement hunting would be terrible without that.

I think the problem that flying mounts pose in world pvp in general is just especially obvious in the old world because most ganks there will be 90s on flying mounts vs lowbies on ground mounts.
I'd gladly get some actual pvp going with some gankers but the sole reason the ganking is so prevalent (which before flying mounts was a great way to get some REALLY huge battles going) is because there are no repercussions. I might catch them in the act once but it only takes 1 gcd worth of time to mount up and "unflag pvp" after you rez so it really is a futile endeaver. I cant even be arsed to hang around the dark portal because all that ever happens are flying mount standoffs between 90s....

There is no real easy way to fix that. I don't want to force people not to use flying mounts on PVP servers.

[Deleted]

Fun (probable) Fact: If WoW had a 10mil subscription base back when you thought rolling on a PvP realm was the cool thing to do in Vanilla, you'd probably be repeatedly ganked and slaughtered by the opposite faction as you are now, if not more so. Why?

Well that's true, the "cool" guys did roll on pvp realms but that is still true today. The most competetive, skilled and interesting people are still playing on pvp realms so that hasnt changed. It's still "the cool thing to do". But back then world pvp was fun and existed in a meaningful way, that's the real difference.

Much fewer servers, fewer things to do at cap, farming, dailies, etc. I constantly PvPed in Vanilla and raided towns en masse. Leveling could be just as much a pain back then as it is now (if you consider it a pain that is, I just fight back on a main if I'm ganked constanly; aka I love it). Guess what? Don't like the ganking and feeling like your life is at stake when you log on? Don't play on a PvP server. G-G-G-GWARSH.

exactly. ganking is a part of pvp realms. And ganking is not a problem.
Nobody likes getting ganked but I never regretted it. Meeting someone in Tyr's Hand I remember ganking an alt of mine and sharing my opinion on their skills as a player by non-verbal communication is one of the most cathartic experiences I had in this game.
CRZ means you never meet those players again. Ever. That sucks.

more importantly though f you really did do pvp back in vanilla you surely remember the thrill of not having a flying mount available. And your enemies not having one available.

Mounting a flying mount should never have been /pvp off. If you want that you need to play on a pve realm with the other carebears. Alas, pvp realms are a mere shadow of their former self. And it's not about more or less ganking...

[Ragedaug]

Don't like the ganking and feeling like your life is at stake when you log on? Don't play on a PvP server. G-G-G-GWARSH.

That's what they did, which then caused a stream of tears from you crying about world PVP is dead. CRZ is a bandaid that will be broken once again due to an asinine mentality of "deal with it or GTFO". The don't like it, which is why they QQ, which leaves the only option to get out, which leaves you with no one to gank, which makes world PVP dead again. Which will make you cry that there's no one to gank again.

[Lucetia]

It isn't just PvP on a PvP server. It's a bait and switch. People chose their realms for a reason. For a lot of people that reason was faction balance or population. Blizzard's gone and thrown those reasons out the window with no compensation (Hell, I PAID never have to interact with people from Illidan again). Worse, they expect you to shell out $25 PER CHARACTER (it'd cost me close to $200 just to move my characters over level 60). We had every right to expect the realm to continue to be the way it's been.

The realm has always been the way it is. It makes absolutely no difference that some characters have a -Realm behind their name. You can choose your realm for whatever reason, but the danger of being ganked always existed. The only reason people are complaining now is because the population got increased and they want to QQ about something since they can't find anything else to complain about.

[barrsftw]

Put a debuff that doesn't allow you to use a flying mount for X min after killing a player (or possibly engaging in PvP combat) in Pre-MoP zones. Thoughts?

[Ragedaug]

Put a debuff that doesn't allow you to use a flying mount for X min after killing a player in Pre-MoP zones. Thoughts?

I think that is an awesome idea. I would completely support that. Leave it at 5 minutes, sharing the PVP flag timer.

*would edit it to say can't use a flying mount x minutes after engaging in PVP combat. The same things that would flag you for PVP would also trigger the no-flight debuff.

[Deleted]

There is no real easy way to fix that. I don't want to force people not to use flying mounts on PVP servers.

of course not. But there has to be some way, like a cooldown before you can attack another player after unmounting a flying mount. And respectively a cooldown before you can mount a flying mount after actively using direct abilities against another player.

PvP should be a commitment like it used to be, imo. If you want to gank lowbies - you are allowed to, it's a pvp realm. That's part of the whole package. But you should expect me sitting there, waiting for, intent on ruining your day and camping your corpse until you log off. Or better yet - call your friends for help and let's get this thing going!

[Justignoreme]

I use my ONE heal (expel harm) and it seeks out a nearby enemy (tons of alliance players thanks to CRZ's) and makes the guards hostile so I die again. This is total bull feces.

On top of the obvious pvp on a pvp server you saw, Monks have healing orbs, use those...

[Aeluron Lightsong]

of course not. But there has to be some way, like a cooldown before you can attack another player after unmounting a flying mount. And respectively a cooldown before you can mount a flying mount after actively using direct abilities against another player.

PvP should be a commitment like it used to be, imo. If you want to gank lowbies - you are allowed to, it's a pvp realm. That's part of the whole package. But you should expect me sitting there, waiting for, intent on ruining your day and camping your corpse until you log off. Or better yet - call your friends for help and let's get this thing going!

That's fair then and I like Ragedaug's idea if you engage in PVP combat though not if you get forced cause that sucks.

[Misuteri]

One problem about PVP realms is as gear has scaled to such ridiculous heights the competitive nature has evaporated completely.

When I was a 39 and 49 twink I could easily take down players 7-10 levels higher than me. That was during BC though. You don't have a prayer as a newly minted 80 against an 85 or an 85 vs a 90. When you're doubling health every expansion this problem is just exacerbated.

PVP realms were designed and implemented with 60 being the level cap and tier sets had less stats than a pair of boots or gloves do now.

[Deleted]

Put a debuff that doesn't allow you to use a flying mount for X min after killing a player in Pre-MoP zones. Thoughts?

that's actually a great idea. theres a thread about this on the eu forums but nothing much was discussed really. http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...0406973?page=2

[Aeluron Lightsong]

that's actually a great idea. theres a thread about this on the eu forums but nothing much was discussed really. http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...0406973?page=2

Keep in mind for those that get engaged by proxy(Or rather they didn't start the fight) This works on any server actually though world PVP in Goldshire always is amusing.

[CaptainArlong]

Put a debuff that doesn't allow you to use a flying mount for X min after killing a player (or possibly engaging in PvP combat) in Pre-MoP zones. Thoughts?

The kids with low self-esteem that are at level 90 and hunting low level players won't like it. Would be fun though, they whined to Blizzard about how flying mounts ruined PvP, so Blizzard said "no flying mounts from 85-90". Then when they hit 90, they go to low level zones and kill players that can't defend themselves.

That's the one thing that's always stuck out about WoW, the players hate fair fights.

[Orangetai420]

So you decided to eat in the smokers section because nobody was around, then the smokers arrived and now you want them to stop smoking. After all the threads we've had of this, I think it would be fun to sit and list all the different points of view that are about to be shared, because dead horses deserve to be beaten that hard. But I have a chalupa with my name on it.

Greatest post ever in response to anti-CRZ threads.

/win

---------- Post added 2012-12-29 at 01:51 AM ----------

That's what they did, which then caused a stream of tears from you crying about world PVP is dead. CRZ is a bandaid that will be broken once again due to an asinine mentality of "deal with it or GTFO". The don't like it, which is why they QQ, which leaves the only option to get out, which leaves you with no one to gank, which makes world PVP dead again. Which will make you cry that there's no one to gank again.

People who really love wpvp don't love ganking, they love spontaneous battles with equal matched opponents. Half the fun is the dynamic environment of mobs, guards, and other players. I'm so sick of people thinking that wpvp = ganking.

[Mitobunny]

I think there's a valid argument on both sides. CRZ ruins the concept of server pvp and kind of mushes it together, however, with the advent of dungeon and raid finder, the server's community is less relevant like it used to be. On the other hand, some people do join low pop pvp realms intentionally to have the option of pvp but not constantly surrounded by it, and CRZ has changed the way the server functions. Overall, I think the main issue is simply that when the server had more of community, it was easier to make friends and have them come to your aid...While now it is a lot harder to make friends that are willing to drop what they're doing and come help you. In BC, if I was getting ganked I would share it to my guild and any of them would have brought it up with their max friends and a war would start. While it is still possible now, most people just don't care because there is less of a server community.

Final thought: CRZ probably works for the better, but it might be nicer if lower levels had some sort of a chance to survive a high level swooping down from above, or even some sort of an ability to communicate with general chat in orgrimmar/stormwind from another zone to ask for help.

[Deleted]

One problem about PVP realms is as gear has scaled to such ridiculous heights the competitive nature has evaporated completely.

When I was a 39 and 49 twink I could easily take down players 7-10 levels higher than me. That was during BC though. You don't have a prayer as a newly minted 80 against an 85 or an 85 vs a 90. When you're doubling health every expansion this problem is just exacerbated.

PVP realms were designed and implemented with 60 being the level cap and tier sets had less stats than a pair of boots or gloves do now.

thats true. I remember many times being able to beat much higher level players trying to gank me. I have one especially fond memory of one of the many big headed alliance wannabe heroes on our realm decked out partially in warlord gear (no weapon yet thank god :-D) dying to me and a friend on our alts in their early 50's - ice barbed spear ftw <3

something like that cant happen anymore. It's instagibb now. Actually good luck starting out with a fresh 90 alt in pvp now. That's more broken than even a 10 level difference was back in the day. (not trying to argue against pvp power, it's good. Implementation just failed as usual)