Are rogues a dying class?

[Yemiena]

Wanted to share this article with you, entertaining read. Other than that, what are you guys' thoughs on 5.2, and do you think it will resolve some of the issues with rogues in pvp right now?

http://wow.joystiq.com/2012/12/11/ar...a-dying-class/

[Deleted]

Dying? Probably not. There are plenty of people, such as myself, who stick to their rogue due to nostalgia or simple class-loyalty. However, the people who do not care about trivialities, and prefer to play for "fun", competitive raiding or competitive PvP'ing, are probably the ones we're seeing leaving the class now.

We're not very entertaining to play.
We're not that useful for raiding purposes.
We're not in a good spot in PvP either...

We're just not really good for anything as of right now, and people leave the class for it. That's my take on the situation, at least.

[SilkDath]

We are at a very low class population atm. But bear in mind this is early in the expansion and we are still competitive. We will scale again, like we always do.

[Kael]

I still don't really PvP, but the other major issue (PvE side) - "rogues are boring" has some in-depth commentary 3-4 comments into the article.

The passivity of our class as a whole has really driven a lot of people away. I think making damage more active would make rogues a more compelling choice for PvP as well, although on the scale I'd hope for, it'd need balancing again. A lot of the complaints overlap with the OP at http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-up-the-rogue? .

If rogues are dying, it's because the class hasn't had a badly needed overhaul, where (just about) everyone else has at some point in time. Further, as regards PvE, and can be found (usually outlined by Incineration, but I think once eloquently by Sessh as well), all three specs play nearly in identical fashion in PvE, provided you replace one word with another. There's some very minor differences in where to pool energy ideally, and the cooldowns are different... but nothing else changes in the slightest, and playing one spec the way you should play another just won't punish you, leaving the feeling that you're playing THE rogue spec, rather than A rogue spec. Not even my hunter's abilities feel as incredibly similar, and no other class I've played has 2 specs that feel at all similar.

Silk - that may affect representation in PvP, but scaling doesn't make the PvE side any more compelling to play.

[Deleted]

They'll never die, but they will remain underpopulated, it's more of a designed stagnantness rather than actual ability.

[Sturmbringe]

The only reason I play a Rogue is because it was my second toon I created after my Hunter back in Dec 2005.

I have posted several threads here explaining why the class is a joke in PvP atm and I am happy I got heard by the Devs. In particular, I hate it that I cannot PvP effectively as Sub and I am forced to play Assassination, as Sub cookie cutter and later Sub Hemo was always my favourite specs.

For people who like to excel in PvP and PvE however and are not affected by nostalgia, the Rogue plain and simple has got nothing to offer. It is the least mobile and squishiest class in a game where Warriors stunlock people with 64% PvP resilience to death and where Ret Paladins became one of the most mobile specs in the game.

PvE wise the class is underperforming too, although I am not sure why as I am only raiding RF and quite frankly I tend to top the meters there even with relatively bad gear.

[Paladin885]

and where Ret Paladins became one of the most mobile specs in the game.

heh, I guess pigs DID learn to fly after all...


I hate it for rogues... they were one of the classes that needed its utilities to be effective and all that 5.0 talents do for each class is make you choose between tools and buffs.

One of the things I hate is that some classses, like hybrids, have awesome talents to select while others, like rogues, force you to pick between 2 "needed" talents while the rest are sub-par. Also, I don't personally find the rogue glyphs to be all that appealing as well compared to other class's options. It's a real buzzkill how the class is kind of "meh" now.

If WoW had a job fair for each class allowing players to sign up who they want to be (or play as) I bet you anything the rogue class would not have as many sign ups as the others because it does not have that glowing essence like it used too.

[Kael]

PvE wise the class is underperforming too, although I am not sure why as I am only raiding RF and quite frankly I tend to top the meters there even with relatively bad gear.

It's a gear issue. By the end of the normal tier rogues should have no problems keeping pace with anyone across most fights (except for things like afflocks elegon/will), and approximately rise to the tops of the meters as you approach BiS.

[Sallador]

PvE we're not too bad at the moment. While sub par to a lot of other classes we're definitely not in a terrible situation.

Sub is great fun to play at the mo minus the backstab positional requirement, assassination is great single target DPS, much more fun than combat just feel a little too slow paced sometimes. Combat is completely and utterly boring, slow paced, sub par single target DPS and only played for the cleave.

[critterkiller]

PvE we're not too bad at the moment. While sub par to a lot of other classes we're definitely not in a terrible situation.

Sub is great fun to play at the mo minus the backstab positional requirement, assassination is great single target DPS, much more fun than combat just feel a little too slow paced sometimes. Combat is completely and utterly boring, slow paced, sub par single target DPS and only played for the cleave.

and said cleave is getting nerfed if i got the PTR notes right.

[Demeia]

While I absolutely agree that they should have given us some kind of playstyle overhaul, I definitely disagree that this has anything to do with our representation. There might be a few people who leave the class because there isn't enough active damage but the bigger question is why aren't more people choosing to play rogues period. The removal of the hybrid tax is probably the biggest reason; I think Blizzard recognizes this but isn't sure about how to solve the problem. They don't want to re-institute it so we're left with "how can we make people get excited when they see rogues in action?"

The answer clearly wasn't nerf the cleave :P.

They need to emphasize and build sexier, flashier powers for us. That's why the prep change confuses me: shadowstep baseline and prep as a talent make so much more sense because someone might get attracted to playing a rogue because of shadowstep. Prep is vital for PvP but it's invisible. No one is going to play a rogue because of Burst of Speed.

As for rogues dying, they will lose some rogues due to cleave changes but quite clearly they are going to regain more from the positive PvP changes.

[discoepfeand]

Do rogues have any of the Blizzard spell effects? On my warrior when the colossus smash proc happens, I get an on-screen effect, and on my DK when I get a Rime proc there's an effect. On my Shadowpriest there are affects, and on my Enhance shaman I get Maelstrom weapon proc visual effects.

I don't understand if I've turned them off somehow for my rogue, or if we simply don't have any.

If I'm not being dumb, and we actually don't have them, this doesn't exactly help us not be a "dying class".

[Deleted]

Do rogues have any of the Blizzard spell effects?

You get some shiny arc when you get a dispatch proc as assassination. I think that's it.

[Avengerx]

It's a gear issue. By the end of the normal tier rogues should have no problems keeping pace with anyone across most fights (except for things like afflocks elegon/will), and approximately rise to the tops of the meters as you approach BiS.

Totally right. The problem with this is that by the end of this xpac we will be overpowered due to gear, then due to massive qq from other classes we will get the bucket (as usual) come next expansion first few tiers...Our mechanics need a masssive overhaul but quite honestly I don't see that happening in the near future.

[discoepfeand]

You get some shiny arc when you get a dispatch proc as assassination. I think that's it.

Ah, I see. I haven't played assassination since Lich King. Anyone know if there are any other specs in the game with 0 spell effects like Sub/Combat?

[Gandrake]

Rogues will always be a low pop class imo.

If you ask me, the Rogue is a very mundane specialization in a fantasy RPG and most people do not admire the class' archetype and what it is built on. But that's just me.

no amount of buffs is ever going to change that.

I mean, everyone had a Rogue in Cataclysm because welfare daggers were too easy to get and the class was ridiculously easy to play at a basic level. But they didn't main it. They just casually played it, because it was too easy to get results with it.

[ati87]

Uhm if you look at that same chart you will see that every single class at max level has dropped or at best had a small bumb (nothing drastic).

However if you truly wish you class to die of (in both pvp and pve) just make sure you keep on making these depressing topics because that will surly help you cause.

The biggest cause of a weak class is mostly the player base who are absolutely convinced that their class is the worst (both pvp and pve). having a positive mindset will contribute more to your performance then blaming Blizzard.

[Avengerx]

Uhm if you look at that same chart you will see that every single class at max level has dropped or at best had a small bumb (nothing drastic).

However if you truly wish you class to die of (in both pvp and pve) just make sure you keep on making these depressing topics because that will surly help you cause.

The biggest cause of a weak class is mostly the player base who are absolutely convinced that their class is the worst (both pvp and pve). having a positive mindset will contribute more to your performance then blaming Blizzard.

I dunno...keeping a positive mindset for (insert X amount of years) now is getting harder and harder especially seeing how rogues could have been updated with the release of monks...

[Deleted]

Rogues will always be a low pop class imo.

If you ask me, the Rogue is a very mundane specialization in a fantasy RPG and most people do not admire the class' archetype and what it is built on. But that's just me.

I don't see it, I really don't.
A skilled assassin, reliant on shadows, that comes out of nowhere and murders you while you're having lunch (or any other activity) with your family.
How the hell is that not cool?

[Chult]

Rogues will always be a low pop class imo.

If you ask me, the Rogue is a very mundane specialization in a fantasy RPG and most people do not admire the class' archetype and what it is built on. But that's just me.

no amount of buffs is ever going to change that.

Yeah, those Assassin's Creed games are doing HORRIBLY! XD People love the Archetype, but the mechanics in WoW are outdated and not very exciting for the class. We have no cool spell effects, and pretty much everything we do outside of Killing Spree is either +more damage, or has nothing visual to it.