Are rogues a dying class?

[Rec]

We're not very entertaining to play.
We're not that useful for raiding purposes.
We're not in a good spot in PvP either...

I think that depends more on what individual players are looking for. That said, most rogues I know aren't happy with their rotations, though I haven't played rogue this xpac myself.

Rogues are really good in raids now, not sure why you feel that way.

Rogues have traditionally been in a great spot in PvP. Big deal, you're having one bad season right now, you're far from the only class. Look at the 5.2 notes, rogues are going to be ridiculous soon.

[Wow]

Retribution paladins is a good example of something that was at the brink of disapearing into the void, but now they are one of the most played classes out there

Thats a spec not a class but that said Tons played ret even when it was complete shit in vanilla. Lots have always played through terrible and great times.

Rogues not many play it even when its overpowered much less when its shit.

[Deleted]

Rogues are really good in raids now, not sure why you feel that way.

Mostly because an untrained monkey could perform just as well.

[Deleted]

I think that depends more on what individual players are looking for. That said, most rogues I know aren't happy with their rotations, though I haven't played rogue this xpac myself.

Rogues are really good in raids now, not sure why you feel that way.

Rogues have traditionally been in a great spot in PvP. Big deal, you're having one bad season right now, you're far from the only class. Look at the 5.2 notes, rogues are going to be ridiculous soon.

The general consensus is that rogues are boring. Whenever it's mentioned, people lean towards the notion of either a, the rotations are bad, or b, they're not horrible but could be spiced up. The amount of people I've met who're actually completely content with the current rotations can be counted on one hand; I'm not exaggerating. While I grant you that it's a very subjective matter, I just haven't seen people actively defend our current play-styles.

Not really, no. We're competitive, if that's what you mean. I.e. we bring as much damage as any other dps-class. But do we do anything else? Druids, Shamans, DK's, Warlocks, Priests, Mages... You name it. These classes all have at least one ability that assists the raid outside of simple damage; be that a simple combat res, bloodlust, or something like Hymn of Hope. They all assist the raid in ways beyond dps. Rogues don't. The best we have, if you can even compare it, is reduced damage to ourselves.... Which simply isn't that useful.

Not necessarily. We're getting some buffs, but how they'll work out for us remains to be seen. Mobility and utility will be going up a notch, but our rotations are still incredibly passive with noticeable ramp-up time, which hasn't been addressed at all. Scaling might do us some good, but again, how we'll be remains to be seen. It's hard to say.

[Ghostpanther]

Wanted to share this article with you, entertaining read. Other than that, what are you guys' thoughs on 5.2, and do you think it will resolve some of the issues with rogues in pvp right now?

http://wow.joystiq.com/2012/12/11/ar...a-dying-class/

Dying class? No. But I certainly understand why few want to play one now. So many design encounters anymore in dungeons and raids are very melee unfriendly. With a warr, atleast you are wearing plate. For PVP? I would'nt know or care, as I donot like WoW's version of PVP. I do know a lot of the rogues skills and such have been nerfed to the ground because of all the whining about them. Also they lack the overall versatility for me that say a thief does in GW2. I can for example, use two pistols instead of daggers and be a effective range dps'er if I choose to be. Yeah, rogues can do really well on single target bosses where the boss just stands there and they donot have to move. For now, they are too situational type classes to hold much interest for the majority of players.

[blackblade]

Here's a couple ballpark points, off the top of my head.

Things, that, (IMO) suck.

Slice and dice, Hit a button; Do more damage passively.
Blade Flurry, Hit a button; Do cleave damage passively.

Specs have rotations that are similar to each other.

I'm kind of curious how developers decided to listen to warriors "Fury/Arms 5.0 feel to similar" complaints, but not "Rogues Combat/Assassin/Subtlety 5.0 feel similar" complaints during beta.

I don't think they need a change on the scale of what Warlocks had to feel fresh again, but something akin even to how hunters three specs all have differences would be ideal.

Assassination should have stronger poisons, more options when behind the target (but at a disadvantage compared to the other specs toe-to-toe) with a cooldown to always consider the rogue behind the target for the purpose of landing his backstab-esque attacks or secondary effects.

Combat should be strong across many situations, and should perform the best of the three specs performing while facing the target (As in, doesn't get the hard-hitting-behind-the-target-attacks, with a hard hitting arsenal that is not dependant on how his enemy is facing.)

Sub should be big on bleeds, stealth, and maybe shadow damage. They should have a strong opener, maybe so much so like the warrior's execute phase (but lasting the first X% of the fight.) similar to hunters when striking targets at near full health. The should have a cooldown that allows them to take advantage stealth based skills while unable to be stealthed.

They should be difficult to keep still in PVP, (like ret paladins now)

[GrieverXIII]

I'm kind of curious how developers decided to listen to warriors "Fury/Arms 5.0 feel to similar" complaints, but not "Rogues Combat/Assassin/Subtlety 5.0 feel similar" complaints during beta.

Thats because they ignored Beta balance feedback as a whole.

[Slummish]

Rogues have always been one of the least-populated classes, in WoW anyway. People either love playing one or hate it. You won't find many caster mains that play a rogue alt either. Rogues and feral druids take a certain kind of personality-type for maximum enjoyment. I have a feeling that long-time rogues always return to their roots even when they roll a different melee class. Rogues fill a serious niche in the game, however. They are the only pure dps class to stand in melee range and as such, should be given a bit more respect and power by the devs. Rogue brutality has waned over the years because of Blizzard's attempt to balance all the classes and it has been fairly detrimental to the class overall. Before you make a nasty comment about my opinions being based on the love for the rogue, be aware, I fucking hate rogues and can't stand playing one; it's the class I loathe the most.

[Rec]

Mostly because an untrained monkey could perform just as well.

How does that make you any less useful in a raid?

[postpunk27]

I play my rogue because it is still fun to me. I'm combat for both PvE and PvP. There's nothing like sneaking around and picking the exact right time to strike your opponent. In dungeons and raids I can distract, sap, and blind etc when needed, so it's not just about putting up huge numbers. To be a deft rogue you need to know how to use every tool in your kit and also when to use them. I think a big issue here is that people just want to press a few buttons and let their op'ness do the rest of the work, and right now that simply isn't the case. As others have stated, our gear scaling is probably the worst WoW has to offer. I'm all for people jumping ship on the class so they can go be some FOTM faceroller. Let the people that actually want to be rogues stick around. Those of us that are rogues and rogues only, (I salute thee, brothers and sisters) will always be here, albeit few and far between.. and that is exactly how it should be. We're a tight knit group, and frankly, if you are playing a rogue looking for that FOTM status you are making the rest of us look bad and you are doing it wrong.

[Deleted]

How does that make you any less useful in a raid?

Read my previous post for details.

[D3athsting]

How does that make you any less useful in a raid?

Rogue is useful idd, we are used to boost mages' dmg by doing Tot on them... god how much i hate that, a skill who sacrifices ur already poor dmg to boost some1 else

[Deleted]

How does that make you any less useful in a raid?

We're bland and boring - read people's posts. It's a game, not a job.

[Regen]

We're bland and boring - read people's posts. It's a game, not a job.

See I don't get this. I always have a lot of fun playing mine. I guess it's personal preference but I like the pvp control, and the PvE play is fun to me goo

[Deleted]

See I don't get this. I always have a lot of fun playing mine. I guess it's personal preference but I like the pvp control, and the PvE play is fun to me goo

As far as PvP goes, we lost waylay, the positional requirement that comes with backstab since everyone's spamming hemo. What else, uh, shiv/crippling, the use/timing with prep and then vanish.
We got dumbed down. Nothing of value was added to compensate for the losses.

Yeah, PvE's pretty much identical to the cata playstyle if you rule out the groundbreaking ability that is shadowblades.

[KCguy]

They've almost always been one of the least played classes since day 1. Personally I find them incredibly boring and bland to play, but hey, different strokes for different folks.

[Regen]

As far as PvP goes, we lost waylay, the positional requirement that comes with backstab since everyone's spamming hemo. What else, uh, shiv/crippling, the use/timing with prep and then vanish.
We got dumbed down. Nothing of value was added to compensate for the losses.

Yeah, PvE's pretty much identical to the cata playstyle if you rule out the groundbreaking ability that is shadowblades.

Well yeah, I can admit as a level 70 twink in wotlk and a toon I maxed for fun at the end of cata was more fun I still find it so much better with its tools and such than other options. I enjoy it. I can't currently think of another class that has as much to offer, to me.

[AceofHarts]

See I don't get this. I always have a lot of fun playing mine. I guess it's personal preference but I like the pvp control, and the PvE play is fun to me goo

maybe because your rogue appears to be your alt and you do not play it all that much, this would lead to it not being the "Same old crap" every time you log on and play it. for example, you play a frost dk, you have lots of procs to pay attention to, lining up procs can go a long way towards increasing or reducing your damage, and you have lots of ACTIVE damage. whereas with a rogue, there is barely any procs, and those that are, are a minimal damage increase, and you have lots of passive damage.

[GhostSkull]

The problem with rogues are that they're squishy melee and touchy to play.

[Regen]

maybe because your rogue appears to be your alt and you do not play it all that much, this would lead to it not being the "Same old crap" every time you log on and play it. for example, you play a frost dk, you have lots of procs to pay attention to, lining up procs can go a long way towards increasing or reducing your damage, and you have lots of ACTIVE damage. whereas with a rogue, there is barely any procs, and those that are, are a minimal damage increase, and you have lots of passive damage.

Yeah I guess that's a good point. Honestly I don't play the DK much but I find it more boring in pvp by a long shot (having actually done more pvp on the rogue I believe) and all classes are more or less the same in PvE imo if you're not healing.