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  1. #181
    I am Murloc! Tomana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peso View Post
    As I've said before, nostalgia glasses don't exist it's a phrase pursued by Blizzard to release worse content and still make money while their die hard fans bend over.
    Of course they exist. It's even valid outside of games. You may remember your childhood fondly, yet if you re-experienced it again, you would probably find it less appealing. This phenomenon existed waaay before video games and is discussed in any good psychology book. -_-
    Last edited by Tomana; 2012-12-29 at 07:58 PM. Reason: spelling
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  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomana View Post
    Blizzard created an MMO which was more casual than anything on the market at that time and was flamed for it from the start. Do not twist the facts.
    Which makes one think if those that say that loved the "hardcore" Vanilla did really played it.

  3. #183
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Oh well..it is an old issue. Some guys like Nathane worry too much about how others play the game and stop enjoying it on their own skill level. And they fail to acknowledge the skill gap. Unless guys like Nathane play in Method, Paragon or any top 10 guild they have in my book no right to belittle or judge how others play the game.

    There is always somebody better. If you are now 16/16 normal, you are not as skilled as the people who are 5/16, 10/16 or 16/16 HM. So leave people who want to play on a LFRaid skill level alone. They get ilv 476-483 epics. Even rep items from dailies reward higer ilv gear. Even Sha of Anger awards higher ilv gear. Enjoy the raiding with your guild. You know you are better. You have the gear and achieve to proof.

    Honestly..why do i even bother?
    Gladys Kravitz syndrome. People trying to compensate for their own misgivings and inadequacies by poking their nose into the business of others.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  4. #184
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Okay..as much as I liked Classic when I played there..but do me a favor...compare Molten Core or BWL, the boss variety, the tactics with the first MoP tier and look me in the eye telling me how unique it was. It was unique AT THAT time. But so was my C 64 in 1985 and making fire with two stones 2 million years ago.

    I feel like you are telling me I missed out how epic phones with a dial and a cord and an operator to make the connection were compared to my sparkling new Smartphone.
    Real gamers play on dial-up.

    Oh, that reminds me of something else people missed out on in vanilla; ridiculous levels of server lag, ever present bugs, and let's not forget the AQ opening.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomana View Post
    Of course they exists. It's even valid outsides of games. You can remember your childhood fondly, yet if you re-experienced it again, you would probably find it less appealing. This phenomenon existed waaay before video games and is discussed in any good psychology book. -_-
    I don't feel anything nostalgic about the last three expansions so get at me. People remember what they remember nothing alters their memories especially in a video game with fantasy dragons and stories.

    Part of the reason Vanilla was good and why TBC was good was because the core team of Blizzard put their heart into making a fun game that everyone can enjoy, they didn't expect the game to be as successful as it was. When other companies saw the potential profit they could make with Blizzard they bonded together and changed the game to be more mainstream friendly which destroyed the core aspect of the game and the people within in.

    Do you really think a company that makes millions a month would not lie to try to change the general communities view on how the game was before it was mainstream? Anyways if people express their opinion about their experiences with the game when they enjoyed it then it shouldn't be bashed with nostalgia comments; that's pure disrespect on the persons experience. Something we haven't seen often in that time.

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Oh yeah, vanilla was great. You missed out on:

    - Half of the specs in the game being utterly useless
    - The utter chaos of 40 man raids
    - Taking a month to farm a thousand gold
    - Jumping around an entire continent to complete a quest chain for one zone
    - Extremely badly itemized gear
    - Complete lack of PvP balance

    Among other things.
    This so much. It was great for it's time compared to what else was available. I loved vanilla, but acting like it would be good now is ridiculous. In today's game people are outraged when their dps tree is simming 5% less than the top. In vanilla entire specs were broken into uselessness. How about hybrids only being able to heal in vanilla? I'm sure everyone would love going back to those days. You rolled a paladin/druid/shaman and didn't want to heal/buff in a raid? lol too bad.

    If you really look back at the Vanilla raids most of the bosses are pathetically easy by today's standards. Omg it's MC rag? He does a knockback and summons adds how can we possibly beat this complicated encounter???? These fights were only difficult due to it being new (the biggest one), getting 40 people together, and artificial gating by farming FR gear. Geddon in MC literally only does an AoE melee attack that requires melee to run out and a bomb mechanic, yet people used to wipe on it. There are 5 man bosses with more complicated mechanics than this. How about Golemagg? I bet it's real hard to literally tank and spank a boss who does absolutely nothing while his 2 dogs are offtankded. Garr? You banish his adds and OT the ones you didn't have enough warlocks for, while dpsing the boss who does nothing. The hardest part was assigning the targets in the days before raid symbols. We used priest mind vision and hunter's mark and assisting to assign them. It literally took longer to assign the targets than to kill the boss.

    Once you get to Twin Emps and Naxx then the fights got more difficult, but the majority of the raids in Vanilla were pathetically easy by today's standard. The barrier was getting 40 people together that wanted to actually do it.

  7. #187
    The ones crying out for harder content would be the first to ragequit over the first wipe in lfr and lfd.

    It´s fine as it is.

    You still need to have dedication to get BiS, this far nothing´s changed. REAL Hardcore raiders don´t care about lfr. It´s always second class players that want a cutoff behind them.

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Raybourne View Post
    That quote doesn't make sense.

    Did devs take into consideration how cost prohibitive upgrading is? its next to impossible to fully upgrade your BiS slots

    First, it's not next to impossible, it is impossible by definition.
    Second, it should be "upgrade your BiS". This way it reads: upgrade your best in slot slots.
    Actually, it should be "upgrading to BiS". If you can still get something better, you do not, by definition, have the best.

  9. #189
    I am Murloc! Tomana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peso View Post
    People remember what they remember nothing alters their memories especially in a video game with fantasy dragons and stories.
    /facedesk are you even serious? Nothing alters people memories, riiiight...

    Quote Originally Posted by Peso View Post
    Part of the reason Vanilla was good and why TBC was good was because the core team of Blizzard put their heart into making a fun game that everyone can enjoy, they didn't expect the game to be as successful as it was. When other companies saw the potential profit they could make with Blizzard they bonded together and changed the game to be more mainstream friendly which destroyed the core aspect of the game and the people within in.
    Maybe, but the initial intent was to create a more casual game than the main competitors had (EQ/UO/DAOC). That was their goal from the start on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peso View Post
    Do you really think a company that makes millions a month would not lie to try to change the general communities view on how the game was before it was mainstream? Anyways if people express their opinion about their experiences with the game when they enjoyed it then it shouldn't be bashed with nostalgia comments; that's pure disrespect on the persons experience. Something we haven't seen often in that time.
    What I bash people about is not their nostalgia, it's their attempt to mould everyone else's gameplay style to what they see fit. And their deep dark ignorance of the social changes in the gaming universe that took place over the past decade. You can be nostalgic and it's okay, but it shouldn't affect your analysis or your judgment.
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  10. #190
    if you don't think season 9 warriors and frost dks were retard something is wrong with you. Rogues were god mode in cata as well do u even pvp at all.
    You're right except for 2 things.

    1. My name is spelt "God" not "Loucious-sama".
    2. I'm not a man, because man is inherently flawed. I am in fact a being so far beyond your comprehension that archaic constraints like flesh, blood, time and consequently, gender, have no meaning to me.

  11. #191
    - Half of the specs in the game being utterly useless - Not true at all.
    - The utter chaos of 40 man raids - Chaos? Trying put a negative spin on 40 man raids without any elaboration? most content didnt require 40 man until late AQ40 and Naxx, there wasnt BiS lists so upgrades were upgrades.
    - Taking a month to farm a thousand gold - Ah yea, those days when you actually used your professions to make gold, although I cant think of anything other than a mount you'd need a thousand gold for back then, and going of your calculations that'd be 12 mounts a year... not bad.
    - Jumping around an entire continent to complete a quest chain for one zone - Its called exploration, adventure, the game began at level 1 in vanilla not at level cap where you sit in your capital city all day and wait for LFR to pop after doing those awesome dailies.
    - Extremely badly itemized gear - Low item level drops were poorly itemized to make raid progress steady, its not like now where level 40 items are better than T1, you can only look back when talking about this because at the time it wasnt an issue, if you had blues, upgrades were upgrades and that pushed your guild further.
    - Complete lack of PvP balance - I hear Arena is nicely balanced atm, 2s especially. Many variables as to why PvP in Vanilla seemed imbalanced, you dont seem to elaborate.


    Come to think of it, most of what have said doesnt seem to come from someone who played Vanilla, more like someone who reads the forums alot.

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by hitmannoob View Post
    if you don't think season 9 warriors and frost dks were retard something is wrong with you. Rogues were god mode in cata as well do u even pvp at all.
    While there are always strong and weak classes, the general balance in 3v3 isn't all that bad, especially with the nerfs mages and warriors are getting. As much as people don't like to believe it, skill still makes a huge difference. It's widely accepted (if you believe the forums) that Disc priests and rogues are terrible right now but somehow on Cyclone the rank 1 team is RMP. Granted they are an outlier compared to the number of shattertreeplay and KFC teams, it still shows that good players do good no matter what.

  13. #193
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    The game was better when the community wasn't so entitled and toxic. All I can see is a bunch of angry, clueless and abusive teenagers raging at everyone else for not playing the way they do.

    The game in Vanilla and TBC and WotLK was nothing like you remember it.

  14. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkbark View Post
    The game was better when the community wasn't so entitled and toxic. All I can see is a bunch of angry, clueless and abusive teenagers raging at everyone else for not playing the way they do.

    The game in Vanilla and TBC and WotLK was nothing like you remember it.
    TBC and WoTLK where both not even on the same level as vanilla.

    Everyone says it is just nostalgia no it is not. The game was simply better and more in depth. It was a MMO. WoW has turned into a lobby game.

  15. #195
    Yeah it was did u read the Wotlk forums omg content is so easy. The community for the most part has been pretty crap the only good thing, I remember about vanilla is barrens chat was where all the trolls were.
    You're right except for 2 things.

    1. My name is spelt "God" not "Loucious-sama".
    2. I'm not a man, because man is inherently flawed. I am in fact a being so far beyond your comprehension that archaic constraints like flesh, blood, time and consequently, gender, have no meaning to me.

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by Nathane View Post
    Because I am not feed the troll ass that you are? You come into every thread looking to bash people is your life so sad you have nothing to do with your 19k post count?
    ___________________________________

    Back on topic everyone thinks we can't do that because the casuals will threaten to leave! Honestly getting more hardcore guilds on twitch streaming and getting the game out there will bring the subs up. People not becoming bored and always on improving their character will improve subs. I hate this counter argument " Casuals will leave QQ "
    Dude, honestly, everything you are saying in this thread is dumb. All your ideas on how to bring players back to WoW are actually the very ideas that would drive players away. Blizzard might gain 1,000 players with your ideas but would lose millions in the process. Guess what they're going to do? Not use your shit ideas, that's what. Get over yourself. All I'm getting from your posts are "Look at me. I was a special little snowflake once and I want to be again." Making this game super hard would kill it faster then you could blink. Then you'd be bitching about how your precious game is dead.

  17. #197
    High Overlord Nathane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitmannoob View Post
    Yeah it was did u read the Wotlk forums omg content is so easy. The community for the most part has been pretty crap the only good thing, I remember about vanilla is barrens chat was where all the trolls were.
    You never really played in Vanilla then bro.

  18. #198
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morbownz View Post
    - Half of the specs in the game being utterly useless - Not true at all.
    - The utter chaos of 40 man raids - Chaos? Trying put a negative spin on 40 man raids without any elaboration? most content didnt require 40 man until late AQ40 and Naxx, there wasnt BiS lists so upgrades were upgrades.
    - Taking a month to farm a thousand gold - Ah yea, those days when you actually used your professions to make gold, although I cant think of anything other than a mount you'd need a thousand gold for back then, and going of your calculations that'd be 12 mounts a year... not bad.
    - Jumping around an entire continent to complete a quest chain for one zone - Its called exploration, adventure, the game began at level 1 in vanilla not at level cap where you sit in your capital city all day and wait for LFR to pop after doing those awesome dailies.
    - Extremely badly itemized gear - Low item level drops were poorly itemized to make raid progress steady, its not like now where level 40 items are better than T1, you can only look back when talking about this because at the time it wasnt an issue, if you had blues, upgrades were upgrades and that pushed your guild further.
    - Complete lack of PvP balance - I hear Arena is nicely balanced atm, 2s especially. Many variables as to why PvP in Vanilla seemed imbalanced, you dont seem to elaborate.

    Come to think of it, most of what have said doesnt seem to come from someone who played Vanilla, more like someone who reads the forums alot.
    They weren't? Please point me to all the hybrid damage specs that were oh-so useful. I have vivid memories of paladins exclusively being used as buffbots. And no, while not all content was 40 man the content that was, was difficult to organize groups for, and stressful to manage. Not to mention all the bugs, server lag, etc.

    As for the gold, the exploration, etc. I play this game to have fun, not as a second job. You might call exploration, taking forever to farm obscure mats to make items, having to put up with badly itemized gear "fun", but to many and I would hazard most, such endeavours are just grinds entailing large periods of repetitive tasks and wasteful travel time.

    No, the game as it stands is not perfect. But it is vastly improved. I do not have to spam trade for hours for a dungeon group, for instance.

    Assume what you like, it does not make it the truth.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  19. #199
    Whats the point of a game when its not hard, when it dosnt put a smile on your mouth when you get that item that you have been wishing for the last 3-4 weeks.
    Just the good feeling you get form downing a boss after weeks and weeks of trys was even better then it is today when you win a BiS item.

    Thats why it was so great in TBC. The HC ppl got what they did want, and for all the casual players the "world" stil had this magical feeling about it, that it was some unexplored areas, and that you one day might go there if you gave it your best shoot.

    Even as a raider in one of the top 50 guilds in the world at that point, i stil didnt get all the BiS items, and you know what, that didnt bother me. Why? I was there for the challenge and for the fighting on recount and wws.

    If you can get all the loot in a short time and see all the bosses within days via LFR... takes the game out of the game. It more like a daily quest then acctual fun/challenge or w/e you wanna call it.

    About the communety i totaly agree that LFG and LFR has destroyd it. You dont need to speak with other ppl, its like in Diablo. You just q up, kill stuff, and leave. ppl dont even say "hi" or "bye" anymore.
    By removing it the game with become a social game again, yes it did take longer to make grps if you didnt know ppl, but the rewards was much better.
    Another good this about it was that your ingame name actully ment something, and you could not afford to act like a retard like thet wast majorety is today.

    Only thing i dont want back is the 6 hour long AV q, and the 6 hour long games :-p
    Last edited by Lomppa; 2012-12-29 at 08:30 PM.

  20. #200
    Watch a video of the first cthun kill then watch a video of the first kill of yogg saron no lights.
    You're right except for 2 things.

    1. My name is spelt "God" not "Loucious-sama".
    2. I'm not a man, because man is inherently flawed. I am in fact a being so far beyond your comprehension that archaic constraints like flesh, blood, time and consequently, gender, have no meaning to me.

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