The Game Was Better When.....

[crakerjack]

So you quit because people are bad in random BGs? If you're really good at pvp you'd be doing arena in the upper 2000s fighting people of equivalent gear and skill. Unless you're a multi season glad/rank 1, your comment doesn't really make any sense.

No... not really... bad players made the game fun... because they didn't want to work hard at the game... It made it that much easier for me... But what I am referring to, are the baddies who act like their opinion matters when it only reflects upon w/e it is there doing... a bad player would say something like "Hunters are OP, they just keep running around and kiting me as a warrior." whereas a good player would ask if they disarmed or intercepted or charged or made sure to spam piercing howl when around them or make sure to keep hamstring up... then the bad player would say something like "disarm requires me to go into defensive stance"... my point is... the game requires a certain skill level, but the bad players beg blizzard to make it easier, rather than learning their class inside out. That's why most people love PvE, because it's all about tunnel visioning and not caring about anything but the few boss mechanics and your 4-5 button rotation... PvP involves too much knowledge of your class, but even that aspect of PvP is slowly being taken out cuz some classes have crazy burst you just can't do anything about.

Blizzard needs to filter out the advice they receive from the player base... a section for terrible people who think their opinions matter (majority of PvE people) and a section for amazing feedback and advice from players who know the ins and outs of every aspect of the game (like myself). All this bullcrap balancing stuff could have been bypassed if blizzard implemented some feature that makes every ability of a PvE and PvP effect. When attacking another player or his/her pet, the ability would do a different affect, similar to the PvE effect, but more balanced so that certain classes aren't utterly OP. Like how traps for hunters freeze npc's longer, but is way less for PvP... You could make arms warriors equal to fury if you made MS hit harder for PvE or increase your crit chance against that target by a %, but keep the % reduced healing for PvP. But you'd never hear something like that out of a bad player, they're too busy looking at the single side of something that is composed of well over 300 sides. Instead of finding a way to complete the rubix cube, they only focus on one side and don't care about the other remaining sides.

But WoW is far too gone... they've listened too much to those who don't know anything about the game and now those roots have taken hold and are influenced forever. I can't go back in time and replay the amazing moments of vanilla, tbc or wotlk. LFD/LFR made the game horrible by making players more lazy than ever... it destroyed realm communities... who do you think was the person who asked for such a stupid feature? Most likely some lazy player who barely had enough time to play the game... so they ruin for everyone else... they looked at one side... time... they didn't think about all the people they'd meet... the realm bondage that is now absent... it's not like there wasn't any feature to find people either... there was a full blown list for people who wanted to join that raid/dungeon and all you had to do was whisper them and find out their stats... not their ilvl that noobs seem to think has the utmost importance. There's issues with this game and no one wants to address them because they're too busy staring at the one side of the game that they care about... If you stop to look at the other sides, you'll then realize how crappy the game is.

[PBitt]

No. The game has changed, as has it's player base, for better or for worse...I don't agree with every decision Blizzard makes, but they already do a fairly good job making content for a wide variety of playstyles...*especially* those interested in hardcore raiding. Who gives a fuck if some baddie who couldn't find his ass with a map is in full LFR epics, when you are in full heroic raid gear because you like to raid hardcore. Really, there is nothing to complain about, and for a relatively small % of players that even see heroic content, Blizzard puts in a fair amount of work to satisfy that percentile of players.

As for 'grindfest' that people complain about in MoP...that is exactly what it was in TBC and vanilla, maybe not quite in the form of dailies (though there were quite a few in TBC, you just didn't need to do them for badge of justice gear), but nonetheless, they tried to reintroduce something and people bitched and moaned, like they do everything else. Yeah, LFD or LFR may not be the greatest, but looking for a 5 man dungeon outside of your guild...which a lot of people still do, mind you, was never any fun. I hated wasting my time spamming trade in TBC looking for a specific dungeon. I don't want it back, that's for sure. And it was the challenging dungeon content that I liked because it taught me how to play, not the community bullshit arguement everyone seems to use, people still ninja'd shit and pointed the finger at other players when wipes went bad, that has nothing to do at all with server anonymity, it has to do with people being online and not caring about other people.

As for difficulty...it's, um, harder than it was in the good old days buy quite a bit. 9 out of 10 'wicked hard' encounters were bugged or poorly tuned pieces of shit, yeah of course they were cool at the time, especially when they were a lore character we were familiar with, but now we have 8 years of experience and the best players do all the work for the rest of us, via youtube guides of forums up the ass telling you how to gear and play your class, so of course there are way of life changes that make the game easier because so many damn people play it.

I play for normal/heroic raiding progression, and that's it. I feel they still do a fairly good job with it, (well Cata kinda blew) especially if they stop nerfing them while they are current content, I'm really not sure what it is you are trying to say. It's a lot more difficult than anything in Vanilla or even TBC was. Yeah, some of the points made in this thread are things I would like to see for my own personal tastes but this game isn't made just for me or people that like progression raiding. Deal with it or stop playing, I don't see anything changing.

[Frizzlewits]

Totally agree brother. They need to stop handing out epics that took you 5 mins of AFKing in LFR to get. I want:

LFR removed.

LFG removed.

Dungeon/raid attunments back.

Crafting gear from raids costing more and increasing their usefulness.

No more heroic modes! Every boss is hard as it is presented with.

More single boss raids.



Taking away LFR and LFG will really bring the community back I think. Shit I know it will when things become hard again they become cool again. It took you 2 weeks to get that epic? Nice! it now means something.

and half of the playerbase would quit. yes more emty servers!
i have done it. shouting in trade for 2 hours to get 1 dungeon done and halfway the tank thinks. o i need to be afk for 30MIN!
basicly your run was over.
no thanks. i have seen it done it.
besides. if you do not like it, dont do it. simple!

[Buu]

In vanilla beta phase, because even in vanilla WoW there were still people saying that the old beta times were better. From launching is QQ down the hill.

In my opinion that doesn't matter, and the people complaining just want to ignore. The game keeps improving and it's always the last version. Except Cataclysm between 80 and 85, that sucked for most of the time.

[Issalice]

As someone who hasn't raided before MoP, watching my boyfriend (who is a hardcore raider) raid just made me feel utterly incapable of handling those situations lol, LFR made me very happy. I can experience end game content without the crazyness and pressure of an actual raid scenario, and it kinda got my feet wet. It helped me get over my fear, I'm looking forward to raiding with my guild now, and not just being on the sidelines pet battling and doing dailies constantly lol.

[Djuntas]

Have people completely forgotten how easy TBC raiding was, even for casual/medium-players? THE MODEL WORKED FOR EVERYONE; Its just that only few saw/cleared all content, witch made raiding still have a good level of mystic and prestige to it.

Its sad how everyone exspects to see and do everything inn wow now days, scaled down to there prefference. I was just fine and happy inn TBC even trough I never even saw Sunwell, or cleared much far into Black Temple.

Also Lootreaver anyone...?

[starkey]

jesus you people and vanilla references gtfo it already.

[Deleted]

Yes even the devs agreed it was a mistake to make ''Things'' hard and hey guy we your name that I'm going coo-coo I'm still waiting your armory like hurry up if your going to try and diss the so called ''Majority'' I want to at least see your amazing accomplishments within the entire ''HC'' of your armory

I must say I enjoyed the difficulty at the first few days. It was nice when running them with friends the first few days. Then it got tiresome really, really, really fast. Because it was merely "ah hell, this again" and more often then not you'd do it with randoms who don't even understand the very basics of what you're supposed to do.

[DieFichte]

jesus you people and vanilla references gtfo it already.

I can't say I didn't enjoy vanilla, oneshooting people as warrior was amazing...with autoattack!

[ringpriest]

Isn't making things super hard again what was kind of the breaking point for most people during Cata? Like Heroics being too hard and the raids being very difficult?

For the 1000th time, Cata instances at launch weren't hard. They were long, tedious, and dull; and they dropped players cold into a radically changed playstyle all of which made people dislike running them, but they were not "hard" the way BRD, UBRS, Scholo, or Shattered Halls, or Magister's Terrace were when they were current content.

---------- Post added 2012-12-30 at 12:18 AM ----------

The relatively small and predominantly hardcore group that regularly posts on forums =/= the community as a whole.

The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of players are in favor of LFR and LFD because it enables them to experience content they wouldn't normally be able to see and advance their character beyond heroic dungeons.

Simply put, Blizzard has to cater to casuals because casuals give them the money they use to make content for the rest of us.

How do you know what the actual thoughts of the whole playerbase are? (If you have exhaustive polling data for current subscribers, I would very much like to see it.) Why are forum posters not representative of the WoW community? What gives you some special insight that makes you right and others wrong?

[Peso]

Biological memory is far from perfect. It gets altered all the time, bits are lost, new pieces are added and not always in the right place. The older a memory gets, the more the data is corrupted. Everything alters memories. Do not trust your memory.

The further you are from a certain event, the more unlikely it becomes that you're still able to recall it correctly, but even recent events might be remembered incorrectly. It's even possible for people to vividly remember events they couldn't have personally witnessed. Including events that happened before they were born.

If it happened more than a few years ago, you better have it in writing from back then, or i'm just going to ignore your recollection because the error rate is way to high for it to be useful.

I felt the exact same way I do today as I did mid-wrath about it. I hated WoTLK style of raiding from the beginning even when it was current content. It's funny how people blame nostalgia on peoples thoughts it's stupid nonsense and for people that can't make a valid argument about why Vanilla / TBC was worse than current content.

They simply can't accept the fact it was better. It's not about the bosses difficulty that made Vanilla great it was the gaming community and the way they cared for each other. Other guilds helping the guilds that struggle killing a boss or when the events happened like kitting bosses with your friends to SW would make someone's day worthwhile. The mainstream way of approaching things today is to try to simplify it for new players and by that it damages the fundamental game that the game was built upon [i.e. the community].

[Argorwal]

I felt the exact same way I do today as I did mid-wrath about it. I hated WoTLK style of raiding from the beginning even when it was current content. It's funny how people blame nostalgia on peoples thoughts it's stupid nonsense and for people that can't make a valid argument about why Vanilla / TBC was worse than current content.

They simply can't accept the fact it was better. It's not about the bosses difficulty that made Vanilla great it was the gaming community and the way they cared for each other. Other guilds helping the guilds that struggle killing a boss or when the events happened like kitting bosses with your friends to SW would make someone's day worthwhile. The mainstream way of approaching things today is to try to simplify it for new players and by that it damages the fundamental game that the game was built upon [i.e. the community].

Or because back then it was new.

[Mandible]

But that's the thing, you don't need an attunement, aka gating the content, to tell the story. You can get the exact same story without the attunement, which makes the attunement as mechanic pointless.

Except when they skip telling the story in game, and tell it in a book you then have to buy to understand whats going on (which they have done a few times by now - especially since cata).

[Garrikk]

Seriously if you don't like this game or where it's going then unsub.
I think I'll pay 15 bucks a month to play this game and then gripe about it 24/7 on top of that. You have so much common sense.
I love being able to see the raids, I actually have a life and a job thus making being a part of a raid team very hard for me.
On top of that CRZ is the greatest thing that has happened to this game in the time I have been playing it. Who plays an mmorpg and then complains about all the people running around? Someone who needs to play a single player game.

[Coldfrostzero]

I've played since Jan of 2005 and I can say this:

WoW was NOT good in classic, sorry.

The game being accessible by more and more people is a good thing and people whom don't understand that think that when the game was released it was best. When I started there were two 40man raids (Molten Core and Onyxia), no BGs and it took literally hours to form groups for dungeons. Now you can do it with a push of a button? That's AMAZING.

Raiding has gotten WORLDS apart better than the boss has 1 mechanic and its generally very very easy to avoid (You ARE the bomb oh noes). People complain about LFR and its loot system which I find hysterical. You mean a system that allows you to raid if you missed out on a guild run OR got asked to step out this week? Man sure is stupid that THAT exists amiright? The loot system is also amazing because it stops all the ninja looting in LFR that was RAMPANT in DS, whispering someone over and over again about why they needed on the thing they already have just to find out they wanted the gold or give it to their buddy is silly. This way everyone has a fair shot at loot and if you get an item twice its just vendor fodder. My priest still only has 5/8 Tier 1 and I cleared Molten Core every single week during classic (not going to even start on BC-Cata on my paladin).

BGs in classic were HORRIBLE...Old AV SOUNDS good but the only thing "fun" about it was the distractions and added NPC danger which isn't what BGs are about. Also, AV lasting for DAYS with no winner until everyone decided to exit just so a new AV would start up...or 3+ hour WSG where someone would wall hack off the side of the map and then pretty much AFK the rest of the match. Yep, sounds like a fun time to me.

Dungeons in classic were also bogus, tanks didn't even need to exist because 99% of them were undergeared or had absolutely no idea how threat worked. I used to tell my friend that he was going to tank because every single tank we ever had couldn't hold aggro. Granted, I do think tanking should take some sort of aggro management but I suppose survival management is just a different face to the same idea.

Anyone who liked attunements is a masochist, there I said it. Nothing was worse than getting attuned for Onyxia as Horde...hours of trying to find people who wanted to go around the world slaying dragons in the weirdest places with a 60% mount that cost a bajillion gold by today's inflation. Hell, finding someone with a UBRS key or Scholo key was hard enough sometimes...then you had to run UBRS for attunement to BWL just to kick you in the nads.

The only thing I think I miss about classic wow is that gear wasn't the end all - say all of how raids were done...You could still be wearing lvl 40-50 gear and raid and kill a boss and pick up lvl 60 raid gear but again bosses were pretty simple back then and most of it was pretty faceroll/luck.

[nameuser]

I don't care about wow anymore because it's all about getting gear now. I used to care when getting gear was a big deal, when raiding meant taking on huge challenges, when lvling was a significant part of the game, and you actually had to think about what you're doing or else you died. People can say that if blizz went back to the vanilla/tbc system, people would quit. But I sure as hell wont start playing again if they don't. As with many others. The playerbase would just change to a more mature and hardcore one over time. It could even reach 12 mill again. The playerbase becomes what the game is.

---------- Post added 2012-12-30 at 01:14 PM ----------

I've played since Jan of 2005 and I can say this:

WoW was NOT good in classic, sorry.

Then why did you play it? It must really have been a nightmare you have gone through judging by your post.

[Zafire]

LFG really did kind of kill the game for me. I didn't even play the game until the last two months of BC, so it's impossible for me to have vanilla bias.

The first few months of WOTLK were some of my most enjoyable times on the game. Some of the quests actually made me want to read them and find out what happened next. The zones were the most well done they have ever been, too, IMO. I even got WC3 because I was so into the story and wanted to learn more about Arthas and the LK.

The first half of WOTLK did not have LFG. I made a decent network of friends to do heroics with every day. Because of that, I got into a guild that progressed well just because of how well I could perform in front of the people I played with in heroics. After LFG went live, it became much harder for me to find people to do things with. I quit for a while around this time for reasons unrelated to LFG, and came back and made a Horde DK (I was initially Alliance) on a PVP server. After I got 80, I spent about a week grinding PVE and PVP. After that was all said and done, I had a VERY hard time getting into a guild, and I had a very small friend list.

I dunno, I'm not really complaining about it much but I wish there was some kind of social/server element left.

I haven't really played WoW in a while, and I'm really enjoying Rift atm. So it doesn't really matter to me either way now.

[miffy23]

I've played since Jan of 2005 and I can say this:

WoW was NOT good in classic, sorry.

The game being accessible by more and more people is a good thing and people whom don't understand that think that when the game was released it was best. When I started there were two 40man raids (Molten Core and Onyxia), no BGs and it took literally hours to form groups for dungeons. Now you can do it with a push of a button? That's AMAZING.

Raiding has gotten WORLDS apart better than the boss has 1 mechanic and its generally very very easy to avoid (You ARE the bomb oh noes). People complain about LFR and its loot system which I find hysterical. You mean a system that allows you to raid if you missed out on a guild run OR got asked to step out this week? Man sure is stupid that THAT exists amiright? The loot system is also amazing because it stops all the ninja looting in LFR that was RAMPANT in DS, whispering someone over and over again about why they needed on the thing they already have just to find out they wanted the gold or give it to their buddy is silly. This way everyone has a fair shot at loot and if you get an item twice its just vendor fodder. My priest still only has 5/8 Tier 1 and I cleared Molten Core every single week during classic (not going to even start on BC-Cata on my paladin).

BGs in classic were HORRIBLE...Old AV SOUNDS good but the only thing "fun" about it was the distractions and added NPC danger which isn't what BGs are about. Also, AV lasting for DAYS with no winner until everyone decided to exit just so a new AV would start up...or 3+ hour WSG where someone would wall hack off the side of the map and then pretty much AFK the rest of the match. Yep, sounds like a fun time to me.

Dungeons in classic were also bogus, tanks didn't even need to exist because 99% of them were undergeared or had absolutely no idea how threat worked. I used to tell my friend that he was going to tank because every single tank we ever had couldn't hold aggro. Granted, I do think tanking should take some sort of aggro management but I suppose survival management is just a different face to the same idea.

Anyone who liked attunements is a masochist, there I said it. Nothing was worse than getting attuned for Onyxia as Horde...hours of trying to find people who wanted to go around the world slaying dragons in the weirdest places with a 60% mount that cost a bajillion gold by today's inflation. Hell, finding someone with a UBRS key or Scholo key was hard enough sometimes...then you had to run UBRS for attunement to BWL just to kick you in the nads.

The only thing I think I miss about classic wow is that gear wasn't the end all - say all of how raids were done...You could still be wearing lvl 40-50 gear and raid and kill a boss and pick up lvl 60 raid gear but again bosses were pretty simple back then and most of it was pretty faceroll/luck.

This, a hundred times this. I'm so sick and tired of people complaining about how the game was better in expansion x, and most especially in Vanilla (sorry i prefer to call it Classic). If you look at statistics, it's pretty impossible for everyone claiming to have played since release to have actually done so. The game exploded in TBC, before that it was a huge success but not at the "WoW"-Stage yet. Then factor in that not nearly a large enough percentage of those who really played classic actively are still playing now, and you get a large group of people talking out of their respective arses.

Anywho, all the mentioned factors are true. In essence, the game as it is today is 10x better than it used to be. I'll put it out there and say the current content is the overall best they've delivered so far in terms of how much there is to do, overall accessability and polish, and the raid difficulty/originality. If people were to do TBC raids now (as so many whine for because it's cool to do so), they'd be bored out of their minds after 1 ID.

Let me put it another way: loads of people love the old Star Wars and hate the new movies. I'm sure a huge part of the community there will hate on the Disney movies too, even before they're out. Now sadly tho, as good as the old movies were, they had their time. Most people simply don't sit down and rewatch those 25 times, they'd rather get something new. Maybe it doesn't have that same "omg this is awesome" - effect every time, but it's fresh. Get with the system people, stuff has to evolve and change. In my opinion, as a fully active player and raider since the beginning of WoW, it has changed for the better in MoP after the failed experiment of Cata. Please just stop whining without actual reflection or arguments, it's getting so tedious.

[Drfireburns]

This argument again? I guess some people just don't understand times and things change, including a video game you pay someone else to design and create for you.

Do I miss how things were in Vanilla? Of course I do, but the time of being a "special snowflake" are all but over; unless you go for some crazy title in the game that a casual person will never obtain.

Would you REALLY want Vanilla WoW back? I guarantee half of the people clamoring for Vanilla never even played it, so you really don't understand how class/spec utilization were laid out. There weren't Prot Paladins and Druids tanking back then. There weren't Disc/Shadow Priests running around. You NEVER saw A Boomkin unless someone was doing it for lulz. Everything was cookie cutter. Warriors tanked, Druids/Priests/Paladins healed, Hunters, Mages, Rogues and Warlocks did all the DPS. Raiding was far harder, and spamming for someone to replace a tank or healer in trade chat for a 5 man or a raid sometimes ended raids when no one was able to fill that role.

It made the game boring and really, really difficult to play unless you were in a HC raiding guild, and could dedicate far more time and effort to it than now.

So do you REALLY think going back to that style would be good? I doubt many people like being forced to be a HC raider for gear and gold.

Oh, honor every Tuesday? I doubt many of you would like that as well.

[Pull My Finger]

I find it especially amusing when people say "I didn't see a lot of content in Vanilla/BC either and I was still happy". Well who cares dude. Maybe you also like pain or something. Is that some kind of a displaced "less is more" thing or what? I had fun in BC too. But it's even more fun now, because there's simply more to do.

In terms of gaming and stuff to do, more is more, take it as it is. More dungeons, more content, more difficulty modes, more stuff for people to do, more people enjoying themselves = win. You can only have a problem with that if you're a person with ego/confidence issues and strange priorities in life. No, really.