[Guardian] Threat Problem :T

[Trubo]

Wat.

I understand Guardian gets the same 50% bonus to haste as for crit but I'm finding Rage generation high enough with just hit+exp soft caps and going for Crit. Thus I prefer mastery to haste for survival purposes.

No? Mangle should be used on cooldown regardless of how much Rage you have.

Probably should elaborate on that. If rage capped with Maul/SD/FR and Mangle off cooldown, Maul/SD/FR should be done first before the Mangle to make the most of your rage. you're only delaying the Mangle by .1 seconds to a global depending on the ability used.

[Raugnaut]

When tanking trash, especially 5 man/LFR, I would suggest glyphing Maul and just spamming maul, dumping any excess rage into FR (If you have any health deficit) and SD if there is no health deficit. This will help somewhat wth threat.

Also, for single target, Mangle>FF, always. Generally, single target damage is Mangle>Thrash (No Thrash up)>FF(No sunder armor)>Lacerate(No 3 stack)>FF(Sunder)>Lacerate(3 stack)>Thrash(Thrash up)>Swipe.

If you arent taking the boss first, the other tank will have high vengeance, and they WILL have to stop dps in order for you to gain threat for a period of time (For instance, on Tsulong, the warrior tank pulls first, and he has about 80k vengeance on the first breath, compared to my 10k or so. He cant attack at all for a brief period of time, and vice-versa.)

[Deleted]

Log seems to just contain trash and no bosses, upload a proper log and maybe we can see what you can improve.

[Arielle]

I understand Guardian gets the same 50% bonus to haste as for crit but I'm finding Rage generation high enough with just hit+exp soft caps and going for Crit. Thus I prefer mastery to haste for survival purposes.

But you can never actually have "enough" RPS :| No matter how much you get you'll still want more for T&C and/or FR.

u're only delaying the Mangle by .1 seconds to a global depending on the ability used.

Only really delaying it by whatever your latency is. None of those are on the GCD.

[ppcaki]

Maan, don't mouseclick when playing a druid. You are probably too slow doing it.

Also make a macros with maul and mangle to start autoattack. It is an issue when switching targets with no rage you can just stay and stare and the enemy.

Use taunt right before enemy uses some strong damage ability, the more damage you take - the more threat and rage you generate.
Also interrupt casters, so they start a melee attack on you.

Last way if nothing above helps, to tab and lacerate all targets - your mangle then will proc pretty often so you can use it more.

And also, try to avoid stun abilities by physically moving out right before it hits you or interrupting - when you are stunned - you generate shitty or no threat.

Peace.

For AOE:

Thrash > Swipe > Mangle > Glyphed Maul.

Single Target:

FF > Mangle > Thrash > Lacerate

Both of these, I'm using Enrage on cool down, Berserk for snap threat

When I'm getting close to rage capped, I'll use a Frenzied Regen if I'm taking damage, and if I'm not, then I'll Maul.

[Arielle]

to tab and lacerate all targets - your mangle then will proc pretty often so you can use it more.

No, it will proc exactly the same amount as if you had use those all on the same target.

[Deleted]

If rage capped with Maul/SD/FR and Mangle off cooldown, Maul/SD/FR should be done first before the Mangle to make the most of your rage. you're only delaying the Mangle by .1 seconds to a global depending on the ability used.

SD, Maul and FR aren't on gcd, so if you are rage capped, you should press it in the global before Mangle and Mangle shouldn't be delayed.

Also make a macros with maul and mangle to start autoattack. It is an issue when switching targets with no rage you can just stay and stare and the enemy.

Use taunt right before enemy uses some strong damage ability, the more damage you take - the more threat and rage you generate.

None of our damaging moves apart from maul require rage, so when switching target, no matter how much rage you have, you will be able to do an ability on it.

Also it is untrue that the more dmg you take, the more rage you gain, as rage is not affected or generated by damage taken any more.

No, it will proc exactly the same amount as if you had use those all on the same target.

to elaborate on this: it is because Lacerate procs mangle only on the initial hit now instead of on the bleed ticks.

------

I'd say most problems with aggro are down to one or more of the following

1. Its early in the fight or its a new mob that hasn't been up for long (same when aggro tables reset on some bosses)
2. sub-optimal rotation and/or improper use of cooldowns and pots
3. Fight Gimmick
4. Vengeance

Early in a fight, when tank swaps occur, or if you simply wish to taunt for whatever reason, the tank who was previously tanking will have significantly more vengeance than you and will find it very easy to pull aggro back off you. If you use a cooldown after you taunt, this can often be alleviated. This problem will occur even on bosses that give very little vengeance, if you try to taunt of a tank that currently has a dps cooldown up early on, you are going to have problems.

On AoE packs, the "Early in the fight" can basically become "the whole fight": for example, if you are on wind lord and you are not tanking, and you wish to take a mob off the tank, you pretty much can't, unless you taunt almost ALL the mobs. The other tank's vengeance will be so high, that there is really almost no point trying.

Fight gimmicks are like gara'jal where there is a fixate, or like madness of deathwing where there is some sort of spike dmg(although this problem has lessened since the vengeance nerf), or like stone guard, where one tank is tanking mobs that take normal dmg, and the other is tanking the mobs that take 90% reduced dmg.

So...Tips for keeping aggro:

1. Be aware of the situation, is it a large pack, which mobs hit hard, has your co-tank used cooldowns, etc.
2. If you are chain pulling, and you weren't tanking on the previous pack, don't expect to be able to on the next, unless you go and pull that pack just as the previous is dying (although beware of healers mana and people being dead)
3. Use your cooldowns, and use them appropriately. If you've just taunted, maybe pop a potion, or use berserk, or incarnation. Maybe use barkskin or SI and spam maul as well for a bit (providing its safe to do so) until you are sure you have aggro.
4. Communicate (this is not necessarily possible in lfr), in our raids, myself and my co-tank know when each other use dps cooldowns, when we need salvs for tank swaps, and how much aggro the other does in most situations. Sometimes a slight imbalance in the number of mobs you are each tanking can lead very quickly to one of you tanking everything, and the other tanking nothing.
5. ABC (always be casting) every global cooldown, always be pressing something that will do damage, the only exception to this is enrage, and this should be used before pull, and then a minute later, when you should already have aggro so losing a gcd is not a problem. Everything that you have that is defensive, is off gcd (apart from healing touch I guess if you have ns, or cw if you have that).
6. Stuns, if something can be stunned, then it won't melee, if it doesn't melee then the tank that just pulled from you can't get vengeance so you have time to aggro back...

I'd say, short of seeing a log of a boss or some situation where you're having problem, the above general advice is all that we can give.

[Arielle]

SD, Maul and FR aren't on gcd, so if you are rage capped, you should press it in the global before Mangle and Mangle shouldn't be delayed.

To expand a little.

Once you reach a point where recognize the next thing that lands has the possibility of capping you, use something. My personal choice is at around 75 Rage or so.