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  1. #1
    Deleted

    ww stat question

    hi,

    atm i'm playing ww monk ( 493 ilvl) in a 25 raid ( 6/6hc, 3/6hc, 4/4 nhc) and since 5.1 im playing dual wield and i have reforged my gear on haste > crit. ( i think all the guides for 5.1 are telling the same for dw)

    now i felt boring yesterday and i ran my char through simcraft and it showed me that in stats crit is over haste on my char. I know that simcraft is wrong sometimes so i searched ~ 10 different monk dds from top guilds / guilds who are hc raiding and nearly evereyone reforged completeley on crit > haste (9/10, most of them have haste under 4000 and crit around 36% ).

    So now i'm curious what is better in hc raiding. my next raid is tomorrow so i cant test it until then. Maybe one you can help me with this question/problem and know something about it.

  2. #2
    Deleted
    At the present time it doesn't matter if you prioritise Crit or Haste. Players are ranking with either and it depends on several factors such as; availability of gear and also rotation (if you are using FoF or not). So for the time being, its not right or wrong regarding Crit vs Haste. It will be very interesting in patch 5.2, but for now go for 'enough' Haste and till you feel that your not starved too much and then Crit <--- just my opinion.

  3. #3
    Deleted
    Actually ive gone for Crit > haste > mastery since i started my monk. Im just 489 ilvl and did 97k (singletarget) first boss HoF. With my trinkets procced im sitting at 50%+ critchance and its lovely

  4. #4
    I've been going really heavy on Haste over Crit. I've been thinking of trying the other way around to see if it makes a difference. Usually getting about 85k-90k at 487 ilvl. I assume I would have to learn to use Fist of Fury more to avoid being energy starved with the lack of haste.

  5. #5
    I go crit over haste. I have around 12 energy per sec with ascension. That does me just fine. In 466 ilvl, I pull around 60k-70k dps depending on boss fight and if I'm paying attention to what I'm doing.

  6. #6
    Ascension is a ridiculous boost to energy regeneration. With it, EB, and FoF utilization, you'll start to hit the "too much energy" point as early as 4k haste where you'll find yourself not using EB on cooldown or having too much energy to use FoF. When you hit that point, Crit starts to become a better investment because the energy regen from haste is no longer relevant. Of course, this wasn't the case pre-5.1 and wasn't well known until a few week after, so many guides will still be outdated (like the one on this very forum...) and aren't quite reliable. Generally if a major patch has been out for more than 2 or 3 weeks and the guide still isn't updated to reflect it, it's not a credible source anymore.

  7. #7
    Deleted
    Go crit when ever you feel comfortable with the amount of energy regeneration you have. I currently run with 5500 haste and dump everything else into crit. Sometimes I still get starved of energy however that's normally just before I use a FoF. The down time ends up minimal and there are even times were I have too much energy to spend. It's difficult to get the balance 100% right, but do what you think feels right for your play style.

  8. #8
    For me, I'm trying to go for Haste(5k/Asc)>crit>mastery. There's a fairly obvious boost to FoF crits when you've got dual Agi procs going on.
    Soothing Mist:"Healing them for a minor amount every 0.5 sec, until you take any other action."
    Jade Serpent Statue: "The statue will also begin casting Soothing Mist on your target. healing for 50% as much as yours. "
    [What's half of minor?]
    "Statue casts Soothing Mist at a nearby ally for toddler healing."

  9. #9
    After ~4k haste you will want to go crit as you'll start to see your energy capping since you won't be able to spend it fast enough. This is assuming you have Ascension.
    Noirluna the Immortal of Proudmoore

  10. #10
    Dreadlord Callimonk's Avatar
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    I've even gone as low as 3.6k haste (and 32% unbuffed crit) and found myself comfortable. It really depends on the fight. I know in a Patchwerk fight I'd want to bring myself up to at least 4-4.5k, but I haven't found any fights close enough to patchwerk that would warrant it. Granted, I'm currently cursed to use a 2H, so my mileage is a bit different than yours - I already receive the 40% melee attack speed.

    The think to keep in mind that your crits work off of dmg multipliers, such as your Tigereye Brew (additional damage) and the 15% additional damage from using your RSK

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    Ascension is a ridiculous boost to energy regeneration. With it, EB, and FoF utilization, you'll start to hit the "too much energy" point as early as 4k haste where you'll find yourself not using EB on cooldown or having too much energy to use FoF. When you hit that point, Crit starts to become a better investment because the energy regen from haste is no longer relevant. Of course, this wasn't the case pre-5.1 and wasn't well known until a few week after, so many guides will still be outdated (like the one on this very forum...) and aren't quite reliable. Generally if a major patch has been out for more than 2 or 3 weeks and the guide still isn't updated to reflect it, it's not a credible source anymore.
    Interesting. Have you seen any guides that are updated? I've checked EJ, Method, here, and the WoW forums and all of them appear outdated as of 5.1.

  12. #12
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Froyo View Post
    Interesting. Have you seen any guides that are updated? I've checked EJ, Method, here, and the WoW forums and all of them appear outdated as of 5.1.
    No updated guides, but there's a trend to go for full Crit now, but it depends on so many factors still; gear availability, talents, using FoF or not.

  13. #13
    I'm a top 10 parsing monk and decided to go full crit because of ascension. Haste does not benefit monks as well past 12.5 - 13 energy per second because you will always be energy capped when using FoF. FoF is one of our best dmg/chi abilities and you want to be able to use it almost off CD. The infinite scale with haste on FoF is so miniscule that it does not give haste an edge over crit in simcrafts. The other thing to note is that you will ALWAYS get the 5th tick of FoF regardless of your haste meaning the FoF haste scaling will ONLY reduce the channel time of the spell and never add more damage to it.

  14. #14
    At 6K haste and Ascension, using Energizing Brew can be a terrible thing.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by sethg View Post
    The other thing to note is that you will ALWAYS get the 5th tick of FoF regardless of your haste meaning the FoF haste scaling will ONLY reduce the channel time of the spell and never add more damage to it.
    Uh... what? Of course it doesn't add more damage, the only abilities on which haste add more damage per cast are DoTs. What it DOES do is shorten the channel time so that your auto-attacks start back up more quickly, which actually makes FoF scale with haste somewhat, at least better than all of the instant GCD abilities do.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    Uh... what? Of course it doesn't add more damage, the only abilities on which haste add more damage per cast are DoTs. What it DOES do is shorten the channel time so that your auto-attacks start back up more quickly, which actually makes FoF scale with haste somewhat, at least better than all of the instant GCD abilities do.
    I don't understand what you are trying to do here. You basically just restated what I said with an argument for haste being better because it gets you to auto attacking quicker. While that is true my point was that haste does not give your FoF more damage which is true. The scaling of haste greatly diminishes after 12.5 energy because of many reasons and this is one of them. Crits have a higher damage modifier to them then getting back to auto attacking .01 seconds faster which is one of the reasons why Crit is worth more effective points. Now if you pair that last statement with the fact that energy regen higher than 12.5 can lead to energy capping and FoF usage problems, you have a strong argument for Crit being worth more effective points when using Ascension.

    simply put, 1 point in haste is less effective than 1 point in crit after 12.5 energy per second.
    Last edited by sethg; 2012-12-31 at 11:16 PM.

  17. #17
    I don't think I said anything even remotely implying a disagreement with the difference between haste and crit, I was merely pointing out that saying FoF does not scale with haste is untrue because the very nature of it ending faster means less time of auto-attacks being disabled, which is a damage increase. Sure, it doesn't increase the FoF damage itself, but that's not really relevant to anything.

  18. #18
    So right now we are valuing hit cap > exp cap > crit > haste? One of the guides I've read valued haste > exp cap > crit and I'm starting to think that is not the case.

  19. #19
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Froyo View Post
    So right now we are valuing hit cap > exp cap > crit > haste? One of the guides I've read valued haste > exp cap > crit and I'm starting to think that is not the case.
    we had this before, the guides are simply not updated so far

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    I don't think I said anything even remotely implying a disagreement with the difference between haste and crit, I was merely pointing out that saying FoF does not scale with haste is untrue because the very nature of it ending faster means less time of auto-attacks being disabled, which is a damage increase. Sure, it doesn't increase the FoF damage itself, but that's not really relevant to anything.
    sure it is, prior to the change haste would enable you to get a 5th tick of FoF which added more damage to FoF (like any ranged channeled spell). This is no longer true since the 5th tick will always happen so the EP of haste dropped with or without ascension.

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