Dear Disney please for the love of GOD take SWTOR from EA

[Freeasacar]

Except it's not. And that this doesn't mesh with your reason that WoW is the cause of everything.

There are 3 games that launched with a sub, continue to have a sub, and have more or less grown since release.

WoW, EVE, and Rift

Those three games provide something unique, something engaging, and a combination of great service and/or something progressive against the rest of the market. Those three games alone are proof that subscriptions aren't dead. Sorry, not buying it.

You want to know the real reason all these games go free to play? Because it is easier. It's easier to make money with less effort. Easier to have pop in purchases from many different people. It's smart and lazy business.

I forgot about Rift. What you have to understand about that game is that it's pretty much just a WoW clone with a few different elements added in which makes it easier to ask for a sub for it because, well, WoW does. As for EVE, much like Runescape that game is a decade old now. It's players have always been used to paying subs and over a long period of time that sticks.

You honestly can't tell me that not even one of the MMOs that have converted to f2p recently haven't done so out of necessity. As I said, The Secret World listed Blizzard/Activision's monopoly on the market as the reason they switched over to the f2p model. Straight from the mouths of the developers.

P2p is dead.

[Osmeric]

You honestly can't tell me that not even one of the MMOs that have converted to f2p recently haven't done so out of necessity. As I said, The Secret World listed Blizzard/Activision's monopoly on the market as the reason they switched over to the f2p model. Straight from the mouths of the developers.

Tepid reviews and, well, Funcom, also had something to do with it.

[Edge-]

Tepid reviews and, well, Funcom, also had something to do with it.

Off topic: Nonexistent marketing budget and the fact that TSW is a very niche game that doesn't have any broad appeal were the biggest factors. That and their HORRIBLE internal sales/player retention projections. Like, whoever came up with them should be fired (1 million sales with 200k subs in 2 months or 400k sales/subs in 2 months...outrageous for the game).

On topic: P2P isn't "dead", it's just not a viable model if you're looking for broad appeal and success. Smaller scale games like Rift and EVE (they're on the large end of the "niche" markets) do well for themselves, and super-niche games like Perpetuum and Darkfall manage to stay running and receive updates as well with a subscription only model.

It's just that with a game the scope of SWTOR, the market really isn't there for another multi-million subscriber MMO unless they're delivering something spectacular/unique. SWTOR didn't really do that unfortunately, and it didn't pick up the pace quickly either, unfortunately.

P2P only is just too restrictive of a model to reach as large an audience as many games want to reach. So for games that have some moderate success but are looking for a boost, B2P/F2P/Freemium model is much more lucrative as it reaches a much larger audience and provides more potential avenues for monetization.

[katta]

People give Swtor alot of hate, but it's actually a good game. It just can't exist with wow. Too many people wouldnt play it because they looked at it as WoW's direct competition, and wow has sucked up most of the people that are interested in mmo's for the most part. Swtor on release was alot of fun. They put alot of work into it, and it showed. Disney could take it over and create the most stunning, incredible game ever created, and it still wouldn't have a shot.

It would make a great single player game but as an MMO its terrible.

They may have put alot of work into it but they didnt put any thinking into it to keep people playing it over the long haul.

[Mongoose19]

Man I would love someone (Disney?) to take over the SWTOR project and just FIX it. It was such a good game, liked it waaayyyy more than WoW. Surely if SWTOR gonna die there wont be another Star Wars MMO for atleast 5 years.

[katta]

Thank you so much for posting this.
My server is absolutely overflowing with activity. the game is fun, guilds are growing, our community is awesome.
It's an east coast server, and at 4 AM there are STILL tons of people in fleet and on planets.

People are enjoying the cartel items (adaptive armor ftw) and the server economy is booming.

The game is far from dying. Just because you want it to die for whatever messed up reasons you have, does not make it so.

The only reason servers are heavy to very heavy or full now is because they basically combined each server from 20 servers at launch.

Really at 4AM there are tons of people on your server? Do you really have to make up stuff just so you say something good about the game? Whats tons of people to you 200? To me tons is 4000 or more and there is no way there are 4000 people on your server at 4AM.

The magor use of the cartel market now is to get credits. If you think about it, if people wanted the items in the market so much then they wouldnt be putting them up on the GTN now would they? People are basically spending real money above their subs cost to earn them more ingame credits.

You dont want to see it but the game is dying (the MMO part). If you want to see for yourself just make a list of all the MMO features that were added in the last 3,6,9 months that did not cost subs anything. The list will not be as long as you think if you write it all down. Then make a list of all the items that were added that would cost subs additional money to get and that list will be longer than the first.

Remember when F2P was announced and the reasoning they gave for it. People were too scared of the price to purchase the game and of the 15 sub cost. So they made it F2P.

Now if that was really true then they would not have made the F2P players pay for basic stuff. Remember they were scared of the sub cost so give them the game for free and then they could realize that the sub was worth it. RIGHT?

Hey everyone up to level 50 is free no restrictions. We are able to do this because we know that once you play the game to level 50 you will see that the game is a fun game and will want to continue to play and see that the sub is worth it.

See that wouldnt hurt them one bit in money. The 1-50 content is over with and they dont have to add to it any more. No updates needed and any new development cost will be for after you reach 50. Instead they are trying to grab as much money as they can from people who just enter the game before they realize how the game actually is.

The team also doesnt care at all about the players or the game. All they care about is making the most money possible while doing the least amount of effort.

So yes the game is dead, its just some players in the game are still giving it CPR 9 months later.

[Deleted]

1) The only reason servers are heavy to very heavy or full now is because they basically combined each server from 20 servers at launch.

2) Really at 4AM there are tons of people on your server? Do you really have to make up stuff just so you say something good about the game? Whats tons of people to you 200? To me tons is 4000 or more and there is no way there are 4000 people on your server at 4AM.

3) The magor use of the cartel market now is to get credits. If you think about it, if people wanted the items in the market so much then they wouldnt be putting them up on the GTN now would they? People are basically spending real money above their subs cost to earn them more ingame credits.

4) You dont want to see it but the game is dying (the MMO part). If you want to see for yourself just make a list of all the MMO features that were added in the last 3,6,9 months that did not cost subs anything. The list will not be as long as you think if you write it all down. Then make a list of all the items that were added that would cost subs additional money to get and that list will be longer than the first.

5) Remember when F2P was announced and the reasoning they gave for it. People were too scared of the price to purchase the game and of the 15 sub cost. So they made it F2P. Now if that was really true then they would not have made the F2P players pay for basic stuff. Remember they were scared of the sub cost so give them the game for free and then they could realize that the sub was worth it. RIGHT?

Hey everyone up to level 50 is free no restrictions. We are able to do this because we know that once you play the game to level 50 you will see that the game is a fun game and will want to continue to play and see that the sub is worth it. See that wouldnt hurt them one bit in money. The 1-50 content is over with and they dont have to add to it any more. No updates needed and any new development cost will be for after you reach 50. Instead they are trying to grab as much money as they can from people who just enter the game before they realize how the game actually is.

6) The team also doesnt care at all about the players or the game. All they care about is making the most money possible while doing the least amount of effort.

7) So yes the game is dead, its just some players in the game are still giving it CPR 9 months later.

1) Very true. It's now been 4 months?

2) Not sure what server the guy is on but on mine (Red Eclipse) I've often found lots of players online at 3am. I've ran flashpoints at 4am often enough. At 3am weekdays I usually see over 100 players on my fleet. You go ahead and call the guy a liar though because your definition of tons differs from his.

3) I'd guess that's what a lot of people buy cartel packs for. A legit way to buy credits. I'm sure few would admit it though, lol.

4) The cartel shop is less than 2 months old. I'm going to wait til after Makeb comes out and BW let us know the 'new' content planned for us subscribers before crying. The cartel shop added some nice fluff. Fluff. FLUFF. Nothing I can't live without. I bought some pieces off the GTN and have still to shed a tear. Oh except the grade 7 ship parts, not sure who/why they dropped the ball on those. Again, I bought mine off the GTN but still.

5) I can't comment too much on the F2P as I happily pay for a sub. I can imagine it sucks. I have read that it sucks but I'll never try it so can't add my opinion on that.

6) In my opinion the developers are trying and working hard. I think the problem lies more with the management and the overall direction that management is leading the game in.

7) The game is dead to you. RIP. Some of us find enough enjoyment to keep paying/playing. In one year's time my guess is that TOR will still be here moreorless with the same numbers. I imagine Makeb and what they tell us about 'post-Makeb' will determine if the game dies this year. We'll see.

[katta]

1) Very true. It's now been 4 months?

2) Not sure what server the guy is on but on mine (Red Eclipse) I've often found lots of players online at 3am. I've ran flashpoints at 4am often enough. At 3am weekdays I usually see over 100 players on my fleet. You go ahead and call the guy a liar though because your definition of tons differs from his.

3) I'd guess that's what a lot of people buy cartel packs for. A legit way to buy credits. I'm sure few would admit it though, lol.

4) The cartel shop is less than 2 months old. I'm going to wait til after Makeb comes out and BW let us know the 'new' content planned for us subscribers before crying. The cartel shop added some nice fluff. Fluff. FLUFF. Nothing I can't live without. I bought some pieces off the GTN and have still to shed a tear. Oh except the grade 7 ship parts, not sure who/why they dropped the ball on those. Again, I bought mine off the GTN but still.

5) I can't comment too much on the F2P as I happily pay for a sub. I can imagine it sucks. I have read that it sucks but I'll never try it so can't add my opinion on that.

6) In my opinion the developers are trying and working hard. I think the problem lies more with the management and the overall direction that management is leading the game in.

7) The game is dead to you. RIP. Some of us find enough enjoyment to keep paying/playing. In one year's time my guess is that TOR will still be here moreorless with the same numbers. I imagine Makeb and what they tell us about 'post-Makeb' will determine if the game dies this year. We'll see.

1. 4 months? Didnt F2P start in late Nov? I could be wrong but thats only 2 months.

2. 100 people on fleet isnt a ton. When someone uses the expression a ton that to most people would imply that the servers would at least be above light status.

3. Wont go too much into it but being able to sell packs (bought with real money and not sub packs) onto the CM is credit selling.

4. Fluff? So the crystals are fluff and the space items are fluff? Yes space is a side game in SWTOR but you are able to get end game gear/items with the rewards correct? Thats not fluff at all.

5. That wasnt my point. Bioware's reasoning for making the game with a F2P model was because people were scared of the sub cost. Why would they make so many restrictions if that was the case? They made F2P so that some people would come back thinking they could finish the story lines and not have to pay a sub for it. Yes they dont have to pay a sub but to actually play the game it would cost more than a sub as F2P. Its all just nickle and dime style. That will not get people back it will just let EA make more money while milking the game.

6. I would agree that management is the biggest problem but you cant let the other guys off for all the bugs that are continued to be released. Yes bugs will always happen but it hasnt seemed to be any better than before. Can you blame management for the problem with boosts from the CM not lasting the entire time? Can you blame management for unlocks not working correctly? No, you cant you have to blame the team.

7. It probable will have the same numbers in a year. Thats why its dead. F2P didnt bring in any new players. All it did was allow EA to get more than the 15 bucks a month from its subs. The people still there will be there until its shut down, no matter what the conditions are. So for a game to go from 2 million players in the first month to a 1/10 of that in less than a year and not ever showing any growth at all just means the game is on life support. Thats all.

[Deleted]

If it was going to be picked up by Disney, they would keep the game as it is and then have another developer take a shot at making a Star Wars mmo, it is a shame as I was way excited that ToR was announced but it isn't the MMO for me.

[Deleted]

1. 4 months? Didnt F2P start in late Nov? I could be wrong but thats only 2 months.

2. 100 people on fleet isnt a ton. When someone uses the expression a ton that to most people would imply that the servers would at least be above light status.

3. Wont go too much into it but being able to sell packs (bought with real money and not sub packs) onto the CM is credit selling.

4. Fluff? So the crystals are fluff and the space items are fluff? Yes space is a side game in SWTOR but you are able to get end game gear/items with the rewards correct? Thats not fluff at all.

5. That wasnt my point. Bioware's reasoning for making the game with a F2P model was because people were scared of the sub cost. Why would they make so many restrictions if that was the case? They made F2P so that some people would come back thinking they could finish the story lines and not have to pay a sub for it. Yes they dont have to pay a sub but to actually play the game it would cost more than a sub as F2P. Its all just nickle and dime style. That will not get people back it will just let EA make more money while milking the game.

6. I would agree that management is the biggest problem but you cant let the other guys off for all the bugs that are continued to be released. Yes bugs will always happen but it hasnt seemed to be any better than before. Can you blame management for the problem with boosts from the CM not lasting the entire time? Can you blame management for unlocks not working correctly? No, you cant you have to blame the team.

7. It probable will have the same numbers in a year. Thats why its dead. F2P didnt bring in any new players. All it did was allow EA to get more than the 15 bucks a month from its subs. The people still there will be there until its shut down, no matter what the conditions are. So for a game to go from 2 million players in the first month to a 1/10 of that in less than a year and not ever showing any growth at all just means the game is on life support. Thats all.

1) You mentioned the servers being merged compared to launch. Last merge was 4 months ago. I know the F2P was November 15th but the servers were merged last 4 months ago.

2) No, you can't go deciding what 'ton' means for each person. I was saying for me, at 3am seeing 100 players on the fleet is a ton.

3) Agree. A lot of people buy packs to 'buy credits'. Not everyone obviously but I'm sure a lot do. A lot also use their 'free' monthly stipend of 500 coins to buy cartel items to then sell on the GTN.

4) Too late. Check out my post again and you'll see I already made the exception of the space parts. The crystals cost so little (41's I mean) that all that changes is the colour, hence fluff. If you want i'll slap them with the space parts. Pets, armor, vehicles, holograms...fluff. Harmless and a bit of fun for some.

5) I very much doubt the current F2P model will remain unchanged. If smart they'll keep adapting it to further please the masses. I'm not an expert on F2P as I've been subscribing for over 8yrs to MMO's and I can't ever see myself needing to look for a cheaper option. Hence I'm no expert on this point.

6) QA is shocking yup yup. Developers? I'm not so sure. It's easy to fire on those who can't answer back so I'll let you do that for us.

7) Ah TOR is an example, maybe the biggest, of squandered potential. Money, Time, Talent (BW). The output is light years away from what it could have been imo. It's still bloody fun to me and my full server so while the numbers on my server last and while I keep enjoying logging in to raid or pvp i'm not too bothered. I repeat, my server is full. Has been for 4 months. It sure doesn't feel dead as of Jan 2013. We'll see after Makeb I guess.

[katta]

1) You mentioned the servers being merged compared to launch. Last merge was 4 months ago. I know the F2P was November 15th but the servers were merged last 4 months ago.

2) No, you can't go deciding what 'ton' means for each person. I was saying for me, at 3am seeing 100 players on the fleet is a ton.

3) Agree. A lot of people buy packs to 'buy credits'. Not everyone obviously but I'm sure a lot do. A lot also use their 'free' monthly stipend of 500 coins to buy cartel items to then sell on the GTN.

4) Too late. Check out my post again and you'll see I already made the exception of the space parts. The crystals cost so little (41's I mean) that all that changes is the colour, hence fluff. If you want i'll slap them with the space parts. Pets, armor, vehicles, holograms...fluff. Harmless and a bit of fun for some.

5) I very much doubt the current F2P model will remain unchanged. If smart they'll keep adapting it to further please the masses. I'm not an expert on F2P as I've been subscribing for over 8yrs to MMO's and I can't ever see myself needing to look for a cheaper option. Hence I'm no expert on this point.

6) QA is shocking yup yup. Developers? I'm not so sure. It's easy to fire on those who can't answer back so I'll let you do that for us.

7) Ah TOR is an example, maybe the biggest, of squandered potential. Money, Time, Talent (BW). The output is light years away from what it could have been imo. It's still bloody fun to me and my full server so while the numbers on my server last and while I keep enjoying logging in to raid or pvp i'm not too bothered. I repeat, my server is full. Has been for 4 months. It sure doesn't feel dead as of Jan 2013. We'll see after Makeb I guess.

(1) yes the servers were merged 4 months or so ago but they also started to drop down to only reaching heavy before F2P hit. So with merging servers and adding F2P they are able to now get about 15 of the servers very heavy to full.

(2) Yes, I actually can. When you want to give the general public a description of something you cant use words and change what they imply. Thats like saying you ran a marathon in 1 hour. Well to everyone a marathon is 26.2 miles but to you a 1/4 marathon is a marathon. All he was trying to do is mislead people.

(6) They could fire back but they never did. Only reason I post here is because I cant post on the SWTOR forums. A place where they also didnt fire back at me.

[Deleted]

(1) yes the servers were merged 4 months or so ago but they also started to drop down to only reaching heavy before F2P hit. So with merging servers and adding F2P they are able to now get about 15 of the servers very heavy to full.

Sorry but Torstatus reports 19 servers between 1.5 to 2.6 and one at 0.6.
light = 1, standard = 2, heavy = 3,very heavy = 4, full = 5 so none of the servers is heavy or full according to montlhy stats. Only 10 of them peak at 4 or close to 5 but only for an hour during a day.

So yes, people are playing the game, but from avarage 0.5-1.5 population status when they had 200 servers to 1.5-2.6 when they went down to 20 servers.

[Aeka]

Just let it die and maybe Disney will use their boatload of cash to pay a developer to make a Star Wars MMO thats actually good!

This.

EA has SWTOR per whatever terms LucasArts made with them and Bioware.

The flaws in this game are so severe that it needs nothing short of a redesign of every single in game zone; that has been done, but would only be worth it if the game had been succesful. No, Disney needs to start over from scratch, with the first step being that no one involved with SWTOR should be involved in the creation of a new MMO.

[Vulgrym]

People give Swtor alot of hate, but it's actually a good game. It just can't exist with wow. Too many people wouldnt play it because they looked at it as WoW's direct competition, and wow has sucked up most of the people that are interested in mmo's for the most part. Swtor on release was alot of fun. They put alot of work into it, and it showed. Disney could take it over and create the most stunning, incredible game ever created, and it still wouldn't have a shot.

That is utter crap. I would have been more than happy to shell out $$ for it concurrent with everything else I have going on.

I grew up loving SW, they just had to make a semi-decent game. I raided the Ops, grinded the Valor Ranks past 70. It was all just very subpar, not just to WoW but to other direct competition. For instance, I'd turn to Rift for raiding or GW2 for PvP.

I really hope Disney does what you suggest. I'd check it out again in a heartbeat.

[Aeka]

People give Swtor alot of hate, but it's actually a good game. It just can't exist with wow. Too many people wouldnt play it because they looked at it as WoW's direct competition, and wow has sucked up most of the people that are interested in mmo's for the most part. Swtor on release was alot of fun. They put alot of work into it, and it showed. Disney could take it over and create the most stunning, incredible game ever created, and it still wouldn't have a shot.

Wrong. It is not a good game. SWTOR is a badly designed multiply flawed game whose defects are staggering once people get past the IP thrill. The impact WoW had and continues to have on SWTOR is as a comparison of a well-designed game with an attention to details and a spirit of fun, up-to-date in 2013, as to SWTOR which plays like an MMO from 2004. WoW is an example of how to do things right, SWTOR is a guidebook on how to screwup an MMO with one of the most promising IPs of all time.

Hate? Yes, it gets a lot of hate, but deservedly so. It killed off an ongoing MMO, and then it did a horrible job of with one of the most beloved IPs in existence. It received fawning press and absurdly positive reviews by people who didn't spend the time to see the flaws, and, really, they practically had to be blind to miss them. The outright lies and broken promises from BW and EA.

But it gets far more than hate. It gets proper criticism for its many, many failings. About the only people who wanted this game to fail were the managment of other MMOs. Most of us who signed on had only the highest hopes for it. And anywhere from 2 out of 3 of us, to 3/4's or more of us who tried this game found it lacking and left.

This game didn't fail because of WoW. It failed on its own merits.

[Arlee]

Hate to be the one to point it out but, if a game is good or not is entirely subjective.

[Wilian]

2) No, you can't go deciding what 'ton' means for each person. I was saying for me, at 3am seeing 100 players on the fleet is a ton.

I can atleast. Ton is a term used to descript something that's roughly 1000 of something, be it weight translated from pounds to kilos, liquids from gallons to liters (Their most common usage) and so forth.

Derivate usage in Finland refers to money unit where "tonni" stands for 1000 euros.

[Gsara]

If 120 million dollars wasn't enough money to make a good SW mmo then there will never be one.

edit: My point being that money wasn't the issue with swtor.

Yeah and that 120m doesnt even include marketing which is estimated to be around another 100m.

EA most likely has another 4 years or so on their contract as well, but Disney could buy it out Im sure if they thought it was worth it. (it's not)

[Deleted]

I'm quite enjoying my stroll through F2P right now but yeah this thing feels like a beta test.

That said it does succeed in giving players a compelling story far better than wow ever has or could. It both benefits and suffers from Bioware's path progression in games. If you imagine it as a single player game its actually pretty good, but as an MMO, it fails.

I can see Disney letting it slide and probably scrapping the mmo idea altogether. We'll probably get an endless stream of games like Force unleashed and terrible cash in's like "star wars cricket."

[Osmeric]

I can see Disney letting it slide and probably scrapping the mmo idea altogether. We'll probably get an endless stream of games like Force unleashed and terrible cash in's like "star wars cricket."

Disney seems to be moving in a more Skylanders direction, it looks like.