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  1. #261
    Scarab Lord Karizee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Its a stupid point? the average joe doesnt mean clueless it means they dont have the time and or inclination to form a good team and get involved in communication, or that they dont havee the abilities to be able to pull off tactics as displayed in karizees video. to lump average joe in with the untrained or uniformed was mever my intention. analogies rarely ever get pulled off well, yours is a good example of it not working.

    If this "average joe" doesn't have enough time or inclination to make a tanky build to solo and harass players and keep them from scoring points, he probably doesn't have the time or inclination to make a viable dungeon build either.

    If this "average joe" doesn't have enough time or inclination to group up with a small team he probably doesn't have time to make an arena team on WoW, is probably not interested in pvp anyway.

    But think about what you're saying about this zerg for a minute. Ok, we have a zerg, this big massive rolling ball of death - but WAIT! It can only be on one place on the map at a time. The map is HUGE, it's GINORMOUS, it's a BEAST of a map. The matches last for a full week, people are zoning in and out of WvW all the time. They do not zone in directly to the zerg's location, they have to find them first.

    All these players, looking for this zerg. All these opportunities for small pvp play.
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  2. #262
    Titan draykorinee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karizee View Post
    If this "average joe" doesn't have enough time or inclination to make a tanky build to solo and harass players and keep them from scoring points, he probably doesn't have the time or inclination to make a viable dungeon build either.

    If this "average joe" doesn't have enough time or inclination to group up with a small team he probably doesn't have time to make an arena team on WoW, is probably not interested in pvp anyway.

    But think about what you're saying about this zerg for a minute. Ok, we have a zerg, this big massive rolling ball of death - but WAIT! It can only be on one place on the map at a time. The map is HUGE, it's GINORMOUS, it's a BEAST of a map. The matches last for a full week, people are zoning in and out of WvW all the time. They do not zone in directly to the zerg's location, they have to find them first.

    All these players, looking for this zerg. All these opportunities for small pvp play.
    i dont disagree, the average joe is the person who runs in to balinda like a sheep when its been specifically called out that the alliance are defending. they have little tactical awareness nor any inclination to deviate. i really wasnt trying to make much of a point but watching your videos doesnt give the impression i had of the general wvwvw populace.

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    i dont disagree, the average joe is the person who runs in to balinda like a sheep when its been specifically called out that the alliance are defending. they have little tactical awareness nor any inclination to deviate. i really wasnt trying to make much of a point but watching your videos doesnt give the impression i had of the general wvwvw populace.
    So of course you assume that your impression is the correct one... (regardless of what the correct impression is, even if yours actually is)...I'd say that says more about you than the general population.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    Yeah, Rhandric is right, as usual.

  4. #264
    Titan draykorinee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhandric View Post
    So of course you assume that your impression is the correct one... (regardless of what the correct impression is, even if yours actually is)...I'd say that says more about you than the general population.
    I think everyone bases their posts on their own impressions when no evidence is available to support either side. i dont
    make an assumption im correct because of my anecdotal and often outdated information i just state my impression. seeing as my impression was that to the average joe its a zerg and most people have offered supportive posts i dont think im too off the mark.
    Last edited by draykorinee; 2013-01-17 at 09:59 PM.

  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    I think everyone bases their posts on their own impressions when no evidence is available to support either side. i dont
    make an assumption im correct because of my anecdotal and often outdated information i just state my impression. seeing as my impression was that to the average joe its a zerg and most people have offered supportive posts i dont think im too off the mark.
    The "problem" here is that the uninitiated may say that wvw is a zerg due to it being a lot easier to spot.
    Look on the map for a commander=> found the zerg.
    Finding the "smaller" non zerg groups is pretty hard since they don't want/need to show commander status.

    Zergs also "get work done" with this I mean taking garison/keeps that are defended pretty well. While the non-zergs play an entire different games. They either cap supply camps, grab easy/undefended towers or kill dolyaks/sentries.

    Basically it's like saying in wow arena is "just killing people"... Since for people who don't spend a lot of time in arena it really is.

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Its a stupid point? the average joe doesnt mean clueless it means they dont have the time and or inclination to form a good team and get involved in communication, or that they dont havee the abilities to be able to pull off tactics as displayed in karizees video. to lump average joe in with the untrained or uniformed was mever my intention. analogies rarely ever get pulled off well, yours is a good example of it not working.
    Not a stupid point but still not what is true, even tho is true. Which was explained by Meledion.

    WvW isn't a zerg and that's a fact. Zerg is what players make of it and you are free to enter or not.
    If our nice Joe wants to WvW and doesn't have time or inclination to form team he has several ways to bypass that.
    Not playing (duh),
    playing on zergs (that regardless is effective and even fun),
    finding a group (and that's just regardless of time and inclination or builds: Doesn't take 1min to ask on map for a smaller group I've done a few times (not much into big zergs), Doesn't take 1 hour to actually find a guild that is focused in WvW and then you have the means to learn, zerg, small strike forces and eventually make friends, I mean why not add that small group you enjoyed playing and ask for a re-do.)
    Going Solo

    I have done all of them. Didn't take a good team, didn't take communication outside of gw2. I'm not Joe but it doesn't take much to do those just a little initiative.

    But as I said. Not stupid, not truth but still true.

    The game doesn't actually help you anywhere there which makes it true and makes Joe sad, so I can see where you come from. But is still not true because Idk, if you like a game, you buy something, you put time (no matter how much) I think eventually you will understand that it doesn't really happen without that kind of thought. And Gw2 is very good at jump in - jump out action even in WvW.

    Note: I think that Anet is taking a good step when they said

    "We are to encourage people to defend, to get involved, to break away from large mass mentality of zerging
    Reward the individual player for what they are doing rather than contribute scoring via server"

    If this comes to be true. I think alot of what we are talking will be pointless...Im hoping lol.

  7. #267
    Banned Lazuli's Avatar
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    Most of WvW is zerg, but even if I wanted to join them I can't because ANet hates nvidia and refuses to optimize towards them. 10FPS ain't fun.

    I run with small strike forces and they are pretty fun, when an ele is with us I can just cluster his water AoE and heal us to full. We've taken on 10+ people and won many times, nothing pro but still something to brag about. It's ridiculous how much you can get done by simply calling out a target and everyone pressing T > blowing that target the fuck up. >quickness stomp on demand (and people don't like rangers?) I capture points all day like it's nothin. Being in vent/TS/whatever is the only way to play competitive, so don't complain about it being a zerg when you aren't doing what is necessary for it to be strategic which is also grouping with 4 other friends.

    It's like going hotjoin spvp and complaining no strategy is involved. Durr. Just remember zergs are most likely not in vent, not coordinated, target random enemies and are the least bit organized as could possibly be.

  8. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lazuli View Post
    Most of WvW is zerg, but even if I wanted to join them I can't because ANet hates nvidia and refuses to optimize towards them. 10FPS ain't fun.

    I run with small strike forces and they are pretty fun, when an ele is with us I can just cluster his water AoE and heal us to full. We've taken on 10+ people and won many times, nothing pro but still something to brag about. It's ridiculous how much you can get done by simply calling out a target and everyone pressing T > blowing that target the fuck up. >quickness stomp on demand (and people don't like rangers?) I capture points all day like it's nothin. Being in vent/TS/whatever is the only way to play competitive, so don't complain about it being a zerg when you aren't doing what is necessary for it to be strategic which is also grouping with 4 other friends.

    It's like going hotjoin spvp and complaining no strategy is involved. Durr. Just remember zergs are most likely not in vent, not coordinated, target random enemies and are the least bit organized as could possibly be.
    Your statement regarding bad nvidia optimisation is false, I run wvw just fine on a 570m which is equivalent ta a nvidia 460 desktop version and gw2 is more cpu bound than gpu bound like most mmos out there.

  9. #269
    Scarab Lord Karizee's Avatar
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    Quaggan Zerg!

    Valar morghulis

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Those kind of stories don't change the design, though. They're the exception, same as in WvW.
    yeah tell this to yourself, all I do (with 3 or 4 guildies) is running around in very small groups and fighting small battles. Even when we meet a zerg it's possible to fight the smaller battles, just keep those out of sight of the core-group. You won't believe how easy it is to lure 2-3 people away from a zerg.

    so my experience is 80% no zerg, and everybody is responsible for his own experience. You don't want to zerg? --> go away from the zerg. Small camps behind enemy lines are rarely zerged.

  11. #271
    Elemental Lord Spl4sh3r's Avatar
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    MMO's are only fun if you have a real active guilds with friends (either RL ones or online ones). Without that no MMO will ever be good after you get past the initial new game feeling.

  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by Spl4sh3r View Post
    MMO's are only fun if you have a real active guilds with friends (either RL ones or online ones). Without that no MMO will ever be good after you get past the initial new game feeling.
    I pretty much agree with this.

    MMOs are vastly inferior to single player games if you take the social element out of the game.

  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    WvW is mostly a zerg. I don't know why people try so hard to deny this. I don't even know why it's taken as some kind of slam on the game, it's how the system is designed. Like any other "Big force vs. Big force" thing in games, often it feels zergy. It's unavoidable.

    Yeah, on the better servers when there's multiple commanders the forces get split up a little, but 1/3rd of a zerg is still pretty zergy.

    It's just how the system is designed. Can move more supply around to targets, take things down faster, handle resistance better, etc etc.

    Everyone has a tale about the time that five guys held a point against thirty zerglings or something. Same as any other game, I can tell you all kinds of stories about how me and my wife held a tower against a bunch of alliance zergs, or somehow managed to wipe their entire raid at Galv luckily. Or the times when a few people held a zone line against an opposing raid force in EverQuest. Or a single bard destroying an entire raid. (Ok, that last one was actually pretty common.)

    Those kind of stories don't change the design, though. They're the exception, same as in WvW.
    I think the point here is that. No one is denying the existence of zerg, it exists and it's always there. The problem is when people complain (and they often do) about it without checking/knowing/etc that the game is in fact as zergy as you make it. It's not exception, both are strong and alive and are not mutually exclusive and of course one will notice a big zerg much more often than small strike forces not only because of the commander title but also because small strike forces are supposed to be "unknown" or it becomes a zerg too.

    Both are effective and needed. As even the devs stated it would be way more logical to split into small mini zergs and conquer everything than just a big zerg. But that's how players like it, that's how they think they are doing best and why not that's also how they have fun...

    Nothing to do with design, stories or whatever else you put here. The design is simply a large scale battle and with multiple goals at once (much more than many other mmos offer), which should help with the "zerg problem" but yet coming from those games you are so eager to talk about, it's just the wrong mindset, because then of course one shall complain about those (not saying you specifically tho)

    Soon individual progression will come, AoEs will be nerfed. How soon I have no idea really but I think these features on top of what we have definitely enhances the vision that's already there but it's just misjudged.

    ------------------------

    Quote Originally Posted by Spl4sh3r View Post
    MMO's are only fun if you have a real active guilds with friends (either RL ones or online ones). Without that no MMO will ever be good after you get past the initial new game feeling.
    I agree. But recently more and more that's been optional I think... it def makes it more enjoyable but as gw2 shows you can go either way respecting how you want to play since the design is to be less griefly possible. XD Some like the game as a single player experience, some like it as a broad social experience and then there is the ones in the middle.

    So if you want to play alone but even surrounded by people you can. If you want to make some friends you can, and so on...

  14. #274
    Well, I guess that goes to show how antisocial I am. :P I typically only play MMOs with 1-2 other people. I don't like to join guilds because random people tend to annoy me, so I end up turning off guild chat and never getting to know anyone anyway.

  15. #275
    The Patient
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    If you like a poorly designed and boring combat system, monotonous WvW that just puts you to sleep, and want nothing to do with well designed encounters then GW2 is the game for you. If you want anything beyond a grind that ends the day you turn 80 because your character can't advance anymore, then don't play GW2. It's not a game for people who want to challenge themselves and advance their character. Worst $60 Iv'e ever spent and most overhyped game since DNF.

  16. #276
    GW2 is a great casual game. You don't feel like you HAVE to play because you have a subscription ticking away or anything.
    There is no forced march pvp gear grind making you spend hours upon hours to remain viable.

    If only ranged had to aim it would be an even better game.
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  17. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    If only ranged had to aim it would be an even better game.
    GW2 combat mod:



    It seems it's not illegal either:
    Quote Originally Posted by Reddit-Thread about Combat mod for GW2
    Is Combat Mode Legal?
    Forum Mods have said in the past that all 3rd party mods are illegal, however this is not the case. As Gaile Gray, a dev at Arena Net explains here

    . Its not that they dont approve of mods, its that they dont have the time and resources to approve of each specific mod, and dont want to be held responsible if a mod has malicious code and something goes wrong. Mods are not allowed if they alter game files, or automate any action. Combat Mode does neither of these, it just alters the keys your mouse sends to the game client, and every click performs a 1:1 action in game. Mods that give the user and advantage are also illegal, but as many have pointed out, Combat Mode gives a slight disadvantage if anything, as you cant put Ground target abilities out of LoS or directly behind your character.
    That's AN's official and highest authority response on the matter. If you're not comfortable using CM for any reason, DO NOT USE IT.
    http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/c...ombat_mode_11/

    I haven't tried it myself, has anyone here?

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by Maarius View Post
    GW2 combat mod:
    *snip
    Well. That's what I am downloading for the next time I play.
    It's not as good as firefall ranged combat buts its hellavulot closer.
    Now if firefall could get melee in their game like Gw2's melee...
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  19. #279
    Well firefall is an fps, not sure you want melee in that (I hate melee in first person view).

    I'm not really bothered by GW2 having tab target. The nice thing about system is that you don't need to have a target selected to hit them. It's what I liked about AoC's combat as well. I think the hybrid combat works pretty well.

  20. #280
    Quote Originally Posted by Rorcanna View Post
    I recommended and sold it EXTREMELY much to a few friends, and they've all been at me for this. They were, at the time, tired of WoW so I assumed GW2 would give them MMO gameplay together and keep them busy. I was wrong...they all came back to WoW before too long.

    So no, I wouldn't.

    I would however and still do recommend it to people wanting an mmo, just like I recommend them to try rift and wow and tera to find the one they prefer.
    I think it's because so many people that went from WoW to GW2 have that "WoW-mentality". They expect it to be like just like WoW. I've had friends pick up GW2 because they were bored with WoW, then complain about trivial things. If people come into GW2, and not expect it to be like WoW or any other MMO, they will be more pleased, I think.

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