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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Hallu View Post
    I don't know where some people here get the idea that Surv AOE is somehow awesome. Because it isn't, you still get dwarfed by DK, Mage and Ele AOE.

    Yes Surv AOE ignores the AOE cap, but please name 1 fight where that is happening. Nope you can't. And the very first trash in MSV does not count.
    Surv still has great AOE, he lacks single target dmg tho.

  2. #22
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Beoren View Post
    Surv still has great AOE, he lacks single target dmg tho.
    I don't think Survival is lacking in Single target fights the difference between BM and SV isnt that huge.

  3. #23
    On trash pulls it's pretty funny how much damage you can do with barrage, explosive trap and SS multi shots. I wish they would lower barrage cast time to 2 seconds and make it more of a frontal cone aoe instead of a "shoot the entire room" aoe. That would make it more viable for people to take and give all the classes a reliable cleave if they wanted to take it for fights

  4. #24
    Hunters will remain the Locks of Mists. They might revise the class for the next expansion, but until then we are screwed.

  5. #25
    Ghostcrawler has proven time and time again that he has absolutely no idea what they are doing with the Hunter class.

    Before 5.1 Ghostcrawler stated that the fixes to Marksman were going to be enough to make Marksman Hunters effective in PvP. The community looked at the changes and went, "it is a good start. But Aimed Shot is still going to hit like a wet noodle." Sure enough 5.1 hits and Marksman is not even in the same ballpark as Beast Mastery in PvP.

    For whatever reason Ghostcrawler and other developers have made it a point to completely ignore the community and the ones who actually PLAY the classes. Ghostcrawler's typical response is "Well, we have access to more reliable spreadsheets than the community has access to." Which I find to be absolutely amazing considering certain voices in each community are usually a bit more correct than Blizzard.

    I have been playing a Hunter since April of '05, a few things I have gathered over the years...

    Hunters WILL ALWAYS be overpowered in Battlegrounds because of the way our class is designed. We have always ruled Battlegrounds and we always will. It is difficult to counter a class that has an AoE slow, consistent damage and a pet in an open map; however, this does not mean we are relevant in Arena. Since Burning Crusade if you've focused Hunters you've been able to take them out.

    Hunters will ALWAYS be disrespected in PvE. Not sure why this is, our class is no more easier than Rogues, Warrior or Death Knights. However, we will never be held to similar standards. When we top the charts it's because we're Hunters, not because we know our class inside and out.

    Lastly, the developers have proven SO many times that Hunters have absolutely no direction. I'm 100% sure if Blizzard could redo things we wouldn't even be a class. No other class has been rebuilt as many times as Hunters have. Not by a long shot.

    Sorry for ranting and rambling but the Devs lately have been getting on my nerves. As for having too many buttons, use macros. It sucks but oh well.

  6. #26
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    Hunters will remain the Locks of Mists. They might revise the class for the next expansion, but until then we are screwed.
    What do you mean by screwed? We're not in a bad place.

  7. #27
    Bloodsail Admiral Imbashiethz's Avatar
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    I am so fking tired of my hunter. 90% of damage from my pet and forced to play the spec to be competetive in PVP. It really sucks. They need to make pvp changes to MM and survival. They are fixing rogues, fix hunters.

  8. #28
    Deleted
    I don't like the idea of changing glyphs/specs for single/aoe fights but that's probably just me. I would remove the fervor/DB/TotH tier and maybe make Toth or something similar baseline (or a smaller MS focus cost). One of the reasons why I always like when surv is the best single target spec is because it is already the best multi target spec which makes us really powerful all around.
    Also this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Beoren View Post
    -Buff MM the spec has a huge community both in PVE and PVP and currently the spec is plain useless
    -Buff SV single target abit (i'd buff Black Arrow's dmg and/or ES)
    -Buff BM's Beast Cleave
    -Remove/Reduce the ridiculous amount of AMoC's focus cost like the did with Unholy's Gargoyle.
    -Replace PowerShot talent
    Last edited by mmoce2532cddcf; 2013-01-05 at 11:56 PM.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Joyful View Post
    What do you mean by screwed? We're not in a bad place.
    i kinda want to know aht a bad place for you would be. Right now warlocks in equal gear are about 30% ahead of hunters on a single target fight. Dks Mage Locks and even boomkins beat the snot out of hunters in AoE, Rogues DKs warriors and mages all crush hunters on cleave fights.

    There is no fight in any current raid right now where hunters are cappable of being top DPS. Hunters are not at the bottom, but at the same time we are not close to the top either, on top of that BM has the hardest opening ever put into the game and it has more buttons then every other class/spec currently in game that must be used to perform optimal damage.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemesis003 View Post
    i kinda want to know aht a bad place for you would be. Right now warlocks in equal gear are about 30% ahead of hunters on a single target fight. Dks Mage Locks and even boomkins beat the snot out of hunters in AoE, Rogues DKs warriors and mages all crush hunters on cleave fights.

    There is no fight in any current raid right now where hunters are cappable of being top DPS. Hunters are not at the bottom, but at the same time we are not close to the top either, on top of that BM has the hardest opening ever put into the game and it has more buttons then every other class/spec currently in game that must be used to perform optimal damage.
    http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overa...14/60/default/

    BM hunters seem to be doing fine. Maybe it isn't the opener that is an issue maybe it's just the player.

  11. #31
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemesis003 View Post
    i kinda want to know aht a bad place for you would be. Right now warlocks in equal gear are about 30% ahead of hunters on a single target fight. Dks Mage Locks and even boomkins beat the snot out of hunters in AoE, Rogues DKs warriors and mages all crush hunters on cleave fights.

    There is no fight in any current raid right now where hunters are cappable of being top DPS. Hunters are not at the bottom, but at the same time we are not close to the top either, on top of that BM has the hardest opening ever put into the game and it has more buttons then every other class/spec currently in game that must be used to perform optimal damage.
    Ohh comon, the dps isn't bad at all, we're not 30% behind locks, our dps IS fine. And the opening of a BM hunter, is never changing, so you just need to learn it and it is done, nothing else, not that hard, IMO.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Xeraxis View Post
    http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overa...14/60/default/

    BM hunters seem to be doing fine. Maybe it isn't the opener that is an issue maybe it's just the player.
    yeah raid bots is about useless... please do go find me where hutners are in the top 25 on any heroic fight currently in game... The thing is you can;t. There is no fight in game where hunters can actually be top DPS.

    30% was a bit of an exageration, but 15% is not. Right now in my gear my max DPS single target is 111.7k Wrrlocks in Ilvl 500 gear can easily do 130k.

    As long is there is a larger then 10% gap between pure DPS is not OK.

    You cannot honestly say you are happy being middle of the pack DPS when that is all you bring to the table....

  13. #33
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemesis003 View Post
    yeah raid bots is about useless... please do go find me where hutners are in the top 25 on any heroic fight currently in game... The thing is you can;t. There is no fight in game where hunters can actually be top DPS.
    You seem to be one of those people who stares at recount during the whole fight while standing in fire, drooling over the numbers.

    How good a class is isn't determined by how many heroic fights they are top DPS on. Hunters are able to do a ton of things to help out a raid because they are a ranged DPS class with lots of control which doesn't suffer from moving. The amount of utility and tricks they bring to a raid is enormous.

    Not only that, our DPS is fine. We're not talking about a 10% gap but a gap where a few lucky or unlucky crits make the difference. Sims are terrible for comparing classes directly to eachother. And in logs the classes who benefit the most from good RNG are going to end up dominating. If you are 10% below the rest of your raid you need to take a good look at yourself instead of pointing at logs and blaming the class.
    Last edited by mmoc973e6c390d; 2013-01-06 at 11:30 AM. Reason: Holy typos batman. I need to stop using forums just after waking up.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovan View Post
    You seem to be one of those people who stares at recount during the whole fight while standing in fire, drooling over the numbers.

    How good a class is isn't determined by how many heroic fights they are top DPS on. Hunters are able to do a ton of things to help out a raid because they are a ranged DPS class with lots of control which doesn't suffer from moving. The amount of utility and tricks they bring to a raid is enormous.

    Not only that, our DPS is fine. We're not talking about a 10% gap but a gap where a few lucky or unlucky crits make the difference. Sims are terrible for comparing classes directly to eachother. And in logs the classes who benefit the most from good RNG are going to end up dominating. If you are 10% below the rets of your raid you need to take a good luck at yourself instead of pointing at logs and blaming the class.
    never crossed your mind that you play with lower end players??


    I rank on fights more often then i don't just like all the memebers of my guild. If everyone is within the top 200 DPS in their class on a fight and on the same fight say Lei Shi as its a high movement fight which hunters are able to excel on and a warlock does 122k and i do 109k and we goth have roughly the same quality gear then its class imbalance.

    There is no high enough of a movement fight where hunter mobility actually is an advantage. Every fight mages and warlocks can do everything hunters can do while doing more damage. In raid fights there is very little need for control and other classes can do the same amount if not more control more reliably.

    when you get a bit more above raid finder level gear you will see how the gap widens. Hunter DPS seems fine when you do normals and the occational MSV heroic, but when you need everyone doing 110k+ on heroic garalon you trim he classes that simply cannot produce.

    Here is another prime example. Look at 25 heroic Imerpial, one of the best fights for a hunter due to its movement and the fact that pets have a near 100% uptime. Number one is a warlock, the most geared non asain hunter in the world is Truefire of blood legion and hes nearly 22k DPS behind him, you cannot count that asain hunter because they have access to higher ilvl gear then EU and US players. Not to mention that is the closest gap between the top hunter and top DPS on a fight. You claim that a 22k DPS gap between the best geared and one of the most skilled hunters in the world and a warlock makes the hunter class fine?

    Look at Heroic Bladelord again more then 20k DPS gap between the top warlock and top hunter, Heroic Garalon top DK is 213k top hunter is 141. But according to someone with almost no heroic experiance hunters are fine. Yep a 60k DPS gap between hunters and DKs is acceptable, and in heroic everyone has to kite at some point, so don't try tossing out that excuse.

  15. #35
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemesis003 View Post
    yeah raid bots is about useless... please do go find me where hutners are in the top 25 on any heroic fight currently in game... The thing is you can;t. There is no fight in game where hunters can actually be top DPS.
    Raidbots is not useless, it checks the average of the top 100 ranked players on the 25HC bosses, meaning it paints actually a very good picture how it is.


    Hunters are fine, if you are a good player, even in a good guild, you can top the meters. Stop overreaction.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovan View Post
    Hunters are able to do a ton of things to help out a raid because they are a ranged DPS class with lots of control which doesn't suffer from moving. The amount of utility and tricks they bring to a raid is enormous.
    misdirection and frost traps = huge utility

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Joyful View Post
    Raidbots is not useless, it checks the average of the top 100 ranked players on the 25HC bosses, meaning it paints actually a very good picture how it is.


    Hunters are fine, if you are a good player, even in a good guild, you can top the meters. Stop overreaction.
    then do explain why there is no hunter anywhere in the world with a top 10 parse???

    Before you trying to fumble through an answer its because hunters are not capable of being number 1 when there is an equally geared and skilled warlock, mage, DK, or warrior in the raid group. Even raid bots will tell you that.

  18. #38
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemesis003 View Post
    then do explain why there is no hunter anywhere in the world with a top 10 parse???
    The same reason there's a LOT of classes that don't have a top 10 parse, it just isn't possible to balance it so each class got one top 11 rank each.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Joyful View Post
    The same reason there's a LOT of classes that don't have a top 10 parse, it just isn't possible to balance it so each class got one top 11 rank each.
    so its ok for a class like a warlock to have the top spot in the majority of the fight? Its not that it isn't possible its that the devs are too lazy to get it done. If you look at very fight and see that 1 or more classes best DPS is more then 20k behind the top that means one of 2 things. That top class is over powered or the others are underpowered. Its basic logic and it seems to escape every wow fanboi. I;m not saying hunter needs to be the top all the time, but the fact that we cannot reach withing 20k DPS of the top is a problem. Doing 110k DPS is awesome but it sucks when the guy next to you does 130 not because hes got better gear or is a better player simply because his class is not only easier to play but just flat performs better.

    No wonder hunters are constantly shit on, you guys seem to just take it and be happy with it.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemesis003 View Post
    so its ok for a class like a warlock to have the top spot in the majority of the fight? Its not that it isn't possible its that the devs are too lazy to get it done. If you look at very fight and see that 1 or more classes best DPS is more then 20k behind the top that means one of 2 things. That top class is over powered or the others are underpowered. Its basic logic and it seems to escape every wow fanboi. I;m not saying hunter needs to be the top all the time, but the fact that we cannot reach withing 20k DPS of the top is a problem. Doing 110k DPS is awesome but it sucks when the guy next to you does 130 not because hes got better gear or is a better player simply because his class is not only easier to play but just flat performs better.

    No wonder hunters are constantly shit on, you guys seem to just take it and be happy with it.
    The problem you're pointing is that the Warlock class is OP not that Hunter is weak.. and its going to be addressed in 5.2 (they get 5% nerf if im not mistaken), compare Hunters to other classes not to a class that is known as OP and is going go be nerfed. Hunter is decent nowdays i'd just be happy if MM will be Viable for HM raiding again and they'll address the points i've mentioned b4 on this thread.

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