Will Hunters get changed in 5.2

[Deleted]

so its ok for a class like a warlock to have the top spot in the majority of the fight? Its not that it isn't possible its that the devs are too lazy to get it done. If you look at very fight and see that 1 or more classes best DPS is more then 20k behind the top that means one of 2 things. That top class is over powered or the others are underpowered. Its basic logic and it seems to escape every wow fanboi. I;m not saying hunter needs to be the top all the time, but the fact that we cannot reach withing 20k DPS of the top is a problem. Doing 110k DPS is awesome but it sucks when the guy next to you does 130 not because hes got better gear or is a better player simply because his class is not only easier to play but just flat performs better.

No wonder hunters are constantly shit on, you guys seem to just take it and be happy with it.

The thing is that the absolute top logs are often achieved because of luck, skill, gear and buffs, so while the #1 on one boss will be 20k higher than the next that doesn't automatically make it so that all players are going to do 20k more dps than the next person/class.

Stop over reacting, we really REALLY are not in a bad place at the moment. We could be higher yes of course, but we are not in a bad spot.

[Deleted]

http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overa...10100000000000
Top spec from every class - i believe we should be at top 5 here, yet we are pretty close to bottom.
Yes we are not bad, but as pure dps class we deserve more (to be clear - in my opinion all pure dps class should have one spec in top 5 and 2 other not far away [like MM, Subt or Frost are now..]).

[skitzy129]

What do you mean by screwed? We're not in a bad place.

We're certainly not in a great place either.

Just mid to low in general with occasional spikes of greatness. It's been a bummer coming from ridiculous god tier SV in 4.3.

I'd be pretty damn happy just getting a 5% buff to ES damage. IMO SV AoE is the best in the game from my own experience and since 5.1, SV single target is right up there with BM (or better if you just play and enjoy SV and fuckload more than BM like I do).

MM needs a lot of stuff. It's so far from being anything I even care to discuss.

I guess I'd also like to see Widow Venom tied in to SS, and also Powershot removed entirely and something brand new put in its place...but I'm dreaming on those.

[Deleted]

Just mid to low in general with occasional spikes of greatness. It's been a bummer coming from ridiculous god tier SV in 4.3.

We were shit in DS until a month or so in to the patch were we got buffed to about the same position that we are in now.

[Sandwrong]

Everyone remembers the great, times. never the meh times.

[refire]

We're certainly not in a great place either.

Just mid to low in general with occasional spikes of greatness. It's been a bummer coming from ridiculous god tier SV in 4.3.

I'd be pretty damn happy just getting a 5% buff to ES damage. IMO SV AoE is the best in the game from my own experience and since 5.1, SV single target is right up there with BM (or better if you just play and enjoy SV and fuckload more than BM like I do).

MM needs a lot of stuff. It's so far from being anything I even care to discuss.

I guess I'd also like to see Widow Venom tied in to SS, and also Powershot removed entirely and something brand new put in its place...but I'm dreaming on those.

What fights are you mid to low on?

I play with some pretty competent people with eleven (I think?) hardmodes down. We're bad damage on heroic dogs but we can light the floor with no dps loss, amazing on Feng (although it's a fight that can be abused doing shield fourth and padding on adds so the numbers will be skewed here), amazing on Gara'jal if you're raid leader is smart enough to realize you have a very small benefit from the buff and a very weak cleave in the spirit realm, amazing on heroic spirit kings, DKs and Warlocks both blow us out on heroic Elegon because of dot spreading and the glyph that extends the range for warlocks however we are one of the best soaks for protectors, and the most important part of Will we have control with traps, deterrence for sparks, and amazing SV AoE. We're bad on one fight and one of the best if not the best for Feng, Gara'jal, and will (because of deterrence soaking).

In Heart of Fear we're good on heroic Zor'lok since we don't lose dps to attenuation (sp?), Ta'yak when played properly is again a pretty good fight for us although I'm not sure why, we have no cleave damage so we can't compete with DK's, Arms warriors, or rogues on Garalon however we don't lose damage when kiting pheromones, and even on my first heroic Garalon kill back in Novemeber only cleave classes were allowed on the legs because they died to fast so while the numbers won't show us as good, we're just as good as any other class that doesn't have a cheese cleave mechanic (Howling Blast, sweeping strikes, blade flurry), we're one of the best on Wind Lord (I did 418k without padding) plus we can glyph scatter and save a wipe from someone being dumb with a re-trap, I haven't killed heroic Amber or Shekzeer so I won't comment on that.

In Terrace we're good on protectors although numbers won't show that because of wasteful cleave padding, tsulong normal has a very small gap between classes but I'm unsure about heroic, on Heroic Lei Shei we're incredibly good comparing with arms and arcane for the best class to bring, and I imagine we're rather bad at heroic Sha of Fear but I wouldn't know.

Either way, the fights we're very bad damage wise on (Dogs and Will) we're also the best at an encounter mechanic (spark soaking and floor lighting). Excluding padding on a fight like protectors, we're in a very solid spot right now. That's not to say I wouldn't love to see some changes. Marksmanship needs something, most likely to the tune of aimed shot scaling more with weapon damage, creating a sort of Ulduar esque playstyle where whether you were SV or MM depended on your weapon (and ArP at the time), beast cleave could use a buff but for the burst BM can provide I think it's honestly in a pretty good state, and SV could use a mastery tweak to make SV gearing go for mastery which would scale up Explosive shot damage a lot, or a rework on AP scaling with explosive shot or black arrow. With those suggestions said though the thought still remains that overall, when you take out the worthless padding we're only in a bad spot on DPS with a couple of encounters, and on those encounters our bad DPS is also countered by being the best class to handle a mechanic.

My apologies for the wall of text but really, look at the bigger picture of things. For one exclude warlocks from most DPS talks. They are very clearly overpowered, asking to be tuned around an overpowered class never makes sense. Two, realize we have close to no cleave and that a comparison to a cleave class on a cleave fight is worthless. If you want cleave as a ranged class similar to a hunter, roll a shadow priest. It's the exact same thing with different names for the spells. Three, realize that on the fights we aren't great on dps wise, we're also very good at a mechanic. Lastly, for four make sure you're comparing fights that aren't being gibbed. Comparing us to a shadow priest on protectors when they're multi-dotting to pad (although mind spike procs may make it worth it) doesn't make sense. Comparing your SV feng parse with shield second to an SV feng parse that took shield last and only had five people padding for numbers on the adds also doesn't make sense.

[Nemesis003]

What fights are you mid to low on?

I play with some pretty competent people with eleven (I think?) hardmodes down. We're bad damage on heroic dogs but we can light the floor with no dps loss, amazing on Feng (although it's a fight that can be abused doing shield fourth and padding on adds so the numbers will be skewed here), amazing on Gara'jal if you're raid leader is smart enough to realize you have a very small benefit from the buff and a very weak cleave in the spirit realm, amazing on heroic spirit kings, DKs and Warlocks both blow us out on heroic Elegon because of dot spreading and the glyph that extends the range for warlocks however we are one of the best soaks for protectors, and the most important part of Will we have control with traps, deterrence for sparks, and amazing SV AoE. We're bad on one fight and one of the best if not the best for Feng, Gara'jal, and will (because of deterrence soaking).

In Heart of Fear we're good on heroic Zor'lok since we don't lose dps to attenuation (sp?), Ta'yak when played properly is again a pretty good fight for us although I'm not sure why, we have no cleave damage so we can't compete with DK's, Arms warriors, or rogues on Garalon however we don't lose damage when kiting pheromones, and even on my first heroic Garalon kill back in Novemeber only cleave classes were allowed on the legs because they died to fast so while the numbers won't show us as good, we're just as good as any other class that doesn't have a cheese cleave mechanic (Howling Blast, sweeping strikes, blade flurry), we're one of the best on Wind Lord (I did 418k without padding) plus we can glyph scatter and save a wipe from someone being dumb with a re-trap, I haven't killed heroic Amber or Shekzeer so I won't comment on that.

In Terrace we're good on protectors although numbers won't show that because of wasteful cleave padding, tsulong normal has a very small gap between classes but I'm unsure about heroic, on Heroic Lei Shei we're incredibly good comparing with arms and arcane for the best class to bring, and I imagine we're rather bad at heroic Sha of Fear but I wouldn't know.

Either way, the fights we're very bad damage wise on (Dogs and Will) we're also the best at an encounter mechanic (spark soaking and floor lighting). Excluding padding on a fight like protectors, we're in a very solid spot right now. That's not to say I wouldn't love to see some changes. Marksmanship needs something, most likely to the tune of aimed shot scaling more with weapon damage, creating a sort of Ulduar esque playstyle where whether you were SV or MM depended on your weapon (and ArP at the time), beast cleave could use a buff but for the burst BM can provide I think it's honestly in a pretty good state, and SV could use a mastery tweak to make SV gearing go for mastery which would scale up Explosive shot damage a lot, or a rework on AP scaling with explosive shot or black arrow. With those suggestions said though the thought still remains that overall, when you take out the worthless padding we're only in a bad spot on DPS with a couple of encounters, and on those encounters our bad DPS is also countered by being the best class to handle a mechanic.

My apologies for the wall of text but really, look at the bigger picture of things. For one exclude warlocks from most DPS talks. They are very clearly overpowered, asking to be tuned around an overpowered class never makes sense. Two, realize we have close to no cleave and that a comparison to a cleave class on a cleave fight is worthless. If you want cleave as a ranged class similar to a hunter, roll a shadow priest. It's the exact same thing with different names for the spells. Three, realize that on the fights we aren't great on dps wise, we're also very good at a mechanic. Lastly, for four make sure you're comparing fights that aren't being gibbed. Comparing us to a shadow priest on protectors when they're multi-dotting to pad (although mind spike procs may make it worth it) doesn't make sense. Comparing your SV feng parse with shield second to an SV feng parse that took shield last and only had five people padding for numbers on the adds also doesn't make sense.

you say we are not bad yet i ranked on elite protectors tonight at number 48 and i was 8th DPS in my guild... i can be top 50 in the world of BM hunters (without padding) and yet not be in the upper half of the DPS in my guild.

Hunters are not terrible by we are not in a good place, we simply aren't useless like we were right at 5.1

[Free]

We were shit in DS until a month or so in to the patch were we got buffed to about the same position that we are in now.

lol no, hunters in late DS are not comparable to hunters now

[Deleted]

If everyone is within the top 200 DPS in their class on a fight and on the same fight say Lei Shi as its a high movement fight which hunters are able to excel on and a warlock does 122k and i do 109k and we goth have roughly the same quality gear then its class imbalance.

The only point in the fight that requires you to move also lets anyone cast while moving. How is this an advantage to hunters? Clearly, its an advantage to the warlocks.

[Nemesis003]

The only point in the fight that requires you to move also lets anyone cast while moving. How is this an advantage to hunters? Clearly, its an advantage to the warlocks.

you cannot just stand still... the farther from the boss you are the more damage you take, so you have to run to her....

[BGHunter]

In my vision, hunters were in bottom, before serpent sting buff with monk and rogues. And blizzard make this buff to rise hunters in chart, we don't take anything more to fix us. This buff is smart enough to bring SV Hunters near the BM on single target, smart enough in AoE so we can be near DK, Mages or Shammys as SV. PowerShot and GlaiveToss miss targets and as for now in PTR this will not be addressed. Hunters are not bad, but bellow Mages, Locks, DKs and some more. In DS legendary weapon rise a lot of classes on top of us.

If you don't believe on raidbots, there is worldoflogs. You can check best hunters in game, in top 20guilds US/EU, where they have BiS gear, how they perform in their HardCore raid rooster. If don't want to check it, yes we are never in top on any of the encounters. I don't care if classes on top are OP or not, I want top 1 ranked hunter to be really close in meters to top 1 ranked Mages, Locks, DK, Warrs and so on.

[Deleted]

What I would do for some type of cleave.

IMO... what they should do is add a small aoe to our explosive shot. I think it had it when it first came out. But off the top of my head, that would be the best start.

OR

Make the MM mastery cleave 1-2 targets instead of how wild quiver works now. The more mastery, the more % of damage the cleave does. OR the more mastery the higher the chance you have to cleave. I like the latter.

Who really likes the current wild quiver right now anyways.

ES had an AOE at that start of Wrath. Was changed in 3.0.6 (?) around the time Steady Shot Scaling was nerfed. The AOE was removed and the damage doubled IIRC.

The last point I remember Hunter being really really good was Ulduar at the point MM started to out scale SV. Those were the days!!! Only the mage beat us then!

[summourn]

I apologize if this is semi off topic, but I suppose it's in regards to upcoming hunter changes (maybe in 5.2? maybe later down the road?) and is better than creating a whole new thread.

I keep reading a lot of talk regarding quivers and the demand for them lately. If they are eventually added, does anyone know if they're going to replace weapons displaying on the back? I've waited years to be able to see my bow on my back and don't really want it replaced by a quiver.

Or would it just be something that shows up while you attack, like it did back before ammo removal etc?

[Nemesis003]

I apologize if this is semi off topic, but I suppose it's in regards to upcoming hunter changes (maybe in 5.2? maybe later down the road?) and is better than creating a whole new thread.

I keep reading a lot of talk regarding quivers and the demand for them lately. If they are eventually added, does anyone know if they're going to replace weapons displaying on the back? I've waited years to be able to see my bow on my back and don't really want it replaced by a quiver.

Or would it just be something that shows up while you attack, like it did back before ammo removal etc?

back in the good times of wow when you used a bow it showed a quiver you pulled arrows from, now you rach back and pull one out of thin air.

[bewsh]

I apologize if this is semi off topic, but I suppose it's in regards to upcoming hunter changes (maybe in 5.2? maybe later down the road?) and is better than creating a whole new thread.

I keep reading a lot of talk regarding quivers and the demand for them lately. If they are eventually added, does anyone know if they're going to replace weapons displaying on the back? I've waited years to be able to see my bow on my back and don't really want it replaced by a quiver.

Or would it just be something that shows up while you attack, like it did back before ammo removal etc?

Have not read but a single tweet asking about quivers from someone who was clearly a clueless or new hunter. I highly doubt they are ever coming back as an equipped item. Was pretty much confirmed they're not coming back...

[Puerto]

Have not read but a single tweet asking about quivers from someone who was clearly a clueless or new hunter. I highly doubt they are ever coming back as an equipped item. Was pretty much confirmed they're not coming back...

Apparently you think like GC. All hunters are asking for the quiver animations, not the item slot/bag that we use to have. That thing was just annoying.

[refire]

you say we are not bad yet i ranked on elite protectors tonight at number 48 and i was 8th DPS in my guild... i can be top 50 in the world of BM hunters (without padding) and yet not be in the upper half of the DPS in my guild.

Hunters are not terrible by we are not in a good place, we simply aren't useless like we were right at 5.1

Work on your reading comprehension a bit. Comparing yourself on protectors is a completely worthless comparison. I imagine you're Gurzen from Refined, which means the 7 people that beat you were 3 warlocks multi-dotting the whole fight (wasteless damage because they heal when the other dies), two boomkins multi-dotting the whole fight (wasteless damage because they heal when the other dies), a shadow priest multi-dotting the whole fight (wasteless damage because they heal when the other dies), and lastly a warrior that didn't cleave very much.

What should also be noted is that the warrior that didn't really cleave, parsed 32nd for fury, which is higher than your respective classes parse. and the shadow priest also parsed 32nd. It should also be noted that all three of the warlocks also parsed in the top 85 for their respective spec. So now you're complaining that two classes that played better within their class (shadow priest and warrior), and three people that played very comparable (48 to 80 is close on rankings of hundreds of thousands of people) while also padding the whole fight beat you. You're using this as justification that hunters are under powered?

[Deleted]

I don't know where some people here get the idea that Surv AOE is somehow awesome. Because it isn't, you still get dwarfed by DK, Mage and Ele AOE.

Yes Surv AOE ignores the AOE cap, but please name 1 fight where that is happening. Nope you can't. And the very first trash in MSV does not count.

Elemental AoE doesn't hold a candle to SV AoE on 6 targets or more.

[bewsh]

Apparently you think like GC. All hunters are asking for the quiver animations, not the item slot/bag that we use to have. That thing was just annoying.

I think like GC? What does that even mean? If by all hunters you mean yourself, cool. I couldn't give a damn about a quiver animation and neither does anyone I've talked to. There are higher priority things to be done before they can even think about stupid shit like adding in a new animation for an item that is not even equipped.

First we want our ranged weapons to show, not a 2h, and not a quiver -- now that weapons finally show people want a quiver? No wonder people get treated like idiots by devs because as usual the users don't even know what the hell they want.

I have not seen anyone ask for a quiver animation to be honest, only asking about quivers as an off hand equip which is fucking retarded now.

People get hung up on the stupidest shit.

[eschatological]

Quiver animation? LoL. My bow already looks retarded on my curved worgen back, who cares. I just want it to look good when I'm pulling the string to shoot you in the face with it.