Heroic Progression Order

[ananoon]

I know there's been a few threads on this in the past, but looking back many pages, I can't find them. It's probably been long enough that with more experience out there, opinions may have changed.

We're currently 5/6 MV and 3/6HoF. We would have had 6/6 MV a week or two ago, but holidays screwed us. Looks like we're downing it tonight though, so I'm starting to think about our progression next. We've done bladelord, garalon, and windlord in heroic, and will probably do Zor'lok next week. My questions is whether we should continue with amber shaper and empress next, or start working on some heroics in Terrace.

For those of you out there with heroic Terrace experience, do you think this makes sense? Are all the fights in terrace harder in heroic than HoF? That definitely was not the case in normal mode.

[edlike]

From what i've heard you want to tackle Lei Shi next. Most people say it only takes a dozen or so pulls until you can nab a kill. We are 6/6 msv and 3/6 HoF, and will be working on amber shaper tonight because we have cleared terrace this week, but next week we are most likely pulling Lei Shi after clearing farm heroics.

[Deleted]

I would even say Lei Shi is easier than Zorlok.

[Blood Fox]

I would even say Lei Shi is easier than Zorlok.

zorlok is a pain in the ass

[ananoon]

zorlok is a pain in the ass

We'll try Lei Shi first then, but what would suggest for the order after that? Sounds like for HoF at least, Zor'lok is easier than Amber shaper, but are any of the other terrace fights easier than Zor'lok?

[Deleted]

We're at 6/6 and 3/6 HOF atm also, and we've pretty much got a kill on zor'lok.. its taken us about 60 wipes.. but we coulda got a kill around the 40 mark, we've just been hit with same bad RNG a lot of attempts

its defo a really hard fight, the hardest ive done this teir so far... (as a healer)... you need 2x really good healers for this fight thats for sure... we had 3x 5-8% wipes tonite, mainly because the echo tank died while i was spamin regrowth on him and didnt get any crits (i know, didnt use the glyph!).. but if he had suvived that it woulda been a kill.

ne way... after zor'lok we're going to go for amber, then grand empress.. then we'll move onto lei shi etc.... altho ive heard that lei shi is easier... id rather clear 1 instance before moving onto the next, it all depends how hard amber+empress are.. if we get really stuck i guess we'll go lei shi. after that tho i guess its protectors>tsulong>sha>break time

[Deleted]

It depends on what your raid has issues with but I'd probably go something like lei shi->zorlok->protectors->tsulong->ambershaper.

[Riemu2k3]

Isn't it more like a question about whether or not you wanna clear content or just do as many heroics as possible? 10-Man speaking.

Sure, Zor'lok and Amber Shaper might be a bit harder than Lei-Shi or even Protectors - but they give you access to empress and a 2nd cleared Raid. Neither Zor'lok nor Amber Shaper are gear heavy fights from what I've read here. I mean, if youre're 6/6 and 3/6, you should have the gear to down them. I doubt having 4-6 Heroics Items more will help you much in terms of "making the fight easier". Protectors and Lei-Shi on the other hand, are gear dependant fights? Meaning, the more gear you have the easier the fight becomes. Or am I missing something here?

We are 6/6 and 3/6 too and will head for Amber Shaper first. I made the decision based on 3 criterias:

- As mentioned above, gear related stuff

- We picked amber shaper over Zor'lok, because we have 7-10 hours a week for raiding (2-3 days) and our garalon/wind-lord kills aren't rock solid yet - so we will still need like 3-4 tries for each i guess, resulting in a "unpredictable time needed" to clear HoF. I wanna maximise progress time on the next boss and choosing Zor'lok over Ambershaper would mean lost time in the sense of "i dont know how long i will need to clear the rest of HoF, so i better stop early so i don't lose out on gear". I don't expect him to fall over in the 4 hours I have to progress on him.

- It's pretty late in the current tier. 5.2 PTR is already on the way. I expect to hit the patch in like 5-7 weeks. Realistically, Zor'lok, Shaper and Empress will both take us like 1 1/2 Raidweeks, judging from other 10-mans on our Server/in Comparison to other bosses. Same goes for Protectors. Lei-Shi might be doable in 4 hours of Progress, not sure. That means, if you take the HoF round, you will most certainly have cleared HoF by the time 5.2 hits. Maybe even with 1/4 Terrasse or sth like that. But it's gonna be pretty tight if you go 2/4 ToS first and then HoF 6/6. And I for one would rather have one T14 Raid remaining when 5.2 hits, than two. I don't expect to clear T14 before 5.2 hits. It's just not enough time anymore for everyone who just reached 9/16 HC - if you don't have like 4-5 raids / week that is.

---

Hope that helped a bit. But maybe I'm mistaken or have some errors in my decisions? If so, please educate me - I'm always looking to get the best out of my guild.

[bals]

did op ever say 10 or 25 man?
10man : clear 5/6 Hof then you can either do lei shi, protectors, or empress. Empress may be most difficult and lots of guilds 4 heal it
25man : pretty much the same imo. get at least 4/6 (no amber or empress) then you can start trying other fights. protectors and empress are probably more similar in difficulty here, both being more difficult than lei shi and amber shaper

[Deleted]

Sound reasoning Riemu, even fights without gear reliance is made a lot simpler with gear though (especially zorlok) so keep that in mind. Even if you do get amber-shaper+zorlok before terrace (perfectly fine to me) I would recommend that you save empress for last, I've yet to beat it (mostly due to vacation and people being away, but still), the fight is a lot tigher than the other heroics.

[Deleted]

We're at 6/6 and 3/6 HOF atm also, and we've pretty much got a kill on zor'lok.. its taken us about 60 wipes.. but we coulda got a kill around the 40 mark, we've just been hit with same bad RNG a lot of attempts

its defo a really hard fight, the hardest ive done this teir so far... (as a healer)... you need 2x really good healers for this fight thats for sure... we had 3x 5-8% wipes tonite, mainly because the echo tank died while i was spamin regrowth on him and didnt get any crits (i know, didnt use the glyph!).. but if he had suvived that it woulda been a kill.

ne way... after zor'lok we're going to go for amber, then grand empress.. then we'll move onto lei shi etc.... altho ive heard that lei shi is easier... id rather clear 1 instance before moving onto the next, it all depends how hard amber+empress are.. if we get really stuck i guess we'll go lei shi. after that tho i guess its protectors>tsulong>sha>break time

I don't get it why people are 2 healing Zor'lok. We killed it in 1 night with less than 25 wipes going by 3 healers and killing the echo in P2. It's super easy and with 3 healers Force and Verve can be healed without any cds from anyone.

With 3 healers just leave 1 tank, 1 dps and 1 healers to 2nd platform to kill the echo. Rest 7 will go to mc platform. Healer helps to kill the attenuation echo.

In P2 just survive the double attenuation (there are safe spots in the room if you move boss correctly to other side) and rest is easy. I think it took us 6 tries to make it work in P2 and grab a kill in 1 night of practicing.

Just my two cents.

EDIT: On topic, we are 6/6 and 4/6 now. Next Unsok,then Protectors and Lei Shi HC next week.

[Vargur]

There's a thread somewhere with an Excel chart...

[AgilityTank]

It might go without saying but if you click on the 'stats' link on guildox.com you can see avg ilvl groups had when downing each fight. Hope it helps http://www.guildox.com/go/g.asp?a=6

[Beastest]

Ambershaper was far easier than I had thought we only just started on it tonight. We are done raiding for the week but I don't doubt the kill is well within reach next week.

[ananoon]

did op ever say 10 or 25 man?

Sorry I forgot to mention it. We're 10m.

[bals]

Sorry I forgot to mention it. We're 10m.

then like I said, go 5/6 HOF then decide what you want to work on.
Empress is extremely healing intensively so if you don't have many/any hybrids or even a 4th healer you might want to put that off until last.
Lei shi is a bit more difficult on 10man compared to 25man as well

[Deleted]

I disagree with the people saying you should go 5/6 HoF then go lei shi, protectors, tuslong....

empress may be "hard" but the time you spend trying to kill the above 3, if you put all that time into empress ull have her down.. and personally.. killing end raid boss > 2-3 other boss's.

we have 3 very good healers, 1 of which is a very good priest.. plus a paladin off spec healer, so i think empress shouldnt be 2 hard if we decide the 4 healing option as well.

[Deleted]

If you think that matters, great for you, but if the point of the guild is to gear up and be as prepared for 5.2 downing 3 bosses in terrace > downing (possibly) 1 in HoF.

[Deleted]

If you think that matters, great for you, but if the point of the guild is to gear up and be as prepared for 5.2 downing 3 bosses in terrace > downing (possibly) 1 in HoF.

we are probably a good 2-3months away from 5.2, if your a 9/16 guild, ur most likely going to be at least 14/16 before 5.2 hits ne way.

as it stands, most 9/16 guilds probably have enuff gear and ilvl to down all 16 (except maybe sha), its just a matter of time and practise.. and skill.

sure gear helps, but even if u had 520 ilvl, ur not gonna learn the fight any faster.


I imagine most guilds suffer from lack of time, at least our 3 day raiding team does. because of 16 boss's... you have to spend a good day or 2 clearing the farm then only get maybe 3-5 hours progress per week. where as the last 6-7 boss's probably require a good 8-12 hours practise to master.

[Riptide]

we are probably a good 2-3months away from 5.2, if your a 9/16 guild, ur most likely going to be at least 14/16 before 5.2 hits ne way.

as it stands, most 9/16 guilds probably have enuff gear and ilvl to down all 16 (except maybe sha), its just a matter of time and practise.. and skill.

sure gear helps, but even if u had 520 ilvl, ur not gonna learn the fight any faster.


I imagine most guilds suffer from lack of time, at least our 3 day raiding team does. because of 16 boss's... you have to spend a good day or 2 clearing the farm then only get maybe 3-5 hours progress per week. where as the last 6-7 boss's probably require a good 8-12 hours practise to master.

What? It takes 1.5-2 hours to do 6/6 H msv and 4/4n terrace. Leaving you at least 4-6 hours for hof on a 2 days schedule. We raid 1-2 days a week and are in hof before the end of the night after doing msv/terrace.

If you are not 1-2 shotting everything you've already killed. Your strategy wasn't good for your raid or people aren't doing their jobs.