Bias against Freebs

[Kelimbror]

And pierce morgan is going to steal all your guns, right?

I know right? I am totally starting to get this vibe from him. That and the fact that he has a WoW avatar makes me think he's a bored individual who wants to make our lives difficult. I guess actual facts and evidence don't hold a candle to attention getting shenanigans. *sigh*

I think this right here is the number one argument against F2P. Not pay to win, not anything else, just people having to deal with this part of a 'community'. It's so sad.

[Arlee]

This is correct, I didn't know that it's only SM (nor about the ranked WZs).

It's definitely one of those things they did not communicate very clearly at all. On their chart that compares what you get for the different accounts they have finally added the part about not getting ranked warzones (but only if you hover over the bullet point) they still haven't added the clarification for Ops though. It's probably the #1 complaint from people because it isn't clear at all =/

[ariakul]

Tahapenes, you have one big issue here. You are arguing about how dare people want everything for free, which seems like a fine argument except that you are arguing the point to people who have never thought everything should be for free. The issue they have is that the F2P model as BioWare/EA implemented it was not compelling for long term growth of the game. Which can be an interesting discussion.

Also something that could be an interesting discussion would be what things should come Free and what should have be paid for. Also what should a sub get you? Those would be interesting.

Telling people they are wrong for wanting anything for free when the company itself has said it's intent is to give away portions for free is pointless and not really interesting.

QFE.

AS a Preferred and 2 F2P accounts, I don't expect everything for free. I don't have any issues with the credit caps, commendation caps, etc..... But, when they make these unlocks so expensive on the Cartel Market, they need to be sold for more credits that the people who need those locks can attain.

Unlimited WZ's and FP's are good for the ENTIRE community. More people queuing = lower waiting times for SUBSCRIBERS. Subscribers do like shorter waiting times for WZ's and FP's, right?

Limited GTN slots. Thats fine, thats how it is in almost all other F2P's. Plus the unlocks aren't too expensive.

Sprint needs to be moved to level 1 and level 1 speeder needs to be at 15. Not just out of pure frustration moving, but it also is a pain grouping with people when they need to keep waiting for you.

Paying to be able to get quest rewards though? UI bars? Unify color and headslot? C'mon. Whats next, charging F2P's to activate their space bars?

I actually heard some Subscribers talking in general yesterday about how they love it with F2P's now, they mentioned the planets are packed with people questing and how easy it was to get groups for the heroic quests. So, some people like us.

[Tahapenes]

I know right? I am totally starting to get this vibe from him. That and the fact that he has a WoW avatar makes me think he's a bored individual who wants to make our lives difficult. I guess actual facts and evidence don't hold a candle to attention getting shenanigans. *sigh*

I think this right here is the number one argument against F2P. Not pay to win, not anything else, just people having to deal with this part of a 'community'. It's so sad.

As to the avatar, I've never bothered to change it (note it's from Wrath, so that may give you an idea how long I've had it).

As to the facts, you dance around what you call facts, but don't really look more closely at the sitatuion (case in point is Makeb).

[RoninaThorstone]

AS a Preferred and 2 F2P accounts, I don't expect everything for free. I don't have any issues with the credit caps, commendation caps, etc..... But, when they make these unlocks so expensive on the Cartel Market, they need to be sold for more credits that the people who need those locks can attain.

Unlimited WZ's and FP's are good for the ENTIRE community. More people queuing = lower waiting times for SUBSCRIBERS. Subscribers do like shorter waiting times for WZ's and FP's, right?

Yep. They make credits too easy to obtain compared to the credit cap for someone to feel comfortable with selling a 12 dollar unlock for a full set of dailies.

Second, yeah. They should have had a daily cap on the amount of wz comms you could earn, not how many wzs you can do. Just like IP for bot matches in league. They should be trying to get you to do as many multiplayer activities as possible to get you guilded and invested in the game and thus more likely to spend money on it.

Literally so many things they could do to make the model BETTER but they are so focused on making the system punitive rather than making it a system that encourages community growth.

[ariakul]

As to the avatar, I've never bothered to change it (note it's from Wrath, so that may give you an idea how long I've had it).

As to the facts, you dance around what you call facts, but don't really look more closely at the sitatuion (case in point is Makeb).

How many F2P's will buy it for $20? Probably none. Would you even be able to use any of the items or get quest rewards without dishing out more money or subscribing?

BiowareEA implemented their F2P model based on "lets frustrate f2p into subscribing" and "lets get subscribers gambling on packs". Instead of gambling to get a mask, bioware should have just sold the actual items for CC, like all other MMO's do.

[Tahapenes]

How many F2P's will buy it for $20? Probably none. Would you even be able to use any of the items or get quest rewards without dishing out more money or subscribing?

As I noted to Kitty earlier, you can buy the unlock for the story equipment pretty cheaply for a character off the GTN or for the entire account if you work out a deal with someone. So a F2P could make use of the gear from Makeb if they're willing to look for the unlock on the GTN and save up some of their credits.

BiowareEA implemented their F2P model based on "lets frustrate f2p into subscribing" and "lets get subscribers gambling on packs". Instead of gambling to get a mask, bioware should have just sold the actual items for CC, like all other MMO's do.

I can agree with that, there is a lot of room for improvement, but there are people out there that rage about their implementation and want everything for nothing which I don't agree with.

[Kelimbror]

As to the facts, you dance around what you call facts, but don't really look more closely at the sitatuion (case in point is Makeb).

You say Makeb costs more for subscribers so it's just peaches to charge double for F2P, stating that F2P gets all these benefits that they don't pay for.

Hrm, ok. Let's think about this.
1) Already stated you can't get access to everything with cash or credits, so your logic fails
2) Subscribers can use their time and FREE STIPEND (that you are ignoring) to buy their own unlocks and go F2P
3) Subscribers have unlimited credits and ability to further ability acquire those credits to buy their own unlocks and go F2P

Who is ignoring facts? You are. I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt of ignorance from Arlee's suggestion, but now you're just making yourself look silly.

[RoninaThorstone]

As I noted to Kitty earlier, you can buy the unlock for the story equipment pretty cheaply for a character off the GTN or for the entire account if you work out a deal with someone. So a F2P could make use of the gear from Makeb if they're willing to look for the unlock on the GTN and save up so of those credits.



I can agree with that, there is a lot of room for improvement, but there are people out there that rage about their implementation and want everything for nothing which I don't agree with.

If you've ever done the bonus series of alderaan as emp with a preferred account you would know what he was talking about. I think one of the 30 quests had a quest reward you could actually take.

Also, who are you talking about again?

[Kelimbror]

As I noted to Kitty earlier, you can buy the unlock for the story equipment pretty cheaply for a character off the GTN or for the entire account if you work out a deal with someone. So a F2P could make use of the gear from Makeb if they're willing to look for the unlock on the GTN and save up some of their credits.

"work out a deal with someone" - that sounds like a totally viable thing...not to mention that you are now relating effort and time spent doing something so ridiculous isn't valued at all compared to money. So when you follow up with:

there are people out there that rage about their implementation and want everything for nothing which I don't agree with.

You are just being belligerent

[Edge-]

I can agree with that, there is a lot of room for improvement, but there are people out there that rage about their implementation and want everything for nothing which I don't agree with.

Again, show me someone in this thread who has said that. You keep bringing it up, but nobody in this thread has ever stated that. Even further, Kitty, HK and myself (three of the biggest critics in this thread so far) have flat out stated that none of us want or expect to get the full game for free.

[Argroth]

You get full access to the story of Makeb just like a subscriber, but pay $3 to $5 less. Do you think most subscrbers are going to running ops while getting to 55 (there will be those that PvP to it)? Again, you're paying less than a subscriber in the long run for Makeb, that's the fact. If you don't think that's the case, don't but Makeb, it's that simple.

I can guarentee a F2P character will not get everything from makeb a subscriber gets. F2P players are locked outta quest rewards, they get less experience, they won't be able to get gear as fast as subscribers.

You act as if a f2p player buying Makeb will get EVERYTHING.

lol you say "in the long run" but in the long run a F2P player will get screwed at 55 not getting anything, a credit cap even easier to max out and even less things to buy with it since people will then complain about how "easy" it is to get money. Things are being put up for 1 million now, I can't imagine how much everything will be outta a f2p price range at 55.

A F2P player gets less but has to pay more for makeb, that's the bottom line, no matter how you try and twist it.

---------- Post added 2013-01-08 at 10:24 PM ----------

Like they always say, its best to tell potential customers "if you don't like it, leave".

Oh yeah, I remember that!

Said no one ever.

Yea I like how so many freebe haters think that is some sort of arguement. Like it validates crappy customer service or crappy products.

I mean who would ever want to actually IMPROVE a product or something they are interested in? right? The only solution is to straight up quit.

Have an arguement with your GF once? Much better to just straight out leave her then work on it or talk it out....[COLOR="red"]

---------- Post added 2013-01-08 at 10:28 PM ----------

Account access for this is going for 750k credits, work out a deal with someone where you pay them off over a couple days and run dailys, problem solved.



If you want just access to ops, that's about $10 a month (240 cartel coins per week). It's a carte blanche setup, again, your choice.



As I noted in the post you quote, 160k credit for full inventory and 800k credits for all 5 vault slots through unlocks.



If you want, I'll just keep posting in game ways for you to get the items in question while staying F2P or spending a little bit of money a month to do Ops or PvP through spending money. Considering the patch that came out today, you can also buy more character slots for about $6.25 per (600 cartel coins).

---------- Post added 2013-01-08 at 08:09 PM ----------



I didn't say wanting anything for free was a problem, what I said was the problem was people wanting everything for free and then bitching when they don't get that.

So bend over backwards just to be able to play a game? sounds fun... Totally encouraging me to play.

Y'know intead of the multimillion dollar company making a decent model? No your way is the better way... torture your customers... because you will always have some diehard to argue for you against those people who want actual quality in products...

[traen]

I guess the f2p model for swtor is relatively new and old players are still not used to it.
2-3 years later less than 5% of the swtor community will remember days when swtor did not have f2p option and most of the annoying restrictions will be replaced by something more reasonable.

As of now for many people f2p restrictions make them just stop playing the game instead of buying the subscription. Maybe it works for now when a lot of new players come to game, but it won't last forever and developers will have to invent new ways to attract new players (even f2p players) into game.

[Deleted]

Paying to be able to get quest rewards though? UI bars? Unify color and headslot? C'mon. Whats next, charging F2P's to activate their space bars?

Pay just 500 Cartel Coins to see your character's BOTH legs! Prefered players unlock both legs automatically but only subscribers can see both legs AND both arms!

I actually heard some Subscribers talking in general yesterday about how they love it with F2P's now, they mentioned the planets are packed with people questing and how easy it was to get groups for the heroic quests. So, some people like us.

Can only speak from my experience short experience on 1 server but finding groups is super fast. I just post LFG for Heroics/FP in general chat and it takes like 10 seconds to have someone whisper or get an invite. And most players I grouped with were F2P, although a couple subs were very nice too

[ariakul]

As I noted to Kitty earlier, you can buy the unlock for the story equipment pretty cheaply for a character off the GTN or for the entire account if you work out a deal with someone. So a F2P could make use of the gear from Makeb if they're willing to look for the unlock on the GTN and save up some of their credits.



I can agree with that, there is a lot of room for improvement, but there are people out there that rage about their implementation and want everything for nothing which I don't agree with.

There is no unlock for "story equipment". The only unlocks for equipment are for the epic gear and the gear for special events. (cheapest I've seen the unlocks for is about 750k credits, well over the credit cap for the people that can use it)

Good thread on SWTOR.com , pvpers that are subscribed kind of sticking up for F2P toons:
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=583318

[Gerion]

It's kinda funny. Tera announces F2P and from the looks of it, it blows TOR's F2P out of the water. I mean instead of gouging their F2P players for money with a constant barrage of limitations and frequent reminders asking you to purchase unlocks, Tera's announced F2P option only seems to limit character slots while everything else remains free. Tera is going through the route of pushing incentives for subscribers instead of limitations for free players (except of course the char limit).

Standard players will have full access to TERA's wealth of in-game content with two free characters per server. They are not subject to level caps and will experience no restrictions to content, time, or level. In recognition of their early adoption to the game, players who purchased TERA will gain founder benefits, including eight character slots, four bank tabs, a "Founder" title, the exclusive Terminus mount, and much more.

Available in 30-day increments for $14.99, elite status grants players extra dungeon rewards, 10 bonus quests per day, a daily delivery of items and boosts, an elite mount, in-game store discounts, waived brokerage registration taxes, and more. Elite players will find that their status pays for itself through free items and discounts, let alone in-game perks.

While non-elite players will not benefit from the same perks as their Elite counterparts, they will experience game content, character growth, holding political office, and other in-game determinations of status and power exactly the same way all players have since the game launched. They can also choose to buy most items available to elite status players on an a la carte basis from the in-game store or trade broker.

Bioware really needs to change their strategy of mistreating players.

[RoninaThorstone]

It's kinda funny. Tera announces F2P and from the looks of it, it blows TOR's F2P out of the water. I mean instead of gouging their F2P players for money with a constant barrage of limitations and frequent reminders asking you to purchase unlocks, Tera's announced F2P option only seems to limit character slots while everything else remains free. Tera is going through the route of pushing incentives for subscribers instead of limitations for free players (except of course the char limit).

Tera even took the time to take pot shots at swtor in their announcement.

They're model is better. Its pretty close to Aion US.

[Kelimbror]

Wow. I am blown away by their model. I am so glad my wife and I both purchased the game, as we will now have the ability to go smash faces for free on all of our characters.

I know this is totally the wrong place for this, but dear god biowarea look at this:

Unlike other games that restrict or deny parts of the game to free users, TERA: Rising offers every epic dungeon, every pulse-pounding BAM fight, and every well-earned level to every user. No content requires payment; play as much as you like!

As someone who supports the evolution of F2P, this is incredible. I would play TERA over SWTOR just for this alone. And that's a large statement considering that SWTOR is a vastly superior game. I hope this puts some pressure on BiowarEA to do something meaningful.

[RoninaThorstone]

I really liked the "We aren't going to take away your action bars" thing in the video.

[Deleted]

Good luck to Tera and Tera players. If it wasn't fantasy based i'd be tempted. Regardless I'm sure TOR will learn from other's success. I'm trying to keep a straight face, honest.