Raid Spec Punishments

[Kael]

Keep steering the conversation towards actually discussing whether or not raid punishments exist, and whether or not they should, and away from personal attacks or arguments strictly between two people, okay?

Honestly I think the positional requirements ARE out of date, because there's no "reward" from the "risk." For some reason Blizzard decided that specs should do the same damage/healing/tanking ability regardless of relative difficulty, which I personally find odd, but that's how it IS. To lose damage or have to work especially hard (COUNTER to raid mechanics) to maintain the same damage as an easier spec is... silly.

[Koji2k11]

Keep steering the conversation towards actually discussing whether or not raid punishments exist, and whether or not they should, and away from personal attacks or arguments strictly between two people, okay?

Honestly I think the positional requirements ARE out of date, because there's no "reward" from the "risk." For some reason Blizzard decided that specs should do the same damage/healing/tanking ability regardless of relative difficulty, which I personally find odd, but that's how it IS. To lose damage or have to work especially hard (COUNTER to raid mechanics) to maintain the same damage as an easier spec is... silly.

i agree,although it got better with assasination during cata with the pre patch for MoP but Sub still got its stay behind the boss or lose 20-40% of your damage penalty thats why i dont like to play sub myself just feels to punishing if you screw up

[Synexlol]

I am not familiar with MoP encounters, but as long as Blizzard has stopped designing fights to specifically take advantage of a spec's limitations (i.e. Ultraxion), then I don't think Backstab needs to change. If you want to maximize damage you will be behind the boss anyway, Backstab just adds another layer to that idea which raises the skill-cap of the spec. At worst it just forces you to learn how to move properly while DPS'ing.

[Ryme]

I am not familiar with MoP encounters, but as long as Blizzard has stopped designing fights to specifically take advantage of a spec's limitations (i.e. Ultraxion), then I don't think Backstab needs to change. If you want to maximize damage you will be behind the boss anyway, Backstab just adds another layer to that idea which raises the skill-cap of the spec. At worst it just forces you to learn how to move properly while DPS'ing.

It might not need to be changed, but it could sure do with being changed anyway. There will nearly always be a boss or mechanic in each tier that suggests or forces you to attack from the front, it would be nice to not be punished even further with this by being able to actually attack.

I don't buy that it raises skill-cap.

[Synexlol]

It might not need to be changed, but it could sure do with being changed anyway. There will nearly always be a boss or mechanic in each tier that suggests or forces you to attack from the front, it would be nice to not be punished even further with this by being able to actually attack.

That is a valid point but I would say that's more an issue with Blizzard boss design than Rogue class design.

[Coldkil]

That is a valid point but I would say that's more an issue with Blizzard boss design than Rogue class design.

Hit the nail in the head. The raid viability of Backstab depends more on boss mechanics than actual numbers (which seem to be just a little behind at the moment).

Anyway, if we take the overall feeling of the spec, you cannot use i for questing/solo play due to mobs facing you; in PvP it's completely viable but again looking at other classes they are just nuking you while you have to constantly run around to get behind your target.

Don't get it wrong: Backstab in is current fomat is perfectly usable, otherwise no one would be playing as Sub, especially in PvP; still remains the fact that the "additional layer of complexity" given by the positional requirement isn't rewarding at all and on the opposite it can be a cockblock for some aspects of the game.

That's why it is "outdated". I'm just waiing for the dread 6.0 devs mentiones to see what they have in mind for my class. For 5.2 we get some nice tools.