The big question of prostitution

[Deleted]

What you quoted says nothing, you obviously misunderstood "lets forget a few hundreds".
What I meant is lets keep it an exact figure NEVER ONCE I'VE SAID LETS IGNORE THOSE 400.
Why would I? Websites says 1000 active per day I say lets keep it 1000 nice round number and you KEEP SAYING I WANTED TO IGNORE THOSE 400?
Man if you ran out of things to say just dont reply.

I misunderstood this, by taking it at it's literal meaning? I am such a terrible person who is clearly only here to troll you in to making yourself look stupid...

[Deleted]

Warning: Let's keep the discussion civil please.

[Deleted]

What you mean is, you engaged in wild fantasies that were based on nothing concrete whatsoever, and despite the evidence of multiple nations where precisely the opposite occurred.

I don't care about your "I made up some scenarios where it might happen" when there's concrete evidence from ACTUAL scenarios where the opposite has happened in every single instance.



Because today, those four girls can't go to the police, because they will be arrested as prostitutes and deported as undesirables. If you legalize prostitution, they can be granted asylum and the man who was trafficking in them will be pursued.

The difference is that if prostitution is criminal, the authorities are the enemy of the victims. If it's legalized, the authorities are on their side. That's the entire reason for legalization, and why so many first world nations have done so, and seen a significant drop in such activity.

The criminalization in the US encourages human trafficking, it doesn't prevent it.

I apologise for the delay I'm working.
Ok we're on two completely different fields.
No one is arguing the decriminalisation of the "selling of services" (sorry guys its getting late and my English isn't as good as I wish it would be). It is ridicolous that proper developed country still find itself in this mess.
Having saying that. Fully legalised prostitution isn't the same thing.

---------- Post added 2013-01-09 at 05:26 PM ----------

The problem is your source wanted to separate them, and you do not. Your source is in favor of distinguishing a specific population, while you are not. Explain.



We're not the ones calling other posters' presentations crap.

Ah now it's not me any ore it's my source...
My source wanted to separate them?
Ill quote it again.

""How many Amsterdam prostitutes are there?"

Around 1,000 prostitutes work in Amsterdam on any given day, and a few hundred of them work behind the windows in the Red Light District. The others work in clubs, brothels, for escort services or from home. Totally, the city has about 400 such windows, with the big majority of them located at the Wallen in the Red Light District."

Read it up please. Nowhere it says such thing.

Are we going to continue this for much longer?

[Reeve]

Sex, no one. Prostitution a LOT of people. Again very naive idea of the world of prostitution.
Everyone is good looking, kind and educated huh?
And escort are all completely in control and no one using their services is aggressive violent and repressive. They're all good.

The dangers are linked to the illegality of it. If it weren't illegal, it wouldn't be hard for a prostitute to have a panic button she could use to call the cops in a John turned out to be abusive or dangerous. Because it's illegal right now, prostitutes have no such protections, aside from their pimps, who can often be more abusive than the clients.

[Deleted]

I misunderstood this, by taking it at it's literal meaning? I am such a terrible person who is clearly only here to troll you in to making yourself look stupid...

Cut it man we had enough.

[Endus]

I apologise for the delay I'm working.
Ok we're on two completely different fields.
No one is arguing the decriminalisation of the "selling of services" (sorry guys its getting late and my English isn't as good as I wish it would be). It is ridicolous that proper developed country still find itself in this mess.
Having saying that. Fully legalised prostitution isn't the same thing.

The only thing that makes prostitution illegal is the criminalization of the selling of their services. Legalizing it means decriminalizing it. That's all it means. I have no idea why you're trying to create an artificial distinction as if anyone were talking about something else, since that's what we've been talking about this entire time.

[semaphore]

Still dont change the fact that the state would be able to force you, your girlfriend, sister and mother in to applying to whorehouses for work.
Is that ok with everyone?

Why/how/where would any state do that?

[Reeve]

Why/how/where would any state do that?

They wouldn't. He's just making stuff up. The state isn't going to force you to take a job you find morally objectionable. We don't see nations currently forcing people to do pornography, now do we?

[Endus]

They wouldn't. He's just making stuff up. The state isn't going to force you to take a job you find morally objectionable. We don't see nations currently forcing people to do pornography, now do we?

Or forcing vegan animal lovers to become butchers.

It's just ridiculous fearmongering. It's no better than saying "prostitution has to be illegal because otherwise BADGERS WILL EAT YOUR FACE."

[Deleted]

The dangers are linked to the illegality of it. If it weren't illegal, it wouldn't be hard for a prostitute to have a panic button she could use to call the cops in a John turned out to be abusive or dangerous. Because it's illegal right now, prostitutes have no such protections, aside from their pimps, who can often be more abusive than the clients.

Not necessarily. Again, in a fully legalised environment I would suddenly think about the brothels away from the red light district. The ones where lights aren't shiny and controls aren't frequent.
What I am saying is fully legalising it on its own would not give you the benefits you and i all are looking for.
To do that you need to tackle human trafficking and criminalise users.
The rest could work could not work we don't know it works in a few places completely different from big countries where not only it wouldn't address the issue but has the potential to cause a lot of social and physical harm.

---------- Post added 2013-01-09 at 05:36 PM ----------

The only thing that makes prostitution illegal is the criminalization of the selling of their services. Legalizing it means decriminalizing it. That's all it means. I have no idea why you're trying to create an artificial distinction as if anyone were talking about something else, since that's what we've been talking about this entire time.

No man. Fully legalised prostitution isn't the same as allowing, as Canada does, privates selling services on their own. Completely different.

[Kryos]

I'm from Germany, here it's legal and controlled.

Illegal = Mafia-like underground structures. Diseases everywere. Prostitutes are often abused and forced. Infected customers spread diseases to friends and family.

Legal = taxes (yes, Germany is taxing whores), basic social security (no starving and doing horrible things like old prostitutes had to do in the past to get money), healthcare for them (good for everybody involved), government controls the brothels for hygiene and talk to the prostitutes (helps to prevent abuse). Customers don't get sick and infect their families.

So 100% for legal and controlled. Also 0 tolerance for teenager prostitution, sex slaves from eastern europe and all the other bad things happening "underground".
Fact ist, you can't stop prostitution. It always existed, legal or illegal. Even some animals prostitute themself for food.

[Deleted]

They wouldn't. He's just making stuff up. The state isn't going to force you to take a job you find morally objectionable. We don't see nations currently forcing people to do pornography, now do we?

I struggle to understand why would the state come and force you to prostitute yourself.

[Kasierith]

Not necessarily. Again, in a fully legalised environment I would suddenly think about the brothels away from the red light district. The ones where lights aren't shiny and controls aren't frequent.

You mean like the population that already uses the services of prostitutes, albeit with a significantly reduced population? You seem to be implying that all men who hire prostitutes are sadists. I'm pretty confident in saying that this is far from the truth. The majority of people would go for the legal and far, far safer route of the legal method.

What I am saying is fully legalising it on its own would not give you the benefits you and i all are looking for.
To do that you need to tackle human trafficking and criminalise users.

If you don't see how decriminalizing something removes it from criminal activity, I don't really know what to tell you. Prostitution is intrinsically connected to underground organizations because of its legal status.

The rest could work could not work we don't know it works in a few places completely different from big countries where not only it wouldn't address the issue but has the potential to cause a lot of social and physical harm.

What social and physical harm can it cause? You're being very general for the purposes of not having something to elaborate on.

Why/how/where would any state do that?

By being as selective as possible in our perception of how the social structure of a state works, of course!

[smelltheglove]

I struggle to understand why would the state come and force you to prostitute yourself.

reeve was responding to a goofball slippery slope argument somebody put out there

[Reeve]

reeve was responding to a goofball slippery slope argument somebody put out there

I'm assuming he was just agreeing with me.

[smelltheglove]

I'm assuming he was just agreeing with me.

probably, i dont always fully understand what he is getting at. not a poke at him, more my own occasional density

[Deleted]

Well, I always viewed it as disgusting, immoral, and the prostitutes should just die.
But now and then you hear of a prostitute (or moreso, strippers) who HATE the job but do it to feed a kid or something like that. So it's a difficult one

[Reeve]

Well, I always viewed it as disgusting, immoral, and the prostitutes should just die.
But now and then you hear of a prostitute (or moreso, strippers) who HATE the job but do it to feed a kid or something like that. So it's a difficult one

Well that's a pretty horrible standpoint. And you think THEY'RE the ones who are immoral?

I've known at least one former prostitute, and she was a very nice lady who was hard working and seemed to have her life more or less together.

[Deleted]

You mean like the population that already uses the services of prostitutes, albeit with a significantly reduced population? You seem to be implying that all men who hire prostitutes are sadists. I'm pretty confident in saying that this is far from the truth. The majority of people would go for the legal and far, far safer route of the legal method.


If you don't see how decriminalizing something removes it from criminal activity, I don't really know what to tell you. Prostitution is intrinsically connected to underground organizations because of its legal status.


What social and physical harm can it cause? You're being very general for the purposes of not having something to elaborate on.



By being as selective as possible in our perception of how the social structure of a state works, of course!

Not sure if all but I'm pretty sure many are. Considering all the information about human trafficking there is out there you really have to live in a cave, or don't give a fuck about others.

You don't see how? Where would prostitutes come from?

Social harm cause it interact with relationship. A lot.
Physical cause it does. Tenfold chances to get std's, even in a legal environment mind you, possible physical abuse that DOES happen...
Come on I mean its not like I'm saying the state will come and take your kids.

[Rukentuts]

Not sure if all but I'm pretty sure many are. Considering all the information about human trafficking there is out there you really have to live in a cave, or don't give a fuck about others.

You don't see how? Where would prostitutes come from?

Probably a similar place strippers come from.