Welfare and Octomom

[Hiricine]

You can legally cut off someones welfare, but you can not legally force a person to get an abortion.

Well if we're talking about legality, almost anything under the sun is fair game. Forced abortions would be as simple as having people sign on the dotted line "In accepting welfare I grant the state the right to forcibly abort any child I have". We'd just need a legislature awesomely insane enough to make it legal.

[skrump]

Completely random question but related to the welfare issue: in the US, can illegal immigrants obtain any sort of benefit/aid from such services?

Yep they do it all the time, come over here and shit out their babies and then proceed to enjoy the ride because since the baby was born here it is indeed considered a citizen.

Even non citizen children are cared for to a certain extent and often times allow the mother to escape deportation due to the public outrage of one being unsympathetic to a child regardless of it's nationality.

I myself am not one of those people I believe I child should only be born as a citizen if one of their parents is already a citizen, otherwise drop them back off on their side of whatever boarder their mother crossed to get here.

[Grimbold21]

Yep they do it all the time, come over here and shit out their babies and then proceed to enjoy the ride because since the baby was born here it is indeed considered a citizen.

Even non citizen children are cared for to a certain extent and often times allow the mother to escape deportation due to the public outrage of one being unsympathetic to a child regardless of it's nationality.

I myself am not one of those people I believe I child should only be born as a citizen if one of their parents is already a citizen, otherwise drop them back off on their side of whatever boarder their mother crossed to get here.

And outside of that scenario?

Because i've heard of cases where illegal immigrants who , for whatever reason, became unemployed and were unable to pay their bills, made use of such services or institutions.
Im talking giving them money for rent, gas/electric bill, food etc

[Purlina]

Well if we're talking about legality, almost anything under the sun is fair game. Forced abortions would be as simple as having people sign on the dotted line "In accepting welfare I grant the state the right to forcibly abort any child I have". We'd just need a legislature awesomely insane enough to make it legal.

That's not a forced abortion, that would be a voluntary one since you agree to have one...


If you latter disagree they can not tie you down and perform an abortion, all they could do is stop the welfare payments.

[skrump]

[/COLOR]

Well if we're talking about legality, almost anything under the sun is fair game. Forced abortions would be as simple as having people sign on the dotted line "In accepting welfare I grant the state the right to forcibly abort any child I have". We'd just need a legislature awesomely insane enough to make it legal.

Though I think it is an excellent idea I think the religious zealots would somehow convince the legislature that it would be religious persecution even though it isn't because they are given the option to abandon government aid and stay true to their religion or abandon their religion to keep receiving government aid.

Then again if you are religious and a single mother their is a high probability that you have already abandoned the teaching of your religion on at least one occasion so what harm will doing it once more cause.

[Hiricine]

And outside of that scenario?

Because i've heard of cases where illegal immigrants who , for whatever reason, became unemployed and were unable to pay their bills, made use of such services or institutions.
Im talking giving them money for rent, gas/electric bill, food etc

Well if you want a very clear-cut example, as an Emergency Room employee, a non-english speaking couple goes to the ER with no documentation at all, with no intention of paying and receives services mandated to be given to them by the government. The hospital increases everyone else's bill to recoup the loss, and society ends up paying through medicare.

[Tinykong]

Why is this major news, because Octomom is involved? A mutual friend of my wife and I is on food stamps, WIC and welfare, and lives in a 2,500 sq foot house with her husband and 6 kids. What did they do when benefits recently got reduced? Had another kid to keep the dollars coming in. Nothing new here, people have been gaming the system as long as the system has been around.

[Purlina]

Well if you want a very clear-cut example, as an Emergency Room employee, a non-english speaking couple goes to the ER with no documentation at all, with no intention of paying and receives services mandated to be given to them by the government. The hospital increases everyone else's bill to recoup the loss, and society ends up paying through medicare.

Well yeah, legally the ER can't turn anyone away. (Depending on the state)

[Tinykong]

Well if you want a very clear-cut example, as an Emergency Room employee, a non-english speaking couple goes to the ER with no documentation at all, with no intention of paying and receives services mandated to be given to them by the government. The hospital increases everyone else's bill to recoup the loss, and society ends up paying through medicare.

Why should health care organizations be protected from business losses?

[Rukentuts]

Why should health care organizations be protected from business losses?

If Obamacare got thrown out by SCOTUS that would be my exact argument. Would probably work better than the mandate anyway.

[GennGreymane]

just going to throw a wrench in here about welfare in general

[Seranthor]

Me? Pro-life?

Seriously?

PS: I find the mere suggestion I'm a Republican utterly hilarious, considering this is a topic where even Wells labeled Octomom as "waste".

left or right, liberal or conservative; it seems that many of us that rankly disagree with each other seem to have a consensus about Octomom.

---------- Post added 2013-01-09 at 06:50 PM ----------

14 kids was the norm back before contraception was available for most people

yes, and back when that happened folks were responsible enough to raise their own kids without leeching off of society. Perhaps you should invest some of your time in finding out what her parents have had to say about the mental state and motivations of their daughter.

[GennGreymane]

plus those 14 kids worked

on the farm

or in a factory

[aztr0]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...celebrity&ncid

the comments really got me thinking. What the fuck is it with people? Because she gets something like $4,000 people are saying "see this is why there needs to be a welfare overhaul!"

She was on welfare, got off welfare, but as raising 14 kids is quite expensive, got back on it as she doesn't make enough money.

If she don't have money, what business does she have having 14 kids? And there is a serious need for welfare overhaul. There are too many people that get on welfare who do not deserve it at all. I've seen too many of these people cheating my tax dollars.

[chadwix]

http://dailycaller.com/2013/01/09/ne...ps-in-fy-2011/

"The Census estimates there were 73.9 million children living in the United States in 2011, meaning that 26.9 percent of children, or approximately one in four, were on food stamps in 2011."

The numbers went up in 2012. Its not limited to octomom. The best solution would be forced abortions and tube tying for repeat offenders, good luck getting that one passed. Also good luck having republicans support anything related to abortion. The problem will only get worse, much like a beehive, only they dont give any honey, only eat it.

[Deleted]

What is with people? She shouldn't be eligible for welfare. The idea of rewarding people for abusing their reproductive capibility is mind blowing. Personally? This woman should be steralized and the kids she can't provide for taken away and put into state care.

She cannot possibly raise 14 kids, it's impossible for one person to do and she doesn't have money to pay for additional care takers.

So your against the state giving THE MOTHER money to raise the children... the future citizens on the country, but you would be happy for them to go into state care in which the government would still be paying for them, but their live would disrupted because they were removed from the mother

you are honestly an example of why democracy fails

---------- Post added 2013-01-10 at 01:29 AM ----------

If she don't have money, what business does she have having 14 kids? And there is a serious need for welfare overhaul. There are too many people that get on welfare who do not deserve it at all. I've seen too many of these people cheating my tax dollars.

how can you deny a woman with 14 kids welfare, you understand that she had octuplets - 8 at once, this wasnt something she decided to do

[Deleted]

It's because she had 8 kids when she already had 6 and she was a single mother. Pretty much anyone should discern that unless you're independently wealthy, it's not going to happen financially.

It's basically a case of somebody's blatantly reckless actions costing taxpayers a sizable bill.

Yeh shes a tard for getting 14 kids when being a single mom.

On the other hand:
Facebook pays just 5$ a year on taxes PER billion dollar they make. Most multinationals do the same.
Over 500 triljon american dollars are stashed away in offshore accounts dodging taxes.

With our taxrates (holland) of 52% and a little more balls hanging on your government, they would've already solved the crisis.
Reckless actions costing taxpayers sizable bills? Try 4000,- a month v.s. 500 trillion. Greedy multinationals screwing you over bro, open le eyes.

[Garnier Fructis]

how can you deny a woman with 14 kids welfare, you understand that she had octuplets - 8 at once, this wasnt something she decided to do

Having more kids after she already had 6 was most definitely something she decided to do. She needs the welfare to take care of her soccer team, but holy hell she is one of the most ridiculous people I've had the misfortune to read about.

[Sarojini]

Excluding the physical pain and sometimes mental stress the jobs can produce depending on where you work. It isn't so black and white when *getting a job* and having to stick with it.

It's funny, I live where there is no "welfare state". I see little old ladies working as street cleaners well beyond what would be deemed retirement age in the US.
They may be old, infirm, in pain, yet they still work, through from -10 to 35 degrees, they are there every day. People do what they have to.

There are always jobs. However, there aren't enough jobs people are willing to do.

[Seranthor]

So your against the state giving THE MOTHER money to raise the children... the future citizens on the country, but you would be happy for them to go into state care in which the government would still be paying for them, but their live would disrupted because they were removed from the mother

you are honestly an example of why democracy fails

---------- Post added 2013-01-10 at 01:29 AM ----------



how can you deny a woman with 14 kids welfare, you understand that she had octuplets - 8 at once, this wasnt something she decided to do

Actually, it WAS... You should actually invest the time to read what her mother has said, and some of the relevant information... She infact DID insist on having multiple eggs planted IVF.

---------- Post added 2013-01-09 at 09:12 PM ----------

Yeh shes a tard for getting 14 kids when being a single mom.

On the other hand:
Facebook pays just 5$ a year on taxes PER billion dollar they make. Most multinationals do the same.
Over 500 triljon american dollars are stashed away in offshore accounts dodging taxes.

With our taxrates (holland) of 52% and a little more balls hanging on your government, they would've already solved the crisis.
Reckless actions costing taxpayers sizable bills? Try 4000,- a month v.s. 500 trillion. Greedy multinationals screwing you over bro, open le eyes.

$5 per billion you say?... This I want to see the citation for... otherwise you are making shit up. 500 trillion you say? I'd like to see your citation for this as well... Since according to the World Bank the GDP of the entire planet isn't even 70 trillion.