High Elves: Is it really what the player base wants?

[Deleted]

What they would most likely do is take the Blood Elf model, retexture their default skin tones and eye colors, implement new voice acting, jokes, emotes, flirts, create brand new faces for the race that Blood Elves don't have access to, and redo their animations so they are nothing like the blood elves'.

Different swing animations, different dance animations, different cower animations, different casting animations, different mount riding posture, etc. etc.

Why should they? The pandaren don't have different animations either depending on their faction. Neither should those elves have any differences.
Apart from the eye color they should remain 100% equal in every way.

[Deleted]

Blood elves and high elves are for the most part the same race in terms of underlying physical biology.[16] However, blood elves have glowing green eyes and their hair and skin are much paler or otherwise unnaturally coloured,[18] due to the absorption of fel energies during the period the Sunwell was lost. For the most part however, they are considered separate due to cultural differences more so than because of physical ones.[19]

Thats from the wiki. They are a little different. That doesn't matter. All humans came from the same group of humans. That evolved into white skin, black skin, tall people, short people, and many more differences. The same happened to those two groups of elves according to the wiki.

But that doesn;t matter, same model? Like the horde/alliance pandas? Technically, H elves were the same as N elves. Does that mean B elves shouldn't be in the game?

I'm not sure what points you're trying to make here. You just seem to be repeating the same tired argument for the most part then throwing in some random bits of nonsense.

[Deleted]

You're strawmanning the issue and using a fallacy fallacy to try and disprove my point.

If I played basketball against my little brother, he wouldn't have the same moves as me because we're the same species. If you and I got into a fist fight, we wouldn't have the same moves because we're the same species.

If Aethas and Vereesa played basketball against each other, they would'nt have the same moves. If Vereesa and Aethas got into a magic duel, they wouldn't have the same moves.

You're comparing apples with oranges. Try comparing Vereesa with Liadrin, and you'll find they have exactly the same moves.

[Boogums]

You're comparing apples with oranges. Try comparing Vereesa with Liadrin, and you'll find they have exactly the same moves.

That's the point. High Elves and Blood Elves are apples and oranges. Yes they're both fruit, that doesn't mean their the same fruit

---------- Post added 2013-01-09 at 01:01 AM ----------

Why should they? The pandaren don't have different animations either depending on their faction. Neither should those elves have any differences.
Apart from the eye color they should remain 100% equal in every way.

UGH, such shortsightedness.

The Pandaren lived their ENTIRE FUCKING LIVES ON THE SAME GODAMN ISLAND. They spent the last, MAYBE 5 months as members of the Horde and Alliance respectively. Their mannerisms, culture, and body types wouldn't change because of that.

High Elves and Blood Elves are PHYSIOLOGICALLY DIFFERENT because of what happened at the Sunwell. Blood Elves don't give birth to tanner, blue eyed, high elf babies, they give birth to Blood Elves.

Their cultures are different (and were different BEFORE the Sunwell).

[Feral Camel]

While I would not play them. I'd love to see them as a playable race...

On the condition we get the Dark Iron Dwarfs.

[Deleted]

High Elves and Blood Elves are PHYSIOLOGICALLY DIFFERENT

Not at all.

[Deleted]

I, nor Blizzard, really gives a fuck about players crying about shit like that.

"IT'S NOT FAIR THAT GOBLINS GET A ROCKET JUMP RACIAL, I WANT IT ON MY BLOOD ELF."

No, no one gives a shit.

Poor comparison as you're comparing two different races. Belfs are simply Helf's with a different name. They would share the same racials except for torrent which is an ability belfs choose to learn.

You're right in that blood elves and high elves are the same species, that DOESN'T mean they're the same race, (distinct populations or groups by anatomical, cultural, ethnic, genetic, geographical, historical, linguistic, religious, and/or social affiliation) and that doesn't mean they would reuse the same models and animations.

What they would most likely do is take the Blood Elf model, retexture their default skin tones and eye colors, implement new voice acting, jokes, emotes, flirts, create brand new faces for the race that Blood Elves don't have access to, and redo their animations so they are nothing like the blood elves'.

Different swing animations, different dance animations, different cower animations, different casting animations, different mount riding posture, etc. etc.

Yes belf culture is different now from helf but not by much. Like i said adding a couple of new faces is a pretty weak basis to create faction difference but you do have a point about animations.

I just can't see some minor tweaking being worth it though.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

I'm not sure what points you're trying to make here. You just seem to be repeating the same tired argument for the most part then throwing in some random bits of nonsense.

That was directly from the wiki. You aren't disproving anything I have said, just repeating the same tired "defense" over and over.

Why should they? The pandaren don't have different animations either depending on their faction. Neither should those elves have any differences.
Apart from the eye color they should remain 100% equal in every way.

You are conveniently forgetting huge differences between pandas and elves. The blood/high elves split a long time ago, and had a long time to change in many ways, while we only recently found Pandaria, and members of an intact culture picked horde/alliance.

---------- Post added 2013-01-09 at 02:11 AM ----------

While I would not play them. I'd love to see them as a playable race...

On the condition we get the Dark Iron Dwarfs.

How would that even make sense at all? I don't remember the dark irons ever associating with the horde, ever.

[Roulette Kneebasha]

The only Elves I'd be interested in seeing added are Naga. But that's me. I like visual diversity and tension between reluctant allies.

The thing about these debates is that neither side is ever going to convince the other. I am not interested in Elves. I'm just not. Nor am I going to talk anybody else out of their love of Elves, nor do I wish to. I just don't get why 3 versions of them are necessary when there's only one kind of playable Troll, Dwarf, Goblin, Orc, Draenei, Gnome, Forsaken, and Tauren. (unless you count Worgen as Humans) and I don't see that view changing anytime soon either. Especially when we could have something genuinely different and unique. It's all opinion and individual tastes. Each person just wants what they want. /shrug

I don't think I've EVER seen anyone's mind changed about what races they enjoy or would like to see added changed by one of these debates. On any forum. Ever.

[Thelxi]

Yes. It is just is something that is missing from the alliance side of the game, and IMO high elves should have been an alliance race at launch.

Naga would be another race that would actually interest me.

Just as a side note, DK's panda's and monks didn't interest me in the very least. Couldn't care less if they deleted them all from the game.

[Solzan Nemesis]

Not at all.

[IMG]http://images.wikia.com/wowwiki/images/7/76/Vereesa_Windrunner.jpg[IMG]

All I see is a traitor.

[Deleted]

The blood/high elves split a long time ago, and had a long time to change in many ways, while we only recently found Pandaria, and members of an intact culture picked horde/alliance.

5 years is hardly a long time ago, when Kael'thas decided to make the split.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

5 years is hardly a long time ago, when Kael'thas decided to make the split.

Considering vanilla WoW was 4 years after that, I don't think everything from Vanilla-BC-Wrath-Cata-Now was only 1 year.

[Boogums]

You people are too stuck up on what their character models are in-game. Just because they share a model in-game doesn't mean they're not physiologically different lore-wise.

Poor comparison as you're comparing two different races. Belfs are simply Helf's with a different name. They would share the same racials except for torrent which is an ability belfs choose to learn.

Let's look at the Belf racials that actually matter.

Arcane Torrent - "Deprived of the Sunwell, the sin'dorei have learned new techniques for manipulating arcane magic."
High Elves wouldn't have this, they never used the Sunwell, weren't addicted to magic.

So yea, they'd have to make a new signature racial for High Elves.

Yes belf culture is different now from helf but not by much. Like i said adding a couple of new faces is a pretty weak basis to create faction difference but you do have a point about animations.

I just can't see some minor tweaking being worth it though.

Redoing their facial structure and redoing their animations so they're completely different from the Blood Elves isn't a "minor tweak." That's like saying them creating the current Worgen PC model was a "minor tweak" to the old worgen model because all they did was change their fur texture, face, and animations.

You could also do other "minor" things that differentiate the too. The way they stand, their idle animations, their height, of course their skin color would be a bit different as well as their eye color.

To reiterate, I'm not saying High Elves would be done to the point where they're indistinguishable from any current incarnation of them, but they would done in a way where they would be a different race from the Blood Elves.

[Deleted]

Considering vanilla WoW was 4 years after that, I don't think everything from Vanilla-BC-Wrath-Cata-Now was only 1 year.

Even 10-20 years isn't enough to justify changes. North Koreans and South Koreans are still exactly the same race too, apart from their cultural and ideological differences.

[Boogums]

5 years is hardly a long time ago, when Kael'thas decided to make the split.

In the current timeline, on Pandaria right now, it's been about 15 - 20 years since Kael'thas split.

[Cirque]

I'm of the belief we have more than enough elves in this game as is, and I'd much rather have new races that are refreshing and exciting. All new races have been this for me, high elves would feel like a huge disappointment, unless they make it something completely new and awesome, with cool features, an amazing starting zone, a story that is interesting - and not just a reskinned belf.

[Boogums]

Even 10-20 years isn't enough to justify changes. North Koreans and South Koreans are still exactly the same race too, apart from their cultural and ideological differences.

Yea, but if North Korea had a huge nuclear meltdown that changed their chemical structure, it doesn't matter how much time passes for you to see the difference.

[TheWindWalker]

You're strawmanning the issue and using a fallacy fallacy to try and disprove my point.

So you're going to use the ad hominem fallacy to prove it? Nice work.

If I played basketball against my little brother, he wouldn't have the same moves as me because we're the same species. If you and I got into a fist fight, we wouldn't have the same moves because we're the same species. If Shaq and Jordan got into a basketball match, their moves wouldn't be the same because they're both the same species.

If Ancient Rome and Africa got into a war, their weapons, fighting styles, and armor wouldn't be the same because they're the same species.

If Aethas and Vereesa played basketball against each other, they would'nt have the same moves. If Vereesa and Aethas got into a magic duel, they wouldn't have the same moves.

Speaking of a Red Herring. At no point are we talking about two lore characters having a fight or playing a sport or being compared.

We're talking about two generic people from two groups. Why is this so hard for you? If we have "Generic High Elf" in the character creation screen, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever for them to have a race-based difference from Blood Elves. That's the debate here. We aren't talking about Kael'thas and Vereesa, where do you keep getting this from? You don't start a new toon and say "Do I want to play Garrosh or Tyrande?" You say "Do I want to play a generic Orc or Night Elf."

You're confusing the concepts and using the word "fallacy" to win an argument without actually providing any substance and until you can do that, I'm as good as done trying to explain my position.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Even 10-20 years isn't enough to justify changes. North Koreans and South Koreans are still exactly the same race too, apart from their cultural and ideological differences.

I wonder if they would say the same thing about each other.

What about this?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17774210

Back to this game about fantasy, so, the High Elves avoid their magic addiction/corruption, and the blood elves keep on abused it, followed Kael'thas through the portal and back, rebuild the Sunwell, and you think they will look/act/be 100% the same as the former?

---------- Post added 2013-01-09 at 02:30 AM ----------

So you're going to use the ad hominem fallacy to prove it? Nice work.



Speaking of a Red Herring. At no point are we talking about two lore characters having a fight or playing a sport or being compared.

We're talking about two generic people from two groups. Why is this so hard for you? If we have "Generic High Elf" in the character creation screen, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever for them to have a race-based difference from Blood Elves. That's the debate here. We aren't talking about Kael'thas and Vereesa, where do you keep getting this from? You don't start a new toon and say "Do I want to play Garrosh or Tyrande?" You say "Do I want to play a generic Orc or Night Elf."

You're confusing the concepts and using the word "fallacy" to win an argument without actually providing any substance and until you can do that, I'm as good as done trying to explain my position.

Well, the wiki says they do look differently, and you could assume such as the different life paths the two have taken, no offense, but I doubt you are a culture or WoW lore aficionado as well..... so I don't see why they couldn't have difference, especially the attack animations/voices.