Mistweaver pve vs other healers

[Tavin]

So we all know that once mist weaver were grossly op. but now once were all about same geared 500-505 I'm falling quite far behind shaman, priests and paladins. In most fights in 25 heroic. Zorlok, is one that I got crushed at.

How are you all experiencing this? Healing against other classes who are equally geared and skilled? Can't seem to keep up anymore

[Shinchib]

This says it all:
http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Spec_...00000000111111

[Deleted]

Being at "only" 6/16 hc 25m (+ Zorlok hc in 10m) most of the time I come in 3rd behind our two disciplin priests, sometimes even second or first, depending on fight, job on the fight, etc. Usually our shaman(s) and paladin have to heal tank with the occasional off-heal while me, the disc priest(s) and the resto druid(s) are on raid duty. So the only real competition are the disciplin priests, driving me nuts by preventing so much raiddamage via Spirit Shell that not even my hots geht to tick.

[Deleted]

This says it all:
http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Spec_...00000000111111

That's about as useful as posting world of logs with no context or explanation.

Raidbots and WoL only tell part of the story, anyone on raid healing duty will always be top of those meters and therefor Disc priests are enjoying the wonderful QQ that mistweavers got when we were top, the irony is that not only are disc priests posting bigger numbers than mistweavers were, but they also provide alot more utility and also Barrier which if you could quantify would push them even further ahead. Also Disc priests are still one of the best tank healers, which is kind of a slap in the face compared to where mistweavers are.

I play mistweaver as an offspec and regularly top meters, although we just recruited a disc who has worse gear than me and have noticed my numbers drop a fair bit and him take top spot on a few fights. The thing that frustrated me is that our toolset is so limited, yes a good player can still use a few tricks to make our healing more effective (although alot of those tricks are being removed in the lvl 30 talent changes come 5.2) but I feel like I have to work alot harder to be an effective part of the healing team and even then my uses are very limited (raid heal or oom unless the fight involves massive regen).

Tbh right now I feel like we are probably the weakest healer with the only exception to this being druids when you consider utility, flexibility and throughput.

[Astraios]

I raid 25m heroic, we have all 16H essentially on farm. I tend to top meters still, that or behind (but very close to) our MS disc priest. Exceptions include: wind lord, MGV where disc/holy pally absorb everything and I'm normally on alts anyway. I generally get to raid heal. When I don't play like shit like my most recent vizier kill I generally stomp on the other healers (this is specifically about vizier). Ability to run the circle while eminence or uplift healing lets me snipe a lot of heals others cannot. Also complete lack of any mana problems in general(going into p3 empress with 99% mana Dafuq) at relatively low levels of spirit is retarded.
Anyway that being said, I would place MW as above Druids and below everything else because of our complete lack of utility other than a slight raid damage increase and very high personal survivability. Our throughput has the highest potential by far of any healer, but in most cases lack of smart heals means a lot of that throughput is overheals, ESP with disc around. (Which as has been said, disc is putting out pre-nerf MW logs with most of it being absorbs and they haven't been nerfed. It's literally retarded.) but our throughput is still sick. I often hold around 150k night phase of h Tsulong.

[elkewtf]

I am one of my raid's top healers. The only ones I compete with is our H Pally and H Priest. I am always top 3, and usually am first. The only healers that I've noticed that seem to be super weak right now on resto druids, they really need a buff.

[Deleted]

There is no doubt that a Mistweaver in the hands of someone who knows how to use it can still produce, but, how many situations would you find taking a misteaver would increase the strength of a healing team assuming the players were equally skilled/geared? In that comparison we stomp druids straight up, I can't really think of one situations a rdruid would be stronger, other than maybe if you wanted a healer to control adds............

When you compare a monk to any other healer it become alot less favourable and ultimately the healing team would have to shuffle around to fit the misteaver in, where as if you look at pally/priest/shaman, they are all able to bring strong utility and also fill multiple roles, meaning the chance of you being able to take advantage of your healers strength are much greater without a mistweaver basically dominating a raid healing spot because they can't do anything else.

They really need to make monk tank healing viable and give us some proper utility before I think Mistweavers can be a flexible part of a robust healing team, otherwise top end mistweavers will always need alts or offspecs, yey for WW and BM buffs in 5.2

[Lilly32]

I thought monk healers were OP? Now how come people are saying they are the weakest?

[Astraios]

There is no doubt that a Mistweaver in the hands of someone who knows how to use it can still produce, but, how many situations would you find taking a misteaver would increase the strength of a healing team assuming the players were equally skilled/geared? In that comparison we stomp druids straight up, I can't really think of one situations a rdruid would be stronger, other than maybe if you wanted a healer to control adds............

When you compare a monk to any other healer it become alot less favourable and ultimately the healing team would have to shuffle around to fit the misteaver in, where as if you look at pally/priest/shaman, they are all able to bring strong utility and also fill multiple roles, meaning the chance of you being able to take advantage of your healers strength are much greater without a mistweaver basically dominating a raid healing spot because they can't do anything else.

They really need to make monk tank healing viable and give us some proper utility before I think Mistweavers can be a flexible part of a robust healing team, otherwise top end mistweavers will always need alts or offspecs, yey for WW and BM buffs in 5.2

To be honest, between chi wave and healing sphere we will probably be solid tank healers next patch. At least in high-throughput times. As well as adding to our spot-healing capabilities. But yeah we could use some work, some fights were amazingly powerful and others, shit. Much more so than other healers.

We were OP 2 hotfixes and a patch ago.

[elkewtf]

I think everyone needs to give the class some time to mature and to be improved upon. I really have no problems with throughput, unless I'm tank healing which isn't often. They wouldn't have added a new class to the game without making sure it would be useful.

[Astraios]

We have no utility, and we have no on demand smart heals (eminence is very expensive and very weak comparing to, say, atonement. On the other hand it's available during our high-HPS rotations. Balanced? Sure. But it means we almost universally lack the tools to handle low-raid damage/spike damage on certain people, but are amazing at raid damage. It's a design flaw as far as I'm concerned). Against well-played disc priests, your throughput will suffer immensely due to RNG (your ReM on a target they have shielded or crit PoH on). As well, other classes CD's being smart heals will snipe a lot of our potential healing as well.

From a min-max perspective, we bring nothing special to a raid other than RNG blanket throughput. That throughput is not necessary when other classes can bring within 10% of that (or more *cough disc priests cough*) AND smart heals/utility/powerful CD's. Further, they specifically DON'T want us to be "too useful" and in doing so have very clearly made us NOT "useful". Theres one fight where we shine. Two if your other healers need to be carried (garalon). Other than druids because of their COMPLETE lack of throughput, we're very low on the healing totem pole. Rshams are always useful, their CD's are insane. Disc is...well it's disc, nuff said. Holy paladins, you always need a tank healer. Holy priests? Well, they're as strong as disc is throughput wise, but their healing is...well healing, and not absorbs. So disc is better. But holy is still very powerful. Regardless, other than rdruids (who, I feel, will be in a very strong place if the mushroom change is left in for next patch), MW'ers are FAR below every other healer (rdruids are with us though ). Obviously you CAN make it work. My 16/16H guild often brings 2 for a lot of fights (whether thats due to lack of rsham, too lazy to switch healers out depending on fights if no one needs loot, lack of replacements, or the fact that its farm and we've already completed it this way so why change now) and we clear things just fine. Healing is not like the other aspects. Every healer is capable of FAR more output than they actually are required to do in fights. As such, sub-par healing classes can complete content. But the difference is, the above three make it SMOOTHER, have significantly improved chances to save someone low on health, AND all mesh well together. MW basically require that others watch the tanks.

[Dreyo]

I'm not clear what you mean by "on-demand smart heal."

What is an example from another class?

[Spotnick]

We do have a "on-demand smart heal", it's called glyphed surging mist.

Granted nobody uses that, but it's there.

[Astraios]

On demand smart heal?
Light of Dawn
circle of healing
Healing Stream Totem
WG.
Any strong instant cast is an acceptable replacement: Holy Shock, riptide (sort of), eternal flame, atonement, PW:S, PoM, swiftmend can technically work.
It takes a long ramp up of keeping up tigers palm or a ridiculous mana cost to use surging mist, even as a smart heal. The others are relatively cheap.

[Shinchib]

We do have a "on-demand smart heal", it's called glyphed surging mist.

Granted nobody uses that, but it's there.

If you're surging mist, you're doing it wrong. There are better classes for this namely chain heal and spirit link (to add to the above list)

[Spotnick]

Chi Wave, Xuen, Crackling Jade Lightning, duplicate soothing mist any melee attack with serpent's zeal you do, all instant stuff that are smart heals. Maybe Chi Waves needs Chi, but this is why you can bank it.

You really need more smart healing? I'm not even saying renewing mist jumping to injured targets only that you can uplift any time you want.

[Deleted]

I think everyone needs to give the class some time to mature and to be improved upon. I really have no problems with throughput, unless I'm tank healing which isn't often. They wouldn't have added a new class to the game without making sure it would be useful.

I really don't find this kind of blind faith helpful. It's not like we are crying and saying "I'm rerolling to disc priest kthxbai". Discussing the class weakness and identifying where we as a healer are lacking is exactly how the class moves towards being balanced and is also what helps those playing the class identify where they can contribute best and where they should try to avoid.

What I have noticed is that those who play the class at a reasonable to high level are acutely aware of the limitation where as those who don't play the class or play it at a more casual level just look a logs and see monks doing ok and stand back and proclaim "all is well so stop the qq"

[TheTrueM4gg0t]

Chi Wave, Xuen, Crackling Jade Lightning, duplicate soothing mist any melee attack with serpent's zeal you do, all instant stuff that are smart heals. Maybe Chi Waves needs Chi, but this is why you can bank it.

You really need more smart healing? I'm not even saying renewing mist jumping to injured targets only that you can uplift any time you want.

I don't think thats what he was trying to say. we don't need more smartheals, we have allready got a lot, as you mentioned. (bot most of the are only small lull-phase heals)
what I personally often notice that's missing, is the high spotheal spell. or lets say the greater heal type of spell. I love enveloping for tankhealing, but when you're spothealing, by the time you've Smoothed (built up chi)+envelopped, all the intelligent heals (like chainheal, CoH etc) and bigger spotheals have brought the guy to full health. and ReMing that target is also a waste.
Chi Wave is the only semi-usefull thing we have, but is RNG (and still horribly slow jumping arround when traveling far)

edit: in theory, this would be the perfect situation for Healing Spheres, but how keep track of where 25 people are standing when spread about :-((

[Korrah]

I am allways ( or very close behind or Hpala ) at the top in my raids.
I'm not that great geared and I find the class to be extremly fun to play. ( Wich i do not with Healing priest/Restoshaman/Restodruid ).
The only thing i have a problem with is the tank healing, sure enveloping is great, but to soothe->Surge x3-> enveloping might be all the time the tank needs to die.

And would love if we could cast the coccoon when channeling soothing. (Even tho I rearly uses soothing, as I'm mostly just fistweave and keep Renewing up on the raid.)

[Deleted]

What would be nice would be something along the lines of "When cast Surging Mist on a target that is under the effect of Enveloping Mist you're Surging Mist cost x% less mana (and maybe even applies 15%ish additional healing over 6 seconds). I think that would allow us to keep a nice level of healing on tanks without making us crazy OP. In theory it shouldn't affect PvP too much either as the hot wouldn't be that strong and getting Surging Mists off in arena is not that easy against good teams. Just a thought but it would bring us some nice tank synergy.