FIA Formula 1 World Championship 2013 Discussion Thread

[kidsafe]

That doesn't really matter though, they had reached the stage where both drivers had past any threat from behind, they were both struggling with tier ware and they had both been given an order by the team to reduce speed and save the tiers...as always mark follows the teams orders and vettel chose to ignore them to grab some cheap points at a stage in the championship where they don't really matter yet.
After so many time for Webber following team orders even forced to follow them, Vettel should do the same and Mark is rightfully pissed about it

I'm not taking sides, merely being objective. Vettel should have never put the two cars at risk with his aggressive driving, but let's be honest he is the better/faster driver. Individual championship points matter now as much as they matter in the final race of the season, team championship points were what didn't matter as long as both cars made the finish.

Doesn't that put things into perspective even more? It kind of highlights that Webber had more issues saving the tyres than Vettel on race day, which, considering he was still slower when Vettel wasn't forced to back off, doesn't reflect well on him.

Vettel didn't exactly have DRS from Webber all race.

Vettel is clearly a superior driver, but he is now also clearly a bigger douche than Webber ever was.

And no, Vettel was not faster than Webber all day...that simply could not have been the case since Webber started P2 and led the race coming out of his final pit stop. Webber's fastest race lap was 1:40.685 while Vettel's was 1’40.446 during the final stint (both on lap 45) as the cars continued to shed fuel. Webber was within .25s on inferior tires and without DRS at that time too.

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/03/2...-fastest-laps/

Deselect everyone but Vettel and Webber and you will see that Vettel is only consistently faster from lap 45 on.

[Coffer]

Vettel is clearly a superior driver, but he is now also clearly a bigger douche than Webber ever was.

I have my doubts about that. Being ruthless, competitive and hungry for wins doesn't necessarily make you a douche. Webber, on the other hand...

And no, Vettel was not faster than Webber all day...that simply could not have been the case since Webber started P2 and led the race coming out of his final pit stop.

You're forgetting that Red Bull called Vettel in too early at the first stop (cost him 6 seconds) and the anti-stall kicked in on the second stop (another 2 seconds). That was exactly what Webber needed to secure the lead.

Webber's fastest race lap was 1:40.685 while Vettel's was 1’40.446 during the final stint (both on lap 45) as the cars continued to shed fuel. Webber was within .25s on inferior tires and without DRS at that time too.

That's because Vettel stopped pushing once he had a 4s gap. Considering Webber's times got drastically better on lap 50, there was more pace to be extracted in there.

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/03/2...-fastest-laps/

Deselect everyone but Vettel and Webber and you will see that Vettel is only consistently faster from lap 45 on.

Disregarding the intermediate stint:

• Stint 1: Vettel stayed out for 17 laps on medium tyres. Webber, on the other hand, stayed out for 12 laps on the harder compound. Vettel had to keep his tyres alive, which slowed him down. Webber, on the other hand, being on the harder compound and out for 5 fewer laps, pushed much harder. Even so, between the laps that were relevant (10 (Vettel got rid of the traffic) - 18 (before Webber pitted)), Vettel gained a few tenths, meaning he was still faster.
• Stint 2: Vettel, now on the hard compound, was lapping around one second faster than Webber prior to catching him. His team did not let him get past, and once he got the supposed 'look after the tyres' message via team radio he backed off. Unsurprisingly, the very call that followed was directed to Webber, telling him to push.
• Stint 3: Much of the time lost in this stint was due to losing a place to Hamilton, whom he then had to overtake.
• Stint 4: From lap 45 all the way to the end, Vettel was faster. The multi21 call likely came before lap 44, but was promptly canceled on lap 45 when Vettel first attacked, meaning Webber, once again, had full power.

[Deleted]

You're forgetting that Red Bull called Vettel in too early at the first stop (cost him 6 seconds) and the anti-stall kicked in on the second stop (another 2 seconds). That was exactly what Webber needed to secure the lead.

And you're forgetting that it was Vettel's own decision when he wanted to switch to dry tires (the radio chat clearly confirmed that when the team asked him to tell them when he felt he could switch to dry tires)

The thing I found funny though was that time earlier in the race when Vettel said on radio to get Mark out of the way he's too slow. Not only is that a douche thing to say about your own team mate, but there had just been timing info for the last 5 laps where indeed only 1 out of those 5 Vettel was faster.

[kidsafe]

Nearly everyone moved off intermediates the lap after Vettel did, so I don't think RBR made the wrong call there. Webber came in a lap after that.

You forget the medium compound tires had better wear characteristics than the hard tires for both Melbourne and Sepang.

Vettel pitted on lap 43. Webber pitted on lap 44. The pass came at the very end of lap 45...not surprising since Webber's tires weren't even up to temperature.

[Bigbazz]

Webber was running in a low engine mode, which is why he was so angry. Vettel was told to hold position and Webber was told to turn his engine down because Vettel was going to hold position and cruise home. What Vettel did was show he has no respect for his team. He took advantage of the team strategy to make the pass while risking losing everything in the process, fully knowing that he was going to take flak for it.


Definitely lost respect for Vettel, fact is that he has the talent to be a winner without resorting to dirty self serving tactics but he still resorted to them.

[Northern Goblin]

I wish they'd do away with the CC and just have individual drivers be a franchise, not the team.

Might get rid of these stupid team orders and let people race properly from start to finish.

[Coffer]

I wish they'd do away with the CC and just have individual drivers be a franchise, not the team.

Might get rid of these stupid team orders and let people race properly from start to finish.

I don't see the problem with team orders as long as they make sense. Germany 2010 was a perfect example of how they should be used, even though it was Alonso's fault he couldn't get past and TOs were illegal back then.

RB's team orders in Malaysia, on the other hand, did not make sense at all.

---------- Post added 2013-03-30 at 02:13 AM ----------

Also interesting to know that Webber really was considerably slower than Vettel in Malaysia and that multi21 really was a team order and not just a combination of switches or anything.

Hate to say I told you so.

[kidsafe]

Uh, having just watched both clips, Horner is intentionally ambiguous. You're seeing what you want to see. The thing to take away is that you cannot hold back Vettel. He's too good of a driver and he won't comply with team orders...ever.

[Coffer]

Horner is intentionally ambiguous. You're seeing what you want to see.

Duh, it's an interview. How often do you see someone act perfectly honest in one, especially considering how often journalists tend to misquote people, intentionally or unintentionally?

However, that doesn't mean he's lying. If he wanted to appeal to the fanbase as much as possible he would've continued to defend Webber. Don't forget - Vettel apologized yet again yesterday. Now would be the perfect time for Horner to pull something like that. It would make people think that things are perfectly under control at RB.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

Uh, having just watched both clips, Horner is intentionally ambiguous. You're seeing what you want to see. The thing to take away is that you cannot hold back Vettel. He's too good of a driver and he won't comply with team orders...ever.

Which is why he will be staying with Red Bull until Fernando Alonso retires from the sport. Ferrari don't need or want two alphas driving for them. Especially not ones that will ignore the instructions given to them.

[Coffer]

Massa seems to be absolutely on it this weekend. If Alonso's sector times are any indication, though, he might do even better.

Rosberg for pole, Alonso to win.

[Northern Goblin]

This weekend so far has been overshadowed with more people caring about the Red Bull incident than the racing itself. I've actually resorted to muting commentary.

[Coffer]

Excellent lap from Hamilton.

I told you Alonso was hiding something. If Massa's pace on the long runs is any indication, Alonso is going to be a major threat.

I also expect Red Bull to have something in hiding for the race. Webber will likely start from the pit lane, so with the modifications to the car he'll have a very easy time cutting his way through the field as he'll be much faster in the DRS zone. However, I don't expect him to make the same charge as in 2011 (or as Vettel in 2012).

Raikkonen's words will prove prophetic.

GTG predictions:

[Northern Goblin]

If Grosjean was as good a race driver as he is a time trial driver, Lotus would be a considerable threat for the CC this season. Watching the pace of that car right now I can't help but think there's more to come from it.

[Xanjori]

Hoping getting up this early is gonna pay off for me! It's gotta be a good race, I expect Vettel to end up near the top at some point.

[laffling]

Perez shouldn't of got that Mclaren spot over Hulk, Webber is out by damage he got from the Vergne contact.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

The loose tyre could have been from a botched pit stop. Didn't look like the collision would have broken the wheel mount.

[Aure]

Not enough fuel for Webber, Ricciardo running a toro rosso didnt get off the way for Webber as he did before for Vettel, not putting that tyre for Webber correctly... Red Bull is a Mafia.

By the way, that tyre running free is a dangerous as hell

Oh and i love the fact that Kimi is running with the broken front part Hahaha. Gogo Kimi and Alonso. Best drivers with Hamilton... Vettel is a spoiled kid, good driver thou, but not even close to these three

[Shakadam]

Man I really hope that front end on Kimi's Lotus holds together for the entire race Oo


Man there's like an endless stream of pitstops in this race, I have no idea who's actually leading right now lol

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

Man I really hope that front end on Kimi's Lotus holds together for the entire race Oo


Man there's like an endless stream of pitstops in this race, I have no idea who's actually leading right now lol

top 5 (Lap 26):
VET
HUL
ALO
BUT
HAM