Thread: Cyberpunk 2077

  1. #3721
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaktar View Post
    Whether it's a good game or not is a subjective opinion up to each individual. Time will tell where the game lands in gamers' minds. Is player choice consequential to the story? No. Is that a necessary ingredient for a good game? No. Is it shitty that the business promised more than it delivered? Yup.

    The idea that the writing is poor is laughable. To be fair to my earlier point, good or bad story is subjective, but there are technical elements to story construction that I'd argue are less subjective. Are there well defined characters, does the story follow a chain of causation, can it be understood? Yes to all of these - and many writers fail at these basic elements! The story is well constructed, the writers play with the setting in interesting ways I haven't seen before, and many of the characters are memorable, personally I'd give the writing at least a B - haven't finished it yet though and to be fair the ending matters. Is it a contender for best story ever? Probably not, it leans too heavily on tropes for that, but poor? As in shoddily made? Naw.

    Edit: just to add to yours and the reviewer's comments on immersion - we 100% completely disagree on that. I have no problem immersing myself in the game, but to be fair I have any imagination whatsoever, so these minor details don't break my experience.
    We agree on several points. I also think that there are definite objective factors one can use to judge the writing of something like CP2077. We disagree on how the game lands on specific topics but that's cool. It'd be a boring place if we were all the same. Cheers.

  2. #3722
    Quote Originally Posted by Cringefest View Post
    We agree on several points. I also think that there are definite objective factors one can use to judge the writing of something like CP2077. We disagree on how the game lands on specific topics but that's cool. It'd be a boring place if we were all the same. Cheers.
    You had to ruin my fun by being a decent person.

  3. #3723
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaktar View Post
    You had to ruin my fun by being a decent person.
    Ready to engage weren't ya

  4. #3724
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    I'm loving this main story. V is a piece of shit, I want to let Johnny live again.
    I'm enjoying the dialog a lot more than I thought I would as well. Sure, it's cliché and a bit edgy for its own sake at times, but the game knows how to alternate between mercenary tough talk, bouts of asshattery and more heartfelt moments without it feeling jarring. V's a good protagonist, and Johnny grows on me as the game progresses. He's an asshole, no two ways about it, but a fairly interesting one, and that's what matters.

    The story isn't a home run by any means, but it's good enough to keep me interested in what comes next. Just about equal to TW3's I'd say, with better characters if you ask me.
    It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built -Kreia

  5. #3725
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    Speak for yourself, I'm having a blast.
    I actually don't understand the motivation behind these glib posts (I'm not jumping on you specifically you see them like every 4 pages). Don't get me wrong I enjoyed the story and the gunplay and hacking were fine but are you honestly saying you can't see the obvious glaring flaws or do you just not care?

    Like:
    The driving AI, not being AI so any obstruction or deviation just stops the cars moving;
    The wanted AI just spawning police on top of you who give up if you move 300m up the road;
    The NPCs having one canned line and action even if it's inappropriate for the context (like the video of the guy who goes up to an npc comforting someone and she talks about the weather);
    The lack of a helmet toggle;
    The lack of a torch;
    No barbers; or
    No car customization (why can you buy every car in the game if you can't do anything with it).

    Like that's not even getting into the subjective stuff like cyberware and the 'rpg' mechanics being total nothing burgers.

    You are allowed to like something and accept it has flaws, you are allowed to admit you like flawed things.
    Tonight for me is a special day. I want to go outside of the house of the girl I like with a gasoline barrel and write her name on the road and set it on fire and tell her to get out too see it (is this illegal)?

  6. #3726
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapemask View Post
    It's true, films and games are different. But no, a game does not become unplayable by dipping below 30 fps; 24fps was picked by the film industry because it's all your brain needs to be able to perceive motion. It's more than good enough for games, and the rest is just gravy. You've probably become used to very high frame rates, but I think a lot of the issues here are entirely in people's heads. For example, a huge number of games on last gen consoles are/were framerate locked at 30 fps, and the complaints were "I'd like to have more frames if they're available," not, "This game is unplayable because it has so few frames."
    This is not true. 24 fps was chosen by the film industry as a compromise between what looked the best and the financial cost of buying film stock. When films were first being made they were filmed and screened anywhere between like 12 and 25+ fps and things looked janky to the viewers. Later tv shows were mainly shot in 30 fps as that is the ideal viewing rate for perceiving motion. Filmmakers these days keep to the 24 fps standard as it gives viewers that "cinema" quality of their films that generations have gotten used to for decades of viewing.

  7. #3727
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saltysquidoon View Post
    I actually don't understand the motivation behind these glib posts (I'm not jumping on you specifically you see them like every 4 pages). Don't get me wrong I enjoyed the story and the gunplay and hacking were fine but are you honestly saying you can't see the obvious glaring flaws or do you just not care?

    Like:
    The driving AI, not being AI so any obstruction or deviation just stops the cars moving;
    The wanted AI just spawning police on top of you who give up if you move 300m up the road;
    The NPCs having one canned line and action even if it's inappropriate for the context (like the video of the guy who goes up to an npc comforting someone and she talks about the weather);
    The lack of a helmet toggle;
    The lack of a torch;
    No barbers; or
    No car customization (why can you buy every car in the game if you can't do anything with it).

    Like that's not even getting into the subjective stuff like cyberware and the 'rpg' mechanics being total nothing burgers.

    You are allowed to like something and accept it has flaws, you are allowed to admit you like flawed things.
    Its when people just say "Objectively bad" which isn't the case. And in the case of car customization, they never really claimed it would be a thing. The AI doesn't really bother me outside of well kneeling down scared(If they ran it would be far better). Also people seem to love using absolute statements like "Its garbage" "Garbage game" etc etc.

    TLDR: We're taking the game as is not what it could of been.
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance

    Warrior-Magi

  8. #3728
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Its when people just say "Objectively bad" which isn't the case. And in the case of car customization, they never really claimed it would be a thing. The AI doesn't really bother me outside of well kneeling down scared(If they ran it would be far better). Also people seem to love using absolute statements like "Its garbage" "Garbage game" etc etc.

    TLDR: We're taking the game as is not what it could of been.
    Do you have a defence of the driving ai? Is there anything objectively good about it? What about the wanted system? Do you even find anything subjectively good about them?

    How does it not bother you that if you ditch your car for a gig or side quest when you come back there will be four cars just sitting there behind it? This is something gta could do 19 years ago.
    Tonight for me is a special day. I want to go outside of the house of the girl I like with a gasoline barrel and write her name on the road and set it on fire and tell her to get out too see it (is this illegal)?

  9. #3729
    Quote Originally Posted by Saltysquidoon View Post
    I actually don't understand the motivation behind these glib posts (I'm not jumping on you specifically you see them like every 4 pages). Don't get me wrong I enjoyed the story and the gunplay and hacking were fine but are you honestly saying you can't see the obvious glaring flaws or do you just not care?

    Like:
    The driving AI, not being AI so any obstruction or deviation just stops the cars moving;
    The wanted AI just spawning police on top of you who give up if you move 300m up the road;
    The NPCs having one canned line and action even if it's inappropriate for the context (like the video of the guy who goes up to an npc comforting someone and she talks about the weather);
    The lack of a helmet toggle;
    The lack of a torch;
    No barbers; or
    No car customization (why can you buy every car in the game if you can't do anything with it).

    Like that's not even getting into the subjective stuff like cyberware and the 'rpg' mechanics being total nothing burgers.

    You are allowed to like something and accept it has flaws, you are allowed to admit you like flawed things.
    Oh, I'm allowed to like this game? Thx.

    To be more serious, from this game I expected great story, atmosphere (was only Blade Runner fan, but I tell you - people I know who were into CP 2020 REALLY love this game), visuals, music and quests. Was prepared for mediocre shooting, driving and stuff I didn't like in Witcher. Got all this + really enjoy shooting. Oh, and I had so far almost 0 bugs, that's count too (played ~25 hours and I'm taking break until next month cause I'm away from my PC for Christmas). Shame that PS4/Xbox players got screwed by CDPR, really shame.

    About more customization, it makes no difference to me - cool if they introduce more, but don't give a shit. Overall from your list only AI issues are minus from me. But I never said game doesn't have flaws. My response was for dude that straight up said Cyberpunk is shitty game like he was speaking for everybody. Sometimes is good to break circlejerk.

  10. #3730
    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    I'm not shilling for shit and I haven't been hopping to their defense. I'm saying idiots trying to run __any__ new big bleeding edge game on one generation old console is an idiot.
    Then it should not have been released on those consoles.
    If a company releases a product and states it is compatible with your current hardware...it should be compatible.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Selastan View Post
    Actually, I argue that it is. Especially with the PS5 so hard to get. If Cyberpunk got the game to work on PS4 Pro, they were absolutely right in releasing it for PS4. That means base PS4 users like myself might end up with a broken game, but since there is no such thing as a PS4 Pro exclusive, there is no reason why Pro owners shouldn't get to play a game just because the base version can't cut it. If anyone is to blame it would be Sony and Microsoft for not allowing developers to create games exclusive to their upgraded consoles. The fact that people complain about base console Cyberpunk is no different than people complaining they can't play the game on an underpowered PC. It isn't CDProjekt's fault for creating it in the first place.
    No, its still not an excuse. And that's why CD Projekt Red is giving out refunds.

    It is their fault for releasing a version of the game that is nearly unplayable without giving any indication that was the case. They understand this...hence the refunds.

    Once again, Penny Arcade sums it up:

    https://www.penny-arcade.com/news/po...14/cyberpunk-2

    Something I have no use for is motherfuckers offering up their trenchant fucking takes on what's clearly not cooked all the way through, even on PC. You don't need to go on Reddit or some shit and try to run defense - you can listen to CD Projekt RED themselves, offering refunds directly. You look like a fucking tool. Just so we're clear: that's definitions 3a and 3b.

  11. #3731
    Quote Originally Posted by Saltysquidoon View Post
    I actually don't understand the motivation behind these glib posts (I'm not jumping on you specifically you see them like every 4 pages). Don't get me wrong I enjoyed the story and the gunplay and hacking were fine but are you honestly saying you can't see the obvious glaring flaws or do you just not care?

    Like:
    The driving AI, not being AI so any obstruction or deviation just stops the cars moving;
    The wanted AI just spawning police on top of you who give up if you move 300m up the road;
    The NPCs having one canned line and action even if it's inappropriate for the context (like the video of the guy who goes up to an npc comforting someone and she talks about the weather);
    The lack of a helmet toggle;
    The lack of a torch;
    No barbers; or
    No car customization (why can you buy every car in the game if you can't do anything with it).

    Like that's not even getting into the subjective stuff like cyberware and the 'rpg' mechanics being total nothing burgers.

    You are allowed to like something and accept it has flaws, you are allowed to admit you like flawed things.
    Of course it has flaws, and the point of the "glib" posts is the same as the numerous shitposts about how it's the worst game in history - to share opinion.

    The driving AI, not being AI so any obstruction or deviation just stops the cars moving;

    This makes zero difference to me. They decided to make the game so anything not nailed down reloads when you get far enough away, so it rarely ever comes up. That cars are stacked up behind my car is their problem, not mine. All traffic needs to do is feel more or less real when I'm driving through it and it does. Every game has elements of abstraction and developers pick different things to focus on. It's not a driving game, the amount of effort they put into that system seems very reasonable.

    The wanted AI just spawning police on top of you who give up if you move 300m up the road;

    It's almost like it's a game. Could a more fleshed out system be more fun? Sure, absolutely, but the game is on the rails in many ways and this is one. You're ostensibly a police contractor so they don't really let you meaningfully violate the law. If you expected to have to hire a good lawyer, show up in court, and serve a prison sentence for your infractions, I guess I can see why the game is disappointing...

    The NPCs having one canned line and action even if it's inappropriate for the context (like the video of the guy who goes up to an npc comforting someone and she talks about the weather);

    Sometimes this is buggy as hell and it sucks, it would be more fun if the dialogue system were more fleshed out and it sounds like they promised it would be and failed to deliver.

    The lack of a helmet toggle;

    If I want to wear a helmet irl I can't toggle it to be invisible, maybe this was an element where they decided against abstraction. It's just a choice and it's not that big of a deal. Personally I gear my character around looks balanced against utility, finding the sweet spot between the two means I have to make difficult choices sometimes, which I enjoy doing in games.

    The lack of a torch;
    No barbers; or


    Clearly choices they made but I agree, it feels like it's missing.

    No car customization (why can you buy every car in the game if you can't do anything with it).

    Car customization for me is: go get a different car. Why is this important? why would they allocate resources to a deep vehicle customization system when they were implementing so many other game systems, many of which people already feel weren't deep enough as it is. What should be taken out so car customization goes in?

    No game does everything that the detractors of this one want it to do. All games have to make tradeoffs between abstraction and realism, between what the designers are trying to accomplish and what "nice to haves" the players want. Here's one I have that you didn't mention - I hate that when you stealthily take someone down mid-conversation, their buddy doesn't notice. It's not a perfect game, if someone doesn't like it that's totally fair, it just seems like a lot of the complaints for this game are stupid nitpicky bullshit. Comes across as an entitlement issue, but I realize at least some of it is caused by the developers promising that the game would give you a puppy and a kiss on the forehead every night before bed.

  12. #3732
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Its when people just say "Objectively bad" which isn't the case. And in the case of car customization, they never really claimed it would be a thing. The AI doesn't really bother me outside of well kneeling down scared(If they ran it would be far better). Also people seem to love using absolute statements like "Its garbage" "Garbage game" etc etc.

    TLDR: We're taking the game as is not what it could of been.
    Whether it bothers you or not isn't the issue. The issue is that AI is dumb. That's an objective statement.

  13. #3733
    I am Murloc! Selastan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    Then it should not have been released on those consoles.
    If a company releases a product and states it is compatible with your current hardware...it should be compatible.

    No, its still not an excuse. And that's why CD Projekt Red is giving out refunds.

    It is their fault for releasing a version of the game that is nearly unplayable without giving any indication that was the case. They understand this...hence the refunds.

    Once again, Penny Arcade sums it up:

    https://www.penny-arcade.com/news/po...14/cyberpunk-2
    What would you have done in their place? How would you sell a game to the masses that runs well on upgraded consoles but not on the base versions? They had shown PS4 Pro and XBox One X footage, that wasn't false. But there is no way they could sell those versions without selling for the base PS4 and XBone. If I had a PS4 Pro, and I couldn't buy the game because the base PS4 couldn't run it well, despite the fact that my console could, I would be pretty pissed.

    - - - Updated - - -
    @Zaktar yeah, that pretty much sums it up. I'm surprised fans of Microsoft Flight Simulator aren't complaining they didn't let you fly around space as well. They could always add more to a game, at some point they have to call it 'done' or else it would never get released.

  14. #3734
    Quote Originally Posted by Selastan View Post
    What would you have done in their place? How would you sell a game to the masses that runs well on upgraded consoles but not on the base versions? They had shown PS4 Pro and XBox One X footage, that wasn't false. But there is no way they could sell those versions without selling for the base PS4 and XBone. If I had a PS4 Pro, and I couldn't buy the game because the base PS4 couldn't run it well, despite the fact that my console could, I would be pretty pissed.

    - - - Updated - - -
    @Zaktar yeah, that pretty much sums it up. I'm surprised fans of Microsoft Flight Simulator aren't complaining they didn't let you fly around space as well. They could always add more to a game, at some point they have to call it 'done' or else it would never get released.
    Are you trying to be sarcastic? Until now, CDProjekt was considered a serious enough company, able to release a quality product. They had a great subject with plenty of lore but enough artistic freedom to create an interesting aestethic environment. Nothing wrong in trusting them.

  15. #3735
    I am Murloc! Selastan's Avatar
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    As for the lack of customization it just doesn't make sense here. The game is set over a short period of time. V is on a mission. Sure, you can fuck around all you want and wait day after day, but that's not really 'canon'. In reality, the game's story takes place over a couple weeks at most. V might do some side missions for cash or rep to help him on his main quest, but that's it. He's not gonna be strolling to the barber or modifying his car to look cool when he's fighting for his life.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Cringefest View Post
    Are you trying to be sarcastic? Until now, CDProjekt was considered a serious enough company, able to release a quality product. They had a great subject with plenty of lore but enough artistic freedom to create an interesting aestethic environment. Nothing wrong in trusting them.
    At what point did I imply that I didn't trust them? I STILL trust them. That first patch actually improved PS4 stability quite a bit. I wouldn't be surprised if the game actually became half-decent over the next couple of patches.

  16. #3736
    Quote Originally Posted by Selastan View Post
    As for the lack of customization it just doesn't make sense here. The game is set over a short period of time. V is on a mission. Sure, you can fuck around all you want and wait day after day, but that's not really 'canon'. In reality, the game's story takes place over a couple weeks at most. V might do some side missions for cash or rep to help him on his main quest, but that's it. He's not gonna be strolling to the barber or modifying his car to look cool when he's fighting for his life.
    What if V's trip to the barber ain't canon, either? What if V wants to change how they look for a specific job/mission? I mean, if we're gonna gloss over players wasting 5 hours clothes shopping because "it's not canon", then that opens the door huge numbers of other non-canon activities. To boot, it sure is odd that a game where character customization is a big factor, especially where it's set in a future where recustomizing yourself is apparently pretty commonplace.

    I'm really hoping they eventually add it in, because I'm gonna be pretty bummed if I can't give my V a new trim or change out some robo-parts/add dicks because I'm playing "non-canon" stuff and wanna have more dicks.

  17. #3737
    Quote Originally Posted by Selastan View Post
    As for the lack of customization it just doesn't make sense here. The game is set over a short period of time.
    The bulk of the main story is sure, but last I checked you customize your character and play part of the story that takes place months before the main story line starts rolling in so... This is a really lame excuse for lack of customization. Maybe you find an outfit you like and watch to change character look to go with it, not being able to customize your character past the creation point is stupid and wouldn't take any effort to add either. Just add the option at any mirror like Animal Crossing does and its the same menu from start of game how hard is that?

  18. #3738
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    The story isn't a home run by any means, but it's good enough to keep me interested in what comes next.
    Haven't finished it yet, but I skip the vast majority of story in other games because by-in-large, video games have some of the worst storytelling I experience in any medium. Though I do think this is high-quality writing and would go so far as to say if the context of being a video game were not present the 'main story' of the game could be a dramatic series plot and narrative.

    Not sure about the "cliche" thing either. Firstly, this is the cliche. The aesthetic and attitude of material here is affected by other media as a cliche. But this is the standard-bearer and creative originator of a lot of this style. Second, this is a satire. I would very much like to see alternate styling of this material because it is rather difficult to not write something similar to what is delivered without a lot of deviation from the original material's intentions.

    How else would one write this in setting? The majority of games cannot even write consistently in tone for their own setting and fewer still have any account of modern naturalism- it is more common for video games to be written archly.

    I'll have more to say when/if I finish this game.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    I'm really hoping they eventually add it in, because I'm gonna be pretty bummed if I can't give my V a new trim or change out some robo-parts/add dicks because I'm playing "non-canon" stuff and wanna have more dicks.
    Well, I made myself beautiful. So I don't really need a faceplate adjustment.

    But for the life me, why did they implement a clothes system where you have so little control over what are you wearing? For about 20 hours of this game, I was dressed like a fucking psycho. A trilby hat, kimono-looking jacket, a tank top, lime green reeboks, and gold hot pants. Who the fuck even?
    "It's a big club. And you ain't in it. It is also the club they use to beat you with." - George Carlin

  19. #3739
    I am Murloc! Selastan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    What if V's trip to the barber ain't canon, either? What if V wants to change how they look for a specific job/mission? I mean, if we're gonna gloss over players wasting 5 hours clothes shopping because "it's not canon", then that opens the door huge numbers of other non-canon activities. To boot, it sure is odd that a game where character customization is a big factor, especially where it's set in a future where recustomizing yourself is apparently pretty commonplace.

    I'm really hoping they eventually add it in, because I'm gonna be pretty bummed if I can't give my V a new trim or change out some robo-parts/add dicks because I'm playing "non-canon" stuff and wanna have more dicks.
    This might be me being too trusting an optimistic again, but I think they are certainly gonna add that as DLC. I think that after all the delays they had, they didn't want to throw in stuff like that and have it be half-assed. The trouble is thinking about how they would add it in with the story. Like I said before, the game isn't and open-ended sandbox to play sci-fi Sims in. I'm reminded of Fallout: New Vegas, in a way, and I think they will handle it like that. Player customization and visible cyberwear mods coming in a 'Gunrunner's Arsenal' type DLC. Again, I don't think that it shouldn't be included. I just think that with the story set up the way it is, if anything HAD to be cut, it makes sense it was the things that didn't contribute to the main story and core gameplay loop.

  20. #3740
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Well, I made myself beautiful. So I don't really need a faceplate adjustment.

    But for the life me, why did they implement a clothes system where you have so little control over what are you wearing? For about 20 hours of this game, I was dressed like a fucking psycho. A trilby hat, kimono-looking jacket, a tank top, lime green reeboks, and gold hot pants. Who the fuck even?
    This is one of the reasons I'm glad the game is first person. As hilarious as being a murder-hobo is, I hate it when my character ends up waring a gross-ass mishmash of gear (especially if it approximates IRL clothing and not fantasy armor) that makes me look like my character has even less style sense than I do.

    I just wanna look fuckin fab, man.

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