Cyberpunk 2077

[Gorsameth]

The story in the game proper also has shades of this. The first part of the plot, its characters and themes are pretty much completely ditched by the second part beginning after the Heist, and I don't think that is entirely deliberate. I wouldn't be surprised if at first the game was mostly about cyberpsychosis and/or a rags to riches affair before they settled on the final direction but they didn't wish to ditch all the previous work.

The game being changed at some point during development to revolve around Silverhand when Keanu came on board is a pretty common idea I believe.

[Jastall]

The game being changed at some point during development to revolve around Silverhand when Keanu came on board is a pretty common idea I believe.

That would make some sense. Maybe at first the whole chip idea was one side of the plot, and as Keanu's role grew they accommodated the story. I don't mind it, V's relationship with Johnny and really the main plot in general are one of the game's strongest points. I just wish it tied better into the side activities which made close to 0 sense at all to do as a V who has mere weeks to live and is puking blood and passing out every other main mission, but still happily finds the time to do sundry odd jobs for a thousand eddies. Yes, it's a common video game trope, but the precise timeframe given before V bites it makes the dissonance worse than in most examples I find.

@rhorle It's not just cyperpsychosis as a topic that I mean. Of all the characters the game introduces in Act 1, only one survives the proceedings and she's only tangentially related to the main plot, it's all ditched for a new cast of characters and most of all Johnny himself, all of which signals a radical shift in the story's tone and a massive change in V's priorities, motivations and such. It all comes together nicely in the end, but still feels like the first few plotlines and characters are just warming the crowd before Johnny takes center stage. The Lifepaths are even worse about this of course given how irrelevant they are, which I'm certain wasn't part of the initial plan.

[rhorle]

It's not just cyperpsychosis as a topic that I mean. Of all the characters the game introduces in Act 1, only one survives the proceedings and she's only tangentially related to the main plot, it's all ditched for a new cast of characters and most of all Johnny himself, all of which signals a radical shift in the story's tone and a massive change in V's priorities, motivations and such. It all comes together nicely in the end, but still feels like the first few plotlines and characters are just warming the crowd before Johnny takes center stage. The Lifepaths are even worse about this of course given how irrelevant they are, which I'm certain wasn't part of the initial plan.

That doesn't speak of cut content or a change in plans though. It sets up the first heist and the consequences of it. It would be a bit silly for the narrative to say this is super deadly and all that but the entire crew escapes unharmed. Could they have had that game defining heist be longer into the game? Sure but that would change a lot of the focus of the game and make that entire job feel more like an ending rather then the start of the real story.

It also highlights one of the themes they reinforce over and over with the side quests, shards, and other world building. That the fixers and crews are a just a burning candle waiting to be snuffed out in some fashion. Could it have all been changed when they decided to have Johnny be the central story? Sure. But I doubt it. The life paths are not that irrelevant. They still offer dialogue choices that otherwise wouldn't be there. People praised Dragon Age: Origins when the origin stories were essentially treated the same. It changes the start but everything else is pretty much irrelevant.

[Selastan]

That doesn't speak of cut content or a change in plans though. It sets up the first heist and the consequences of it. It would be a bit silly for the narrative to say this is super deadly and all that but the entire crew escapes unharmed. Could they have had that game defining heist be longer into the game? Sure but that would change a lot of the focus of the game and make that entire job feel more like an ending rather then the start of the real story.

It also highlights one of the themes they reinforce over and over with the side quests, shards, and other world building. That the fixers and crews are a just a burning candle waiting to be snuffed out in some fashion. Could it have all been changed when they decided to have Johnny be the central story? Sure. But I doubt it. The life paths are not that irrelevant. They still offer dialogue choices that otherwise wouldn't be there. People praised Dragon Age: Origins when the origin stories were essentially treated the same. It changes the start but everything else is pretty much irrelevant.

While I agree with you for the most part, some things still feel off. Like how V goes from fighting street punks to elite Arasaka guards then back to street punks again. I think that the heist was supposed to be a bit later in the original draft. Johnny was the mid-point that sets up the end game. I don't think that the time skip was originally there, and that was the real first act of the game, the biochip heist not their introduction to the big game but their big retirement plan.

Could be wrong, of course. It does make sense and fits with the theme as is, just...not perfectly.

[rhorle]

Could be wrong, of course. It does make sense and fits with the theme as is, just...not perfectly.

It is entirely possible. The time skip might have been added in or "left over" but I think they also needed a way to set up V as a "rising star" on the merc scene so all of the origin stories make sense. Because going from Nomad, Street, or Corpo right into stealing from the most powerful man/people in the world is a little silly. This way they had it set up where no matter what you were making a name for yourself and that is how/why your crew was picked for the mission even if they might not have been the best in Night City.

It was both the introduction and the retirement. Jackie was obviously in the game for a while but V was still a newcomer despite the time skip and if you read enough of the story stuff you can loot it looks like they were nothing special prior to the relic heist. They were just another crew that did jobs in Night City until they pulled off a legendary heist that would both make them a ton of money and a ton of reputation.

[Polyxo]

It is entirely possible. The time skip might have been added in or "left over" but I think they also needed a way to set up V as a "rising star" on the merc scene so all of the origin stories make sense. Because going from Nomad, Street, or Corpo right into stealing from the most powerful man/people in the world is a little silly. This way they had it set up where no matter what you were making a name for yourself and that is how/why your crew was picked for the mission even if they might not have been the best in Night City.

It was both the introduction and the retirement. Jackie was obviously in the game for a while but V was still a newcomer despite the time skip and if you read enough of the story stuff you can loot it looks like they were nothing special prior to the relic heist. They were just another crew that did jobs in Night City until they pulled off a legendary heist that would both make them a ton of money and a ton of reputation.

Just an aside related to that: I really thought it was great how V and Jackie get a little bit snippy with each other in the car, due to being nervous about the job, without saying that. It's one of those things in storytelling that I think CDPR does better than anybody in the business, and it still shows.

[Proskill]

Refund from where?

If it was GOG ya it took fucken forever for me to get a reply, Also took 3 tickets.

If it was Sony (I got a digital PS4 copy) its best to just talk to their support chat. I waited weeks and just 10min's with support got it done.

yeah i meant GOG

[SirCowdog]

Just an aside related to that: I really thought it was great how V and Jackie get a little bit snippy with each other in the car, due to being nervous about the job, without saying that. It's one of those things in storytelling that I think CDPR does better than anybody in the business, and it still shows.

Am I the only one that found Jackie to be kind of irritating? I started as Nomad, and the entire time since you first meet him, and most dialogue seems like you're just tolerating him rather than being best buds. I know CDPR wanted him to be this emotional investment for the player, but it all seemed forced to me. I don't want to say I was happy when he died, because I'm not an insensitive monster, but I did feel relief at not having to be interrupted by his nonsense constantly.

[Kotuthan]

Am I the only one that found Jackie to be kind of irritating? I started as Nomad, and the entire time since you first meet him, and most dialogue seems like you're just tolerating him rather than being best buds. I know CDPR wanted him to be this emotional investment for the player, but it all seemed forced to me. I don't want to say I was happy when he died, because I'm not an insensitive monster, but I did feel relief at not having to be interrupted by his nonsense constantly.

I think if we had more missions, dialogue, and just goofing off with him before he died we would have had a better connection to the character and would be more rattled by his death. A scene were Mother Welles he and you are eating dinner together, more Scenes with him and Misty etc would have made him seem more alive, or even letting us play during the Club fight scene in the starting video would have made him seem more real. Right now its like you see him a few times, then he is gone, we could not build a connection to him.
Same goes for T-Bug. Oh look she died, who was she again? oh yeah the person who gave me some dialogue and then a Ping Quickhack for free.

[Fencers]

Am I the only one that found Jackie to be kind of irritating?

WHHAA? Shut your mouth. Not Jackie. The man was a treasure.

[RobertoCarlos]

"Hard man" Jackie takes like 2 seconds before hes talking about his dear old mother worrying for him.

The writing was way to obvious for me to grow any attachment.

[Zaktar]

Am I the only one that found Jackie to be kind of irritating? I started as Nomad, and the entire time since you first meet him, and most dialogue seems like you're just tolerating him rather than being best buds. I know CDPR wanted him to be this emotional investment for the player, but it all seemed forced to me. I don't want to say I was happy when he died, because I'm not an insensitive monster, but I did feel relief at not having to be interrupted by his nonsense constantly.

I think your lifepath kind of sets the stage for that relationship. I started as a Corpo and Jackie was my guy - in a nomad runthrough I'm more noticing his flaws. I think it's at least partly how he gets introduced to you.

[Koriani]

That's what I mean, everyone says you need body and voice. What if you have a mismatch here, can you romance anyone?

Yes.

Everything I've read - its ONE character for each combo option. But each character can only be romanced by ONE combination of the variable. Sorry, I don't know which one matches to which type - haven't played yet so can't even remember the names of the 4 "Romance-ables."

But basically:

Male body, male Voice - You are straight. Romance option Character 1 (straight female)
Male body, female Voice - You are Gay. Romance option Character 2 (gay male)
Female body, female voice - You are straight. Romance Option Character 3 (straight male)
Female body, male voice - You are Gay. Romance Option Character 4 - (lesbian female)

That's it. There is no one character for multiple-combinations. Each play through with V you get ONE Romance Option. Take it or leave it. None of the Character Options play as Bi/Trans/otherwise - because none of them are available to both male/female (regardless of voice).

/rant on
Honestly, this ticks me off more than some of the bugginess and /other/ lies about this game. Because CDPR made such a big deal over being LGBTQ open and friendly and how you can 'do what you want' and put male and female parts on the same body, having LGBTQ relationship romance options etc. How this was so 'representative" etc. etc. But then to bait/switch it all and instead of everyone (no matter what body/voice combo) being able to romance 'any' of the options - you only get one character based on the *voice* combination with your sex(?). Its like they really don't get "awareness/inclusiveness" at all - and instead of your vagina or penis determining your sexuality - its your voice? That's not better. That's the same thing.

On top of the choice at character creation having such a major effect on story/endings LONG before you would expect someone to know that in a game (before they even start). WTH? And since each romance option has a different story - and at least one of those (2? not sure) changes the endings (so I've read/watched from other players). All of that because of body+ voice choice?

I also read that really only one of the romance interests has any 'real fleshed out story'. That may be more subjective - perhaps there are 2? But I'm given to understand at least 2 of the characters have much less flushed out story/dialogue/interactions? Or the one or two of the characters are just better written and have better endings than the other half. Just sucks - that every player has to play more than once to see those storylines. Instead of just having all 4 options available for everyone - no matter HOW they chose to represent themselves - what actual "inclusivity" would mean.

I don't even care about romance options in games; honestly. Its some nice side-fun *if I like the character interest* and the option in the game exist, but that's it. Except when I'm shoehorned down a path in order to experience a storyline or a certain ending. And I'd care far less if CDPR had kept their mouths shut and didn't claim any of the above 'we get you - we're modern - we're inclusive' and/or didn't claim that character creation 'looks' (which is all body/voice is_) would have any affect on your gameplay story experience. HA it does.

/rant over

[Cosmic Janitor]

Wait, what? You become "gay" by having a female voice as a guy? Surely that can't be right.

[XDurionX]

Wait, what? You become "gay" by having a female voice as a guy? Surely that can't be right.

It isn't. I could romance River as a male v with a male voice. None of that is true whatsoever.

[Cosmic Janitor]

It isn't. I could romance River as a male v with a male voice. None of that is true whatsoever.

Isn't river the straight female option? I thought Kerry was the gay male one.

[SirCowdog]

Same goes for T-Bug. Oh look she died, who was she again? oh yeah the person who gave me some dialogue and then a Ping Quickhack for free.

I actually half-expected her death to have been faked as part of a side-plot. But no. They just up and threw away what I thought was a good beginning to developing her character.

I know CDPR spent a long time developing this game, but parts of it still REALLY felt rushed or cut to save time.

[Gorsameth]

Wait, what? You become "gay" by having a female voice as a guy? Surely that can't be right.

My female V (voice and body) shot down the detective guy strait choice and hooked up with Judy (lesbian).

So he is just strait up wrong.

Presumably the requirements are female body / female voice for Judy
Female body for River
Male body for Panam
Male body / Male voice for Kenny

So if you mix male/female body/voice you have 1 option, else you have 2.

[SirCowdog]

I think your lifepath kind of sets the stage for that relationship. I started as a Corpo and Jackie was my guy - in a nomad runthrough I'm more noticing his flaws. I think it's at least partly how he gets introduced to you.

After the initial lifepath quest, the dialogue is the same, though. I don't know. It felt like the devs were trying way too hard to make him your buddy, and it didn't come across right.

[Zaktar]

After the initial lifepath quest, the dialogue is the same, though. I don't know. It felt like the devs were trying way too hard to make him your buddy, and it didn't come across right.

Yeah I'm fully aware but in one scenario you get backstory that sets him up as your longtime buddy - everything after that feels natural. In the other, he's set up as this double-crossing liar who acts like he's your best friend. It has an impact.