[5.4] Demonology Warlock Guide

[Hellfury]

Kind of painful, but at the same time fights where IA / MF where good we were so far ahead of the next dps it wasn't even funny.

What fights? The fights with Heavy AOE all I saw was Bladestorm warriors beating the shit out of everyone, granted Demos were OK but I think you were exagerating the 50%. Besides SOC with MF is as good if not better.

[Zinnin]

What fights? The fights with Heavy AOE all I saw was Bladestorm warriors beating the shit out of everyone, granted Demos were OK but I think you were exagerating the 50%. Besides SOC with MF is as good if not better.

SoC and IA were nearly identical before the 20% nerf, however IA is an aura which allows you to still cast other abilities which makes it stronger.

Bladestorm warriors had (have?) exceptionally good cleave if the mobs are positioned well for them, if not our range still wins.

Trinket list is updated.

[Deleted]

So UVLS will be BiS throughout this tier too meaning we will keep on with haste/mastery gear?
Or T16 BiS won't include it?

[Zinnin]

If you have Heroic Black Blood and Heroic Bindings it might be replaced, but it would be close, and that requires you to be done with progression. For the purposes of discussion its BiS for the tier.

[Xaav]

First of all i want to say thanks to Zinnin for the greath guide, second i have 2 questions: With UVLS not geting any benefit from haste anymore what do you think will be the best way to go regarding haste/mastery raitings for this first week in SoO? I was thinking 9k haste to get the shadowflame dot tick and then full mastery but i am not 100% sure. And my other question is since Zinnin says in the updated part of the guide that Fel Flame is exacly the same DMG should we use it over shadowbolt till we get T16x4 and has anyone done any testing in that mater to see how it is mana wise vs fury generation wise not just damage?

[Zinnin]

First of all i want to say thanks to Zinnin for the greath guide, second i have 2 questions: With UVLS not geting any benefit from haste anymore what do you think will be the best way to go regarding haste/mastery raitings for this first week in SoO? I was thinking 9k haste to get the shadowflame dot tick and then full mastery but i am not 100% sure. And my other question is since Zinnin says in the updated part of the guide that Fel Flame is exacly the same DMG should we use it over shadowbolt till we get T16x4 and has anyone done any testing in that mater to see how it is mana wise vs fury generation wise not just damage?

Fel flame does more damage, costs less mana, and gives the same fury until 50% haste. If you have 50% haste or more then shadow bolt is better.

[Xaav]

So then if we wana min max, Shadowbolt during BL/meta gem procs and the rest of the time Fel Flame more or less? And what do you think is hight haste build going to be any good at the start or even later on? Thanks for the really fast reply btw.

[Thragtusk]

Quick question, I got some early sexy warforged pants off ordos early on in the tier but they potentially break my 2p t15 bonus to use. At this point I have two options, I can just drop the 2p bonus. Or I can use normal mode gloves and drop heroic thunderforged mastery hit gloves and keep 2p. I'd normally simcraft this but with simcraft being a little weird at the beginning of a new patch I wanted to ask for advice since I'm relatively new to demo and not sure how much our 2p helps.

[Hellfury]

SoC and IA were nearly identical before the 20% nerf, however IA is an aura which allows you to still cast other abilities which makes it stronger.

Bladestorm warriors had (have?) exceptionally good cleave if the mobs are positioned well for them, if not our range still wins.

Trinket list is updated.

Bladestorm have almost the same range as IA/HF without MF, and granted we have to be almost at melee range to cast IA/HF I dont understand how our range is a factor.

I did all tested bosses normal and HCs besides some that were at 0100 CET EU time, and I didnt saw Demo winning by 50% on AOE alone but I could had missed some

[Deleted]

Trinket list is updated.

Question, what other gear did you use for bindings numbers?

And another, more who cares question: on the race dps I assume you didn't reforge differently for the races being able to get 1% more hit from racials or?

Thanks for all the work you've done, really helps.

[Zinnin]

Question, what other gear did you use for bindings numbers?

And another, more who cares question: on the race dps I assume you didn't reforge differently for the races being able to get 1% more hit from racials or?

Thanks for all the work you've done, really helps.

The trinket list used the t15H demo profile.

I didn't count the 1% hit bonuses because they aren't something you always have, since it depends on what weapon you have.

[Deleted]

If you have Heroic Black Blood and Heroic Bindings it might be replaced, but it would be close, and that requires you to be done with progression. For the purposes of discussion its BiS for the tier.

So haste/mastery gear all the way up until we get those 2 items?

[Werst]

For progression UVLS + amp....especially since amp comes from the first boss and trinket drop rates seem to be higher. That 2 minute monster playstyle.... After running 2x 25m groups up through juggernaut it feels like aff isn't as strong as we thought and you can basically run demo on everything thus far. That said I feel like the aoe nerf was overkill. Especially when I see what bladestorm, DK's, and chain lightning do still.

Zinn was right to not use any racial hit....most everyone will be using their garrosh staff 2/2 well into heroics. A warforged heroic MH/OH combo might beat the normal staff but it isn't going to be by that much (less so than what the gap was in ToT is what I mean).

[Zinnin]

most everyone will be using their garrosh staff 2/2 well into heroics.

The BoA items don't have the 'Upgrade Level 0/2' in their tooltips anymore. Their 561 ilvl is to make up for the fact you can't upgrade them.

[Werst]

Bah....*anymore* bites...was still thinking of PTR. So the haste/mastery OH with any of the MH's really. Probably one without hit since we seem to be drowning in it.

[weakdots]

got through nazgrim tonight, we hadnt done any ptr testing but basically blew everything up, i was using afflic up until around norushen, wasnt really liking my numbers( it was very nice protectors) and went to demo, and it was just so strong for the rest of those fights. im finding it pretty hard to believe we will drop uvls at all this tier.

- - - Updated - - -

was noticing some pet problems that started around galekras (or however you spell it) felguard was constantly getting 'stuck' just out in the open in between the 2 towers, would have to resummon him or spam follow/attack. he died multiple times on juggernaut and also was dying so often on dark shamans and on the trash leading up to nazgrim. threatening presence was off. Our hunters pet was dying a ton as well.

[Deleted]

got through nazgrim tonight, we hadnt done any ptr testing but basically blew everything up, i was using afflic up until around norushen, wasnt really liking my numbers( it was very nice protectors) and went to demo, and it was just so strong for the rest of those fights. im finding it pretty hard to believe we will drop uvls at all this tier..

Perhaps afflic needs to scale a bit with a few items (ie: BBoY + KTT) to become predominant? i cant imagine it being not as good/better than demo? dont get me wrong, i hope that demo does well still - my favorite spec after all.

[Gorthan]

Fel flame does more damage, costs less mana, and gives the same fury until 50% haste. If you have 50% haste or more then shadow bolt is better.

Can you confirm that is better to use fel flame over sb in any situation with haste < 50%? I was thinking about wich spec to play for immerseus and in this scenario demo win over affliction thanks to the full mobility.

[Werst]

Next week in heroics I'm sure having SB:Coex (glyph'd) will be awesome for immerseus adds but they die so fast aff is wasted on them in normal. I could see a UVLS + heroic amp holding demo through progression and will be available as of next week. I'm sure aff will get some nuts as ilvl goes up or on some of the later bosses but I think the subtle changes to aff actually tone it down more than we realized. Namely no more shards from MG ticks or multidotting.

I did well on nourshen as aff but really could have played demo with similar results with the possible exception of the "downstairs" room. Pretty much everything else demo actually felt stronger. Granted we only got through juggernaut but we were doing 2x groups of 25m so we had far less time.

Actually what I'm curious about is should demo ever really go above the 9778 aff "offspec" haste point in 5.4? Its already not possible to get my haste down to 8100 and I'm only 552 as of last night. IE should we start feeding crit in after hitting our 8100 to 9778 haste point? IE an itemization strat of 8100 or 9778 haste > mastery > crit > haste?

[Drobo]

So we've overshot our expectations for affliction and on live UVLS demo is still supreme? Also, I was lucky enough to coin a normal KTT last night. Is it better to use than my my 543 wush, 543 breath, or 543 cha when matched with uvls (also 543)?