1. #2781
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taninsam View Post
    Most of us are capping haste at 8097 then going Mastery >= Crit, meaning you should still have a healthy amount of crit instead of going all out Mastery.
    You're dropping mastery for crit? How's that working out for you? Wasn't aware people were trying that.

    Edit: Personally I saw good results with higher haste, but only really had to drop like 1k mastery to hit 14880 which I've had decent results with
    Last edited by mmoc112615a1c9; 2014-02-01 at 08:32 PM.

  2. #2782
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liquidsteel View Post
    You're dropping mastery for crit? How's that working out for you? Wasn't aware people were trying that.

    Edit: Personally I saw good results with higher haste, but only really had to drop like 1k mastery to hit 14880 which I've had decent results with
    whats the 14880 cap do? an extra doom tick?

  3. #2783
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    Quote Originally Posted by nsgid View Post
    whats the 14880 cap do? an extra doom tick?
    14873 (non goblin) Extra shadowflame tick.

  4. #2784
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    Quote Originally Posted by nsgid View Post
    whats the 14880 cap do? an extra doom tick?
    An extra doom tick with Troll Racial+BL+Metagem, eg. an extra doom tick in the opener.

  5. #2785
    Quote Originally Posted by Zalival View Post
    An extra doom tick with Troll Racial+BL+Metagem, eg. an extra doom tick in the opener.
    True but misleading. It's mainly taken for the extra Shadowflame tick at 14873.

  6. #2786
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonkura View Post
    True but misleading. It's mainly taken for the extra Shadowflame tick at 14873.
    Yeah 14873 is the extra shadowflame tick which I like for the extra fury gen and also an extra shot at a molten core proc.

    14880 (only for trolls) works nicely for an extra tick of Doom on the pull. The fights where Demo shines (like IJ and Malkorok) are generally quite short, so the extra 7 haste is worth its weight in gold.

    (I'm not directing this at you bonkura, just speaking in general)

  7. #2787
    Quote Originally Posted by Liquidsteel View Post
    You're dropping mastery for crit? How's that working out for you? Wasn't aware people were trying that.

    Edit: Personally I saw good results with higher haste, but only really had to drop like 1k mastery to hit 14880 which I've had decent results with
    With my current gear ilvl (565) I'm now reforging for haste>mastery>crit, but with my current gear I have so much mastery it's telling me to drop it for crit.

  8. #2788
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taninsam View Post
    With my current gear ilvl (565) I'm now reforging for haste>mastery>crit, but with my current gear I have so much mastery it's telling me to drop it for crit.
    I'm of the opinion that there's no such thing as too much mastery, but unfortunately I can't really go test a haste/crit build in a proper raid due to current work schedule.

    My gut instinct tells me that you should either go for haste or crit as you fury generating stat, and keep mastery as high as possible. Simcraft also doesn't really use meta/soulfire/trinkets to their full potential, which I believe makes mastery even better than it appears in sims, though I can't actually back that up with data.

  9. #2789
    Quote Originally Posted by Liquidsteel View Post
    I'm of the opinion that there's no such thing as too much mastery, but unfortunately I can't really go test a haste/crit build in a proper raid due to current work schedule.

    My gut instinct tells me that you should either go for haste or crit as you fury generating stat, and keep mastery as high as possible. Simcraft also doesn't really use meta/soulfire/trinkets to their full potential, which I believe makes mastery even better than it appears in sims, though I can't actually back that up with data.
    I agree - with the massive amount of little things you can do to optimize output during meta, having more Mastery always seems right. Regardless, as horrible as Crit seems, it does boost our SF damage and ups the chances of getting wild imps from Doom (even post-nerfs, those little fellas are doing around 10% of my total dmg in my logs), so I'm not too sure of it being a stat to ignore.

    Currently I'm standing at 13k haste (the most I can gem/reforge with my gear), 11.6k mastery and 7.2k crit. Whenever I drop below ~6.5k crit my weights reverse (haste>crit~=mastery, slightly favoring crit), so I'm trying to keep the build balanced until I get better gear.

  10. #2790
    Quote Originally Posted by Taninsam View Post
    Regardless, as horrible as Crit seems, it does boost our SF damage and ups the chances of getting wild imps from Doom (even post-nerfs, those little fellas are doing around 10% of my total dmg in my logs), so I'm not too sure of it being a stat to ignore.
    I switch it up depending on the fight, but my line of thought is mostly that haste is reliable fury income (via hardcast sbolts, and guarenteed imps via the passive) whilst crit is rng fury income, potentially higher, but you can't rely on it for a burst point. If I need burn-at-specific-moment, and it isn't on an exact timer, I will tend to shift more towards haste, because I need less time available to prep a full fury bar. If there is no need, I tend to go more balanced, with ~8100 haste.

    Either way, maxed mastery though
    Last edited by rijn dael; 2014-02-03 at 06:07 AM.

  11. #2791
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liquidsteel View Post
    You're dropping mastery for crit? How's that working out for you? Wasn't aware people were trying that.

    Edit: Personally I saw good results with higher haste, but only really had to drop like 1k mastery to hit 14880 which I've had decent results with
    I've been thinking about this (crit) for Paragons, think the extra Fury from the extra Imps might prove useful. Playing it Destruction for now though. Don't like how high Haste plays, and prevents off-speccing.

  12. #2792
    If you are 3x+ doom'ing then I could see crit being strong for paragons (but still RNG). Destro is going to be the most reliable choice and certainly has the perk of ember taps for panic heals when the random dmg mechanics just rub one out on you. Though the leap mobility is really nice too...sadly I don't believe the armor is *that* much help during the fight. Though on a fight where you will get 3x dooms that is theoretically a lot of cleave/shadowflame ticks which translates to higher meta uptime thereby increasing mastery. You could probably do a 3x target sim and fiddle with the parameters a bit to try to replicate it.

  13. #2793
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Obviously 3x Doom'ing, I played Destro a bit to get used to mechanics but it just emphasised how horrible I am at maximising damage from that spec and went back to Demo. As the fight went on, it just felt like endless Fury and MC procs so damage seems fine with stats as they are. Any addons I can use to better follow my DoTs on the active bosses?

  14. #2794
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    ShadowUnitFrames' boss bars are nice, you can just purge all the buffs/debuffs you dont want so you can see at a glance how your Doom is doing.

  15. #2795
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Any addons I can use to better follow my DoTs on the active bosses?
    Tidy Plates are great for that. The only drawback is that dots disappear when the unitframe goes off screen, but that's a system limitation.

  16. #2796
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    Quote Originally Posted by kardacz View Post
    Tidy Plates are great for that. The only drawback is that dots disappear when the unitframe goes off screen, but that's a system limitation.
    I use this which is awesome under most circumstances, but position on screen, adds getting in the way and range are the shortfalls it has that I want to overcome.

    Quote Originally Posted by hypofyse View Post
    ShadowUnitFrames' boss bars are nice, you can just purge all the buffs/debuffs you dont want so you can see at a glance how your Doom is doing.
    I will try this.

  17. #2797
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    I use this which is awesome under most circumstances, but position on screen, adds getting in the way and range are the shortfalls it has that I want to overcome.


    I will try this.
    +1 for ShadowUnitFrames, the whitelist/blacklist stuff is awesome.

    Raven isn't bad either, but I use it combined with SuF, because it adds a tracker like dotimer did, non-clickable list of timers by unit name - good for estimates of your #hogs ticking, etc.
    Last edited by rijn dael; 2014-02-04 at 09:35 PM.

  18. #2798
    I have gearing / stats questions. I'm currently raiding 10-man normal primarily as Demo and am at 560 ilvl. Hello fellow locks. I'm looking for some help increasing my dps, but I've already gotten some tips reading through the thread that I should try out before asking for specific help from my logs. However, I have a gearing conundrum. I'm currently raiding 10-man normal primarily as Demo and am at 560 ilvl. You can see my current gear and stats on the Armory:

    Faction: Alliance
    Server: Lothar (US)
    Character: Kaoskat

    I do have a full 4-piece set, but my helm is flex and my shoulders are LFR, but I do also have a normal mode tier chest. I've been running Ordos weekly and picked up the war forged helm and chest you can see in my profile . I haven't found any great information about how important the 4-piece set is for demo. It seems to me that an extra HoG proccing periodically wouldn't outweigh the better gear overall. But I'm probably wrong. So my main question is: Am I better off reverting to my flex helm and normal chest piece with the LFR shoulders and tossing the Ordos gear?

    Second question, if you'll indulge me. Am I doing my stats wrong? What I'm going for is the 13153 haste breakpoint for the extra doom tick, then mastery with crit as the lowest priority. I've read some sites that say it should be mastery > haste (to a breakpoint) > crit for demo in 5.4 and some go the other way around (notably Ask Mr Robot which says crit > haste AND mastery). So I'm a bit confused. When I tried to reforge / gem / enchant as suggested by Ask Mr Robot's default, I ended up with a ton of crit, but my dps seemed to drop precipitously. Although, to be fair, I didn't give it much of a chance. It just "felt" wrong (like slow casting, etc).

    Any help / insight would be greatly appreciated.

  19. #2799
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    I don't recommend going for a doom point unless it is fairly close to a shadowflame breakpoint, 13153 isn't a good haste point to pick. If you aren't going up to 14.8k I would recommend going down to 8.1k

  20. #2800
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rijn dael View Post
    +1 for ShadowUnitFrames, the whitelist/blacklist stuff is awesome.

    Raven isn't bad either, but I use it combined with SuF, because it adds a tracker like dotimer did, non-clickable list of timers by unit name - good for estimates of your #hogs ticking, etc.
    Already use Raven for DoTs and minor cooldowns. Really liking SUFs functionality though, didn't take long to decide to completely replace X-Perl with it.

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