[5.4] Demonology Warlock Guide

[Akakishin]

I just ran a scale factor check for your gear (best way to determine it imo) to see what are the results.its patchwerk btw
haste: 2.85
mastery: 2.08
crit: 1.73
still more value on haste but for multi target fights? im not sure how much (mastery) takes more value with number of targets rising up, but it gives you a little idea about the current power of stats on your char. dont forget that im not an expert in TOT fights due to not clearing HM, but I think for TOT fights 8k haste and else to mastery is a better way to shine in AOEs and multitargets.

[Last Starfighter]

8k haste for extra tick of doom and the rest into mastery.

[Teye]

8k haste for extra tick of doom and the rest into mastery.

This belongs in the Demonology thread. That's how you avoid getting answers like ^ that...


Edit: Ah, good, it was moved.

[Livendula]

This is what I do too. Mouseover doom macro on scroll wheel up.

Literally exactly what I do...

[Skayth]

Now, at what ilvl do i want to go straight haste? I have uvls (just got after weeks of farming since week 2 of 5.1) and Im at 530 ilvl. Or do I want to go straight haste? I heard counter arguments, and its quite confusing to the point I dont even know. Note, Ima "casual" heroic raider.

So... what are your suggestions? straight haste? or 8.1k then mastery?

[Biomega]

Haste breakpoints (like 8097) -> Mastery is a safe bet. There is some discussion about a "full haste" build, but so far it hasn't exactly produced much evidence towards its actual benefits in real-world raiding (and not just statistical ones in Simcraft). Most high-level players advocate Mastery post haste-BPs. The easiest one to reach is the aforementioned 8097, but there's another you can reach once you reach VERY high gear levels (something around 14k iirc). I think there's some minor BPs in between, too, but those two seem to be the most important ones.

Besides, going for 8.1k->Mastery has the added benefit of being a convenient reforge for a Destro offspec, which has several uses in this tier of raiding.

[Deleted]

afaik the one around 14k(40% haste) isnt an actual Doom BP but an imp swarm BP that allows you to do an extra Imp swarm between DS on pull but with that said, im not too sure what the Doom haste caps are, the only place i seem to be able to find them is ask mr. robot.

[Algekevin]

I believe it's 14873, I use Evrelia's demo video for breakpoints. I used to stack haste but recently went to 8097 then mastery and am not super happy with demo results, just did it for h primordius as destro.

[Deleted]

I've got a question - at what point does demonology become better than affliciton? I am currently 533ilvl (without legendary cloak) running with normal wush+ normal breath for affliction and normal wush + lfr lei shen for demo. Simcraft shows that affliction is 8k ahead and in raids the gap seems to be ever bigger. I know that breath + lei shen is a more reliable choice, and normal/heroic lei shen will help demo too, but any way i sim it affliction seems to be ahead with my current gear.

[Deleted]

I've got a question - at what point does demonology become better than affliciton? I am currently 533ilvl (without legendary cloak) running with normal wush+ normal breath for affliction and normal wush + lfr lei shen for demo. Simcraft shows that affliction is 8k ahead and in raids the gap seems to be ever bigger. I know that breath + lei shen is a more reliable choice, and normal/heroic lei shen will help demo too, but any way i sim it affliction seems to be ahead with my current gear.

Demo becomes better once you get the Lei Shen trinket. Stick to affliction til you get it.

[Deleted]

Demo becomes better once you get the Lei Shen trinket. Stick to affliction til you get it.

As i wrote i have the 2/2 upgraded lfr version of it.

[Deleted]

As i wrote i have the 2/2 upgraded lfr version of it.

Oops sorry, brain lag.

I have to say that it's strange that demo is not simming higher than affliction for you. Are you sure you have the latest version that includes the APL for UVLS?

For me at 530ilvl as affliction with meta gem I gained 20k dps in simcraft by switching to demonology with lfr trinket instead of a normal cha-yes. So I struggle to understand how you would not see similar results.

[Deleted]

I just updated simcraft and ran simulations again. Indeed demonology now is 13k ahead. Thanks for the tip, Liquidsteel. Low dps must be lack of practice then. Additionally, how viable is destruction with lei shen's trinket? i want to go breath + lei shen for demonology and i dont really want to make everyone wait while i hs out to reforge for Primordius. Or is it better to just go with wush + lei shen for demo?

[Deleted]

Yeah demonology can take a while to get used to, but once you get the muscle memory down and get into the 'flow' it's really quite simple. Just keep at it and make sure you put down as many 100% crit dooms as possible and you'll be set. Also 2 piece and using soulfire in meta during dark soul is delicious.

Regarding destruction, I've never used the lei shen trinket with it other than a couple of pulls on horridon where I forgot to switch back to Cha-Yes. General consensus is that its pretty 'meh'. Stick to wush and breath for destruction. If you literally had no choice but to use UVLS, you'd want to get a 100% crit immolate rolling, but in this case just don't bother.

[Werst]

@Liquidsteel/Hellex - destro with UVLS you use the trinket not as an ember spender but as an ember generator. Full immolate if possible but even just a couple fel flames and a RoF seem to yield the best results. Chaosbolt doesn't scale fully with the crit bonus. IE chaosbolt seems to scale only to 100% bonus crit. So if you have 20% base and get a UVLS proc it goes up 80% to the "cap". If you get a proc during destro's darksoul it goes up 50% (20% base + 30% darksoul). Thus even trying to get a CB off with the UVLS buff is very iffy. You are better served getting tons of embers from the 100% crit immolate/RoF with some minor dmg from FF's. Predictably UVLS devalues crit and inflates mastery for destro.

I find if you run 8.1K'ish haste > mastery you are better off with a destro offspec and if you run the full haste setup you are best served by aff OS (but not w/o legendary meta ofc). Just make some power auras for UVLS, meta gem procs, and whatever second trinket you use. Once you get used to the flow of demo (esp w' UVLS) you want to go to meta when you have a trinket proc to spend DF while the proc is up.

[Nivrax]

Last time I used Doom it used to last 1 minute and tick 15 sec, not caring haste for slightest... now that it does scale, does Doom always tick and the end of the duration? Or can it have, say, a tick with 9 sec remaining on debuff and just falling off prematurely? Wondering if I should clip/extend it at ~15 sec remaining if it's still bit more powerful or just let it drop.

[Teye]

Last time I used Doom it used to last 1 minute and tick 15 sec, not caring haste for slightest... now that it does scale, does Doom always tick and the end of the duration? Or can it have, say, a tick with 9 sec remaining on debuff and just falling off prematurely? Wondering if I should clip/extend it at ~15 sec remaining if it's still bit more powerful or just let it drop.

If you're right at a Doom breakpoint, it will tick right at the end. If you have a 5 tick Doom and you're just short of a 6 tick Doom your last tick will be at 12 seconds. Using UVLS as an example, you want to let it fall off completely if you're right at your breakpoint if its buffed by UVLS, unless you have another proc.

[Opeth69]

If you're going for an aff/demo combo and don't want to reforge every fight is there a decent haste cap to aim for that will work well for both ?

[Deleted]

If you're going for an aff/demo combo and don't want to reforge every fight is there a decent haste cap to aim for that will work well for both ?

9778 and the rest into mastery is probably the best option.

[Xyronic]

9778 and the rest into mastery is probably the best option.

This works, 14166 works as well.