[5.4] Demonology Warlock Guide

[Mazda]

Actually I do. Use Gnosis.

Edit: NVM I derped.

[Tazgoth]

If you are multidotting with Doom and it crits on another target, spawning an imp, will the imp change targets to your current target or continue to DPS the target it spawned from?

The wording on Doom: "When Doom critically strikes, a wild imp will be summoned to attack the target."

[Santoisms]

If you are multidotting with Doom and it crits on another target, spawning an imp, will the imp change targets to your current target or continue to DPS the target it spawned from?

The wording on Doom: "When Doom critically strikes, a wild imp will be summoned to attack the target."

Yes, the Imp will attack your current target.

[Mazda]

If you are multidotting with Doom and it crits on another target, spawning an imp, will the imp change targets to your current target or continue to DPS the target it spawned from?

The wording on Doom: "When Doom critically strikes, a wild imp will be summoned to attack the target."

It's a guardian, it works just like any other guardian. i.e. It will EVENTUALLY attack the target you are attacking.

[Zinnin]

Alright, so it has been a few weeks since I started experimenting with the 14873 Haste Demo and I want to talk about it compared to 8097 Demo.

First off, I want to start by saying that both ways of gearing are 100% viable and that choosing which way to go is entirely up to you, and how you want to manage your gear. Both ways of gearing can and will give you solid results if you're playing up to par and not fucking the important things up.

So to start off, I am going to say that I strongly believe that 14873 is slightly better then 8097 on Patchwerk. The fun part of this tier though, is that Patchwerk was NINE tiers ago and isn't a relevant fight anymore. While we may have Single Target fights, we sure as hell don't stand around with our face in our addons anymore, however we can try to replicate it as much as possible.

So the strengths of the higher haste build are these:
-Slightly Stronger Opener
-Slightly Smoother Fury Generation
-Stronger Cooldown Phases (Thus making the damage in between less important)
-More Breaks in Between Spells (Less of a chance on losing DPS to having to suddenly move)

However, it does have several weaknesses compared to the higher mastery build:
-ToC strongly devalued as any haste is 100% wasted when casting ToC
-If you have to move during Cooldowns, you will lose tons and tons of DPS
-High haste isn't great for Destro and lets face it you aren't playing Demo on every fight
-Slightly less Burst AoE DPS (Haste doesn't gain you anything if you are spamming Chaos Wave)

So that said I am going talk about the individual fights a little bit and how I would recommend you go about making the decision which way to gear.

If any of the following are true play 8097:
-You are facing Thok (Even at 8097 Haste you fel flame will be wasting haste during a meta gem proc, and you'll be casting a lot more ToC's then normal)
-You can't stand in EVERYTHING on Iron Juggernaut (I literally don't move for anything at all on this fight anymore and save all defensive cooldowns for the 2nd phase because that is when you will get your second Amp proc and need to be spamming Soul Fires)
-The Pie isn't being taken on Sha of Pride (if you can be the majority of the damage to the Reflection adds, then reforge to mastery and take that pie)
-The Pie isn't being taken on Kor'kron Dark Shaman (if there is more then 3-4 adds up at a time because people aren't killing them, reforge to mastery and take some more pie)
-You have to stand in every single puddle ever on Malkorok (If you have a solid partner in your slice of the room and only have to move when there is more then one, the high haste is nice)
-You like to cast ToC
-You don't like casting Soul Fire
-You play Destro as well and care about the spec

If none of those are true then I would suggest giving 14873 a whirl (14880 if you are a troll for that extra Doom point).

Personally I have two sets of gear and run both Haste levels depending on the fight.

BAM wall of text

[Mazda]

Yadayadayadayada Demo stuff, pretty self explanatory, yadayada...

But then,

Personally I have two sets of gear and run both Haste levels depending on the fight.

BAM wall of text

Wat. 0_0

[Woz]

Wat. 0_0

Multiple full runs of the instance with alts does that to gear.

[Zinnin]

It isn't as hard as you would think to setup, its slightly less efficient overall but allows me to switch back and forth.

Switching which off piece lets you gear two tier / off peices differently, second cloak is easy to pick up. Then its just juggling reforging and gems between a few pieces of gear instead of an entire set. Hardest part is hitting hit caps right.

[Veesh]

Out of curiosity, how are you using your 2p/4p then Zinnin. At first glance it seems the lower haste builds benefit more from the set bonuses. If I get 2p procs in caster, I usually pop into meta and ToC during the buff, making the lower haste build better, I would think. Not to mention the free chaos waves with 20% extra damage.
Speaking of 2p bonus, happen to know if supremacy would benefit more from the 20% extra damage then service? I still use service and I see many top demo locks still do, mostly for the extra fury regen during DS burn I would guess.

[Zinnin]

Out of curiosity, how are you using your 2p/4p then Zinnin. At first glance it seems the lower haste builds benefit more from the set bonuses. If I get 2p procs in caster, I usually pop into meta and ToC during the buff, making the lower haste build better, I would think. Not to mention the free chaos waves with 20% extra damage.
Speaking of 2p bonus, happen to know if supremacy would benefit more from the 20% extra damage then service? I still use service and I see many top demo locks still do, mostly for the extra fury regen during DS burn I would guess.

Single Target:
You shouldn't be getting 2p procs outside of meta to begin with. Even at 8k haste you should be saving Soul Fires for Metamorphosis, Trinkets, and Cooldowns. Your conditions for using MC is basically this:

-If you have a Trinket proc or Dark Soul and Metamorphosis up
-If you are at 8-9 stacks you should dump 1 stack to make sure you don't cap
-If the boss is ~30% and any stacks you are holding on to are about to be wasted

If you have been dry on trinket procs and are sitting on high MC stacks a good time to dump a couple is when Doom has <10s left so you can bait the damage increase for the refresh. Dumping 1-2 Stacks when you are at 7+ before a HoG weave isn't bad either.

If you are using MC correctly you won't be reacting to 2pc procs (outside of maybe a good Doom refresh) and they will just be giving another damage increase on top of Cooldowns / Trinkets.

This means that if you are using 4pc, the far bigger concern is making sure you are watching for 4pc procs, and are making sure to weave if you have a charge available. Keep in mind when you are weaving HoG how many MC stacks you have, when you next DS is, and how much fury you have. When you weave if you don't have any procs up you should just ToC twice and drop out, if you have a meta gem proc you should soul fire once and drop out.

Running 8k Haste doesn't mean ToC is good, it just makes it less punitive to be casting. The only Haste point where ToC can be considered rival to Soul Fire is 3k, and I doubt anyone is running that low anymore.

AoE:
Basically for AoE everything above is just swapped around. You want to be spending fury on ToC to get Chaos Wave Procs and you want to be using MC in between MF uses to get as much fury as possible, and to try to bait a 2pc right before MF.

[Veesh]

Thanks for the clarification.

[coupes]

imp swarm still not worth it ?

[Jessicka]

imp swarm still not worth it ?

In theory no, but in practice I get better results with it than without. I find it makes Fury management a little easier and that you'll be less starved when blowing cooldowns.

[coupes]

was going to try it tonite , would it be better with a higher haste build im running 8100 atm http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Coupes/simple

[Taninsam]

In theory no, but in practice I get better results with it than without. I find it makes Fury management a little easier and that you'll be less starved when blowing cooldowns.

Idem. In certain encounters it works really well, even if it's a theoretical dps loss. On semi-patchwerk encounters I wouldn't use it (Jugg, Noru, Malk), but situationally it could represent a dps gain.

[Betrayerx]

was going to try it tonite , would it be better with a higher haste build im running 8100 atm http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Coupes/simple

As long as you don't just blow it off cd it's better to have IS than not have it. You don't really lose anything by sitting on it after it comes off cd because you still gain DC while you wait for a good chance to use it.

[Werst]

Imp swarm is one of those things that is way better to use with a haste proc CD and sit on it awhile than just use on CD. If you have the skill, weak auras, patience to use it with at least a meta gem proc it can be superior in practice...esp w' troll racial/opener/etc. Just takes knowing the fight (ie your specific guild kill times/timing) relative to your other CD's and what your other gear looks like. For 8100 with max mastery I'd probably use it...at the 15K'ish haste point I'd probably not but that's just a feel thing since I occasionally feel DF starved at 8100 but seldom do when playing the higher haste points.

[Mazda]

Imp swarm is one of those things that is way better to use with a haste proc CD and sit on it awhile than just use on CD. If you have the skill, weak auras, patience to use it with at least a meta gem proc it can be superior in practice...esp w' troll racial/opener/etc. Just takes knowing the fight (ie your specific guild kill times/timing) relative to your other CD's and what your other gear looks like. For 8100 with max mastery I'd probably use it...at the 15K'ish haste point I'd probably not but that's just a feel thing since I occasionally feel DF starved at 8100 but seldom do when playing the higher haste points.

sidenote: Warcraft logs has the ability to keep track of individual imps. So you can see how much damage a specific imp did, when it was up, and how many you had total. It's pretty neat. Combining this functionality with the ability to see resource gains via timeline, I think it's actually possible to math out when to glyph vs no-glyph or when to 8100 vs 15k

[Bloodfire]

I'm feeling disgusted with Affliction and want to switch Demo back. Any new tips or changes in general rotation? Demo was far far fun to play then Aff. So, stat weights are closely nearby?

[Taninsam]

Most of us are capping haste at 8097 then going Mastery >= Crit, meaning you should still have a healthy amount of crit instead of going all out Mastery.