1.07 looks great

[Kelimbror]

The biggest fault they made and are still making is keeping to the strict linear gear progression though, as explained above there are multiple things they could add to widen the progression making it feel less linear while keeping the same overall linear goal, mainly through item upgrades, alternate gems colors, even adding runes, this doesn't have to happen all at once even as non of them move the original goal but only expands on the gear you already have, as an added benefit you remove gear from the game through making any modification bind the item to account as well.

A win win situation for all involved that allows a wide variety of additional content at varying difficulty levels to be introduced to provide these additional improvement paths.

Those are good ideas, but like I said...perhaps they are holding such widened gear capabilities with the expansion? They don't want to make this version of the game too good.

Item upgrades are a horrible idea, unless the way to do it was with mats that drop less frequently than rares, but more frequently than legendaries. Possibly tie it into actually killing bosses with the NV stack so that there is some motivation to do more than farm circles over and over. The reason why I say it is horrible is because the mats would be available to sell on the AH or else they wouldn't implement it. It would defeat the whole purpose.

Like I said before, if you removed the AH and their desire to make money off of it, we would probably have a much better game.


Unless you mean item upgrades like they work in TL2, where killing x number of this type of mob changes it to a better weapon. I like things like that. It would be a blatant ripoff, but it would be cool. Kinda akin to the battered hilt...kill x boss, forge the weapon in their blood. Then free an angel with the corrupted weapon forging the Angelic Hell Spear. Etc etc. Again, kinda like an MMO.

Runes would be even more of a nightmare than we already have with their balancing of the game. They still haven't figured out how to get people to stop using cookie cutters 99% of the time. Every change they make only changes the shape of the cutter. I don't really want them to throw in another mandatory modifier to gear or abilities that will become yet another cookie cutter.

[Redblade]

*snip*

The idea at it's core is based around adding dungeons with varying difficulties within, much like WoW raids as a template, sections of trash and elite packs leading up to a boss and more trash leading to another boss or multiple boss rooms unlocking doorways leading in to harder trash and bosses, with the elite packs and bosses dropping materials used for upgrades in an increasing amount the further you can progress.

The MP system sadly complicates the concept but hopefully you get the gist of the basic idea that is expandable in many ways creating a multitude of minor sub goals on the way to that final goal of gear perfection. This is what I mean by horizontal development instead of vertical, making the journey feel less linear with small victories along the way.

[Kelimbror]

The idea at it's core is based around adding dungeons with varying difficulties within, much like WoW raids as a template, sections of trash and elite packs leading up to a boss and more trash leading to another boss or multiple boss rooms unlocking doorways leading in to harder trash and bosses, with the elite packs and bosses dropping materials used for upgrades in an increasing amount the further you can progress.

If the upgrades made the gear bound to you, which I think you mentioned, then it would be ok. Otherwise we're still in the same position we have been.

Also, like every piece of content these days, it would be beaten in hours by people who have poured real money and/or time into the game with their God gear. Otherwise, it would have to be tuned so insanely hard that no one would be able to do it. People would complain and it would be nerfed into the ground bringing us back to here.

If there was some hard cap on where gear could reach, but then they added higher and higher difficulty encounters, I can see how this would be challenging and extend the play. However I would have to point out what I keep saying:

This would basically make this into an MMO...which everyone says they don't want. They complain for MMO features, then complain when the game starts to go there. I think the reality is everyone actually wants it to be an MMO, but they are still going to complain about it like hipsters saying it's not what they wanted.

[Redblade]

If the upgrades made the gear bound to you, which I think you mentioned, then it would be ok. Otherwise we're still in the same position we have been.

Also, like every piece of content these days, it would be beaten in hours by people who have poured real money and/or time into the game with their God gear. Otherwise, it would have to be tuned so insanely hard that no one would be able to do it. People would complain and it would be nerfed into the ground bringing us back to here.

If there was some hard cap on where gear could reach, but then they added higher and higher difficulty encounters, I can see how this would be challenging and extend the play. However I would have to point out what I keep saying:

This would basically make this into an MMO...which everyone says they don't want. They complain for MMO features, then complain when the game starts to go there. I think the reality is everyone actually wants it to be an MMO, but they are still going to complain about it like hipsters saying it's not what they wanted.

The point of increasing difficulties within the dungeons is to accommodate all skill and gear levels, with increasing rewards (not massive increments) you make sure that players with low gear and/or skill can still work towards the minor upgrades by only doing partial runs, while it has some degree of downside by accelerating as you get better gear and skill it's negated by how hard actual gear upgrades are to achieve the further you get towards the gear perfection goal.

As far as people want it to be an MMO goes I think you are right to some degree, they want it in one aspect but at the same time don't want to overall goal to be moved which is why I think my concept would be the way to go, it allows for adding minor goals and more maps and content without the never ending gear ladder that is WoW progression system.

[Kelimbror]

it allows for adding minor goals and more maps and content without the never ending gear ladder that is WoW progression system.

With a never ending upgrade system, this isn't true though.

So I'm assuming you are saying that you want a finite cap on upgrades? B/c technically that moves the end goal for gear too..since now BiS gear isn't BiS gear anymore. It will be once it's upgraded. If you take your system and add it purely for the challenge, with no further gear than what we already have, then you have added content without changing the gear situation.

Not attacking you, but even you can't seem to explain it without asking for a gear progression. Regardless of how far the upgrades go, you just justified having a little bit longer of a treadmill. It's almost as if beating the challenege isn't enough of a reward...and I completely agree with that.

This is why I keep saying everyone asks for one thing in Diablo, but they actually want everything they say they don't. They just don't realize that it's the same.

[Bugg]

piece of shait with the new gems and gem prices. $$.

[Redblade]

With a never ending upgrade system, this isn't true though.

So I'm assuming you are saying that you want a finite cap on upgrades? B/c technically that moves the end goal for gear too..since now BiS gear isn't BiS gear anymore. It will be once it's upgraded. If you take your system and add it purely for the challenge, with no further gear than what we already have, then you have added content without changing the gear situation.

Not attacking you, but even you can't seem to explain it without asking for a gear progression. Regardless of how far the upgrades go, you just justified having a little bit longer of a treadmill. It's almost as if beating the challenege isn't enough of a reward...and I completely agree with that.

This is why I keep saying everyone asks for one thing in Diablo, but they actually want everything they say they don't. They just don't realize that it's the same.

Well the progressing I'm asking for is based on improving your current gear, it doesn't change the actual gear your aiming at getting but it does enable you to get rewarded during your process of achieving that gear set you aim at, sure the various upgrades moves the BiS bar to the extent that you would have to upgrade the final set of gear, something you would do as you go. Instead of having a goal that will require 2000 hours to achieve you have that goal with added goals along the way that keep the player feeling rewarded for he's efforts, if nothing else partially solves the "good items never drop" issue as it's not the only focus of reward.

The benefits is that you can base content around the upgrades while creating a challenge that requires better and better gear within that content, something the game kinda lacks at the moment.

I think the whole concept solves a lot of issues that the current design has without moving away from the basic ARPG game.

[Deleted]

Man I just can't wait for the 100mil gems TBH.

And then the expansion will hit and just add runewords back in.

[Kelimbror]

Well the progressing I'm asking for is based on improving your current gear, it doesn't change the actual gear your aiming at getting

The only thing that does this is when they rebalance stat effectiveness, like the IAS nerf. This is horrible and should never happen...I expect they realize it is a mistake from their hesitance to do anything with OWE.

Adding new gear that can be crafted doesn't change what gear you are going for, it just gives you different way to go about it. From a personal standpoint, you can now translate your farming time into crafting mats, then further chance it on crafting these new items. They may or may not be better than some pieces, but I seriously doubt switching out to all crafting pieces for a high level player with set gear is going to be beneficial.

I imagine this change is for people who don't have the gold/real money or luck and need to supplement a very low grade set of gear in order to tackle some higher challenges. I think people are overreacting to the addition of this gear. Plus, people have been complaining about crafting since the game released, at least Blizz is trying to make it useful.

but it does enable you to get rewarded during your process of achieving that gear set you aim at, sure the various upgrades moves the BiS bar to the extent that you would have to upgrade the final set of gear, something you would do as you go. Instead of having a goal that will require 2000 hours to achieve you have that goal with added goals along the way that keep the player feeling rewarded for he's efforts, if nothing else partially solves the "good items never drop" issue as it's not the only focus of reward.

Who says it wouldn't take 2000 hours? Additionally, where does it end? Does it go on forever until the expansion comes out and then they have to design everything and put gear that vastly outpowers the upgraded gear? How is this really any different than paragon? Other than actively 'putting points' somewhere and having a new playground to do it in, Paragon achieves the same thing.

The benefits is that you can base content around the upgrades while creating a challenge that requires better and better gear within that content, something the game kinda lacks at the moment.

I think the whole concept solves a lot of issues that the current design has without moving away from the basic ARPG game.

Yes, right into being the Diablo MMO. Which people absolutely railed it for being too much like already.

[Redblade]

The only thing that does this is when they rebalance stat effectiveness, like the IAS nerf. This is horrible and should never happen...I expect they realize it is a mistake from their hesitance to do anything with OWE.

Adding new gear that can be crafted doesn't change what gear you are going for, it just gives you different way to go about it. From a personal standpoint, you can now translate your farming time into crafting mats, then further chance it on crafting these new items. They may or may not be better than some pieces, but I seriously doubt switching out to all crafting pieces for a high level player with set gear is going to be beneficial.

It really doesn't, I can't be arsed to go through the concept once more clarifying each and every aspect of it.

I imagine this change is for people who don't have the gold/real money or luck and need to supplement a very low grade set of gear in order to tackle some higher challenges. I think people are overreacting to the addition of this gear. Plus, people have been complaining about crafting since the game released, at least Blizz is trying to make it useful.

Which is why you balance it where the entry requirements are low with an increase in difficulty, this allows most players to do the first section(s) thus able to get the upgrades.

Who says it wouldn't take 2000 hours? Additionally, where does it end? Does it go on forever until the expansion comes out and then they have to design everything and put gear that vastly outpowers the upgraded gear? How is this really any different than paragon? Other than actively 'putting points' somewhere and having a new playground to do it in, Paragon achieves the same thing.

No one said it shouldn't take 2000 hours, adding minor goals and rawards through upgrades along the way doesn't break that goal which is what I been saying all along, the overall goal should be the same, what my suggestion adds is a rewarding feeling along the way breaking the monotony of the hundreds of hours between upgrades towards the top end of the spectrum, it also gives the player in the lower the opportunity to help them selfs improve without the need for millions of gold.

Yes, right into being the Diablo MMO. Which people absolutely railed it for being too much like already.

Having more content along the way to the same end goal does not make it an MMO, but hey lets keep with the narrow vision that Blizzard has the game on now and we can all quit and forget the game soon enough.

[Grummgug]

I wouldnt say people want d3 to be an MMO. WoW has been moving in the direction of an ARPG. The novel feature of an MMO which never existed before was this massive graphical game world to explore and play in. The creation of the lfg tool, battlegrounds, & lfr, essentially strive to turn WoW into an arpg where you are either in town or instantly teleport somewhere to play the content.

You could basically remove the game world at this point in WoW, instance everything, make it all queuable, and people would barely notice the difference. Thats what an arpg looks like, withg for example d2 and waypoints and portals taking you at or near all the content.

[Kelimbror]

I wouldnt say people want d3 to be an MMO. WoW has been moving in the direction of an ARPG. The novel feature of an MMO which never existed before was this massive graphical game world to explore and play in. The creation of the lfg tool, battlegrounds, & lfr, essentially strive to turn WoW into an arpg where you are either in town or instantly teleport somewhere to play the content.

...not even sure what kind of logic got you here. We've had hearthstones, soulstones, and flight paths to take you from town 'to instantly play the content' for a long time. Not sure what your beef is with quicker travel now.

You could basically remove the game world at this point in WoW, instance everything, make it all queuable, and people would barely notice the difference. Thats what an arpg looks like, withg for example d2 and waypoints and portals taking you at or near all the content.

This statement is pretty ridiculous and not even close to accurate.

[Grimbold21]

I decided to give D3 ago after a very long break.

First impressions: damn "normal" Inferno is easy.

[Whitepepper]

...The MP system sadly complicates the concept but hopefully you get the gist of the basic idea that is expandable in many ways creating a multitude of minor sub goals on the way to that final goal of gear perfection. This is what I mean by horizontal development instead of vertical, making the journey feel less linear with small victories along the way.

I always associated vertical progression with increasing player power and horizontal progression as cosmetic "upgrades". In this thread you are describing things that would increase player power. Whether you upgrade the gear you have or replace the gear you have the goal posts of gear perfection have still been moved as you like to say. I like the idea of expanding crafting, or ability to add sockets, or ability to add affixes, and whatever else would fall into the category of your suggestion. My only question is, what's the difference in grinding the mats or whatever would be used for these upgrades and grinding new items? ( or grinding gold to buy new items) Your main gripe about the game is moving the goal posts of player power but your suggestions still move those goal posts, just in a different way. Seemingly your own solution compounds the problem.

[Video Games]

Now all they need to do is put in something to do after you've beaten inferno.

[Kelimbror]

Now all they need to do is put in something to do after you've beaten inferno.

Not sure if serious or....

MP1-10
Paragon Levels
Keys and Hellfire Ring
Farming gear

[Repefe]

MP1-10
Paragon Levels
Keys and Hellfire Ring
Farming gear

Only Hellfire Ring is something to do MP, Paragon levels and farming gear is the same default activity. But I would add you can do the achievs that are in the game.

[Video Games]

Only Hellfire Ring is something to do MP, Paragon levels and farming gear is the same default activity. But I would add you can do the achievs that are in the game.

This plus none of them are any fun anyway.

[Kelimbror]

Only Hellfire Ring is something to do MP, Paragon levels and farming gear is the same default activity. But I would add you can do the achievs that are in the game.

Everything in the game is the same default acitivty. You press buttons, kill monsters, collect loot. So implying that there is 'nothing to do' after you beat inferno is false. Your statement is also false. They are all things to do.

Just because someone doesn't like what there is to do doesn't mean it ceases to exist.

[Repefe]

Everything in the game is the same default acitivty. You press buttons, kill monsters, collect loot. So implying that there is 'nothing to do' after you beat inferno is false. Your statement is also false. They are all things to do.

Just because someone doesn't like what there is to do doesn't mean it ceases to exist.

It's like saying you can collect gold from dead monsters ... activity 1. You kill monsters ... activity 2. What's the point of writing those things separately The MP, gear farm, paragon levels farm = one activity. Hell fire ring farming = one activity. Achievs farming = one activity.