How can people be ok with Vengeance?

[Hyve]

Because the dps' job is to pull numbers. It's why that role is fun. You took taht fun and gave it to the tanks. Now the dps have to play second fiddle to tanks.

You still do pull numbers. You should play your class (and this game) because it is fun, the fights, the aspect of playing with friends and the enjoyment of actually playing the class, the rotation, the skill. If the fun aspect is beating other people in a chart, then go play on an Excel Spreadsheet ...

[Resentful]

And all you are doing is increasing your post count.

Hey you're giving me a reason to so you're being helpful so by all means continue to complain while we continue to ridicule you on why you are complaining about one of the most silliest things I have ever read like It's AMAZING

Boss dying is all that matters haha yet you are here because AHHHHHHHHHHH I CAN'T OUT DMG A TANKKKK EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP NURF IT CUZ IT'S ALL ABOUT ME ME ME MEME MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Nice

This will be an entertaining night oh and btw continue replying to me It makes it even more funny.

[Luciferstwin]

Hey you're giving me a reason to so you're being helpful so by all means continue to complain while we continue to ridicule you on why you are complaining about one of the most silliest things I have ever read like It's AMAZING

Boss dying is all that matters haha

This will be an entertaining night oh and btw continue replying to me It makes it even more funny.

Looks at Apathy's post count.... *jaw drops*

[Waterisbest]

I'll disagree with this partially; I think that tank DPS should be significant, just not as much as it is now.

I agree the tanks dps should matter. Like it did in WotLK, tanks did about 50%-60% of the damage dps did. Not like is it right.

[Resentful]

Looks at Apathy's post count.... *jaw drops*

I'm actually suppose to be killing people in this battle ground but his replies are like golden comedy's It's quite amazing.

[Waterisbest]

You still do pull numbers. You should play your class (and this game) because it is fun, the fights, the aspect of playing with friends and the enjoyment of actually playing the class, the rotation, the skill. If the fun aspect is beating other people in a chart, then go play on an Excel Spreadsheet ...

The fun aspect is beating people on the meters as well. That's why a dps picked up a damage dealing class/specc, not tank or healer.

[Firebert]

You still do pull numbers. You should play your class (and this game) because it is fun, the fights, the aspect of playing with friends and the enjoyment of actually playing the class, the rotation, the skill.

Proving to the other players that you are more skilful than them by beating them on an arbitrary chart is usually where the whole rivalry between raid-mates starts.

When the tank is beating a proportion of the raid on that chart, whilst also doing his Tank duties, it saps that rivalry.

Maybe DPS should be looking for the Least Damage Taken chart instead of the DPS chart to prove their skill?

[fengosa]

What 8 fights? Seriously how does any dps get out dps'd by a tank on garalon? or elegon?

They don't. That statement is ridiculous since the tanks receive the same dmg buff as dps do so it doesn't affect balance between the two at all.

[Luciferstwin]

I'm actually suppose to be killing people in this battle ground but his replies are like golden comedy's It's quite amazing.

Hahaaha

/10char

[Mindark]

I agree the tanks dps should matter. Like it did in WotLK, tanks did about 50%-60% of the damage dps did. Not like is it right.

And when you have bad dps still doing less than the tank, they'll complain that they're being emasculated by the tank and create a thread titled "How can people be okay with Tanks?"

[Resentful]

Proving to the other players that you are more skilful than them by beating them on an arbitrary chart is usually where the whole rivalry between raid-mates starts.

When the tank is beating a proportion of the raid on that chart, whilst also doing his Tank duties, it saps that rivalry.

Maybe DPS should be looking for the Least Damage Taken chart instead of the DPS chart to prove their skill?

Lol or DPS shouldn't give a F like most guilds do cept this guy of course with a handful like him get outdamaged by a tank

hahahaha what too soon? Opps

[Hakto]

I NEVER said the tanks in my raid were out dpsing most of my raid... I said tanks right are doing far more dps then dps themselves. My argument isn't based around my raid. IT'S BASED AROUND SITES THAT TRACK DPS ON FIGHTS.

You cannot base anything from top log parses, because surprise, surprise once guilds have this on farm they stack buffs/tactics to pull out these parses, it's as far from a true indication as you can possibly get.

[Waterisbest]

You cannot base anything from top log parses, because surprise, surprise once guilds have this on farm they stack buffs/tactics to pull out these parses, it's as far from a true indication as you can possibly get.

These logs never had tanks in the top 10, or 100 or 1000 or 10000 or more. Because surprise surprise, tanks didn't do the damage they are doing right now.

[Deleted]

OP - raids are about group effort.

Your post is "me me me". Vengence is not the problem, your attitude it.

[RedFlame]

Hey, Mr. Waterisbest, you know your basing all these assumptions of yours on a flawed interpretation of data? you keep linking that spec score on raid bots, and those numbers don't mean what you think they mean. they are determined by how good each spec is compared to the others. they are also only compared to the same role. brewmaster being on top means its the best of the tanks. click the overall dps, and you see all the tanks quite far under the rest of the dps pack, barring the constantly mentioned AoEfest fights this tier. all 2 of them.

[Braindwen]

Seriously how does any dps get out dps'd by a tank on garalon? or elegon?

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...&e=8045#Ahanss

Like that^.
Although if you dig even a little bit, you realize that's mostly a product of our strategy (which is weird, not gonna lie. It started because we had horrid OT's the first couple of weeks that died if Elegon sneezed at them, and by the time we tried heroic we had enough DPS to keep doing it anyway), and as a result our OT does horrible DPS through pretty much no fault of his own.

Vengeance is fine mostly because you can't add more tanks and have them still do as much DPS as a DPS. So there's no risk of pulling in more than maybe one extra tank in a DPS's spot, and if you REALLY care that much, you can be like our hunter and ignore me completely.

[Waterisbest]

OP - raids are about group effort.

Your post is "me me me". Vengence is not the problem, your attitude it.

Vengeance is the problem. I have never created a "qq" (as some of you will call it) thread ever before, and I have been on these forums for a VERY long time.

[Dasani]

Another thing DPS whiners fail to realize is having those high veng numbers make it more fun to tank. This is important because tanking numbers have always been low, by far the least represented role people play, and blizzard is always trying to come up with incentives to make them more appealing and fun to play. This is part of that.

This is no different than the DPSers pulling on their mothers' dresses and crying that they have to wait so long in queue for dungeons and demanding blizzard fix it. It wasn't something that could just be "fixed" because you can't force people to play what is needed. Every DPS that was crying about the problem was PART OF the problem by not playing tanks or healers but expecting other people to for their own benefit. So blizzard adds goodie bags for tanks and occasionally healers when they're needed, then DPS community gets up in arms about that saying how unfair it is to give tanks more rewards, etc, yadda yadda, wha wha.

Vengeance is just the latest thing DPS want to cry about. They want the entire game to revolve around them and specifically their fun and what they are doing only. They expect tanks and healers to be there for no other purpose than to facilitate them pulling big numbers on bosses. Then when they lose their e-peen dps race to a tank because of how the fight is designed, they rage and cry about it endlessly about how it isnt right that anyone else should ever be able to have fun doing big numbers unless they are DPSers themselves, which would just drive more people to DPS roles and away from tanking, making the world worse for prettymuch everybody.

You can't have it both ways. Tanks need some fun too, and a lot of them that play these days are more attracted to the role because of those numbers. If you take that away, tank pops WILL drop and that will negatively affect everyone. And for what? So you can say a tank didn't beat you on the dps meter? Give me a break. Grow up and get a clue, stop complaining about something so unimportant. Your dps isnt going to go up anymore just because someone else's goes down.

[Luciferstwin]

These logs never had tanks in the top 10, or 100 or 1000 or 10000 or more. Because surprise surprise, tanks didn't do the damage they are doing right now.

OH MY GOD!!! CATA SUCKED CUZ WE HAD TANKS IN THE TOP 10!!!

http://worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/Firelands/dps/

[Christan]

Than learn to play, of the tanks are beating you on most fights its your fault and you are just not playing to your full potential !!!!

yeah...this pretty much
everyone in my guild can beat me on single target with my BRM main Hakujaden-darkspear(us) and ofc on my undergeared guardian adaline
aoe though....is a different story...ohh god the numbers i can pull on windlord...
which is actually in comparison to other brm's a little low i end the fight at about 230-240k
and i think i was second place damage that fight as well. ohh brm are strong atm single and aoe, but everyone except OT beats me single target