Sylvanas Windrunner

[Silentrogue]

Sylvanas mass-raises innocent people into undead against their will. The thing that she hated Lich King for.

That should make all the world try to chase her. But it gets ignored for some reason.

So your basically telling us that if u were murdered, you wouldn't like a chance to be resurrected again to take revenge or to avenge your murdered beloved ones??? That's absurd.

Scourge were undead from day 1, they were risen by LK and Lady S did something good in order to give them free will and they became loyal to her...she freed them.

Lady S should take over the Horde and crush the alliance...

You are welcome.

[SherbertLand]

The forsaken have farms where they bury humans up to their necks keeping them ready for harvest or to be eaten by ghouls. They pile up their enemies' bodies in mass graves and raise them from the dead giving them the sadistic choice of 'serve me or be put back to death' and that's just the ones that still have it in them to talk. Where are the alliance POW camps that do that? The humans weren't that bad to orcs they kept in camps even after they destroyed Stormwind and raised some of its defenders as undead death knights.



Sylvanas only gave a shit because he started using other forsaken in his experiments.

That's a straight up lie. Forsaken are given the choice upon rising to either serve the Banshee Queen or go do something else. They don't threaten to kill you again.

[zito]

That's a straight up lie. Forsaken are given the choice upon rising to either serve the Banshee Queen or go do something else. They don't threaten to kill you again.

You kill the ones that go crazy.

[SherbertLand]

You kill the ones that go crazy.

We kill everything that goes crazy. Going crazy to justfiy getting killed is kind of a common theme in wow.

[Scummer]

So your basically telling us that if u were murdered, you wouldn't like a chance to be resurrected again to take revenge or to avenge your murdered beloved ones??? That's absurd.

Necromancy doesn't work like that. You don't just get ressed. Your being and soul are corrupted in the process, the light rejects you so on so forth. We're also aware that when a person is raised in this manner they are revived in a berserk state.

[Verdugo]

the light rejects you so on so forth.

That is bad how...?

[MatadorMedia]

Sylvanas is the most interesting character WoW still has to offer. She is essentially Arthas/LichKing 2.0. Her need to protect her people and also to seek power & revenge have changed her into this cold-hearted and careless leader. She's still a deadly force to be reckoned with, especially since the Forsaken will follow her to whatever crazed end she has in store.

With the Kor'kron elite watching over Undercity, Garrosh has held Sylvanas in check. She will not be one of the leaders in the coup of Orgrimmar. The ousting of Garrosh will be led by the finally-coming-out-of-his-shell Vol'jin and the increasingly unstable Jaina Proudmore.

[Dybia]

That is bad how...?

Well let's look at other races that have been deafened to the light by other means, shall we? There's the broken draenei who only managed to cling to life after they found shamanism. Then there's the blood elves. Things worked out perfectly for them, huh? They'd still be the asshole arcane leeches they were if not for Velen restoring the sunwell and showing them the light again.

Being rejected by the light for whatever corruptive reason never really works out for any group of people very well.

Oh, and if Sylvanas is anything to go by, you go to HELL. Though I think that was just her.

[Maxilian]

Well i think that many of the thing that Sylvanas did (in cataclysm) is Garrosh fault, for example: People blame Sylvanas because she started raising enemies soldiers under her command (in the beggining she raised people and gave them the oportunity to chose their fate) but Garrosh send Sylvanas to war and Sylvanas told him: that she had no reason to fight Gilneas, but Garrosh said that if she did not obey that would be considered as treason to the Horde, also she said that she can't afford go to war cause her people could not reproduce and if that continue they would die out, and in the past the used to free the undead from the lich king grasp to make them join her, but now there's no lich king, so there's no many undeads that she can free, so she got the Valkyrs and learned that they can raise people and make them part of her army, and that would fix the problem of not being able to reproduce.

So... how is Sylvanas the bad guy?, the only bad thing she have done in the moment is what she did to Koltiras (we aren't even sure what she did or is doing to him) but in the end what Koltiras was doing was wrong, it would have been considered to be treason, and in most case he would have been killed or taked to jail, or in the best case, he would have been kicked out of the Horde.

[Mawnix]

Sylvanas so far had 0 involvement into this conflict since MoP, and she's supposed the one that sparks the siege and takes the crown afterwards?

Seems similiar to a Deus Ex.



She's a military leader (and even a bad one since WoW) not a political Leader.

She uses her people as Shield against the fate that happens to her when she dies and the entire culture of the Forsaken is centered around her.

Only Dictators try to put them within the center of their people's culture.

I had completely forgotten to respond to this.

As for her ousting Garrosh, she's supposed to make an appearance and have a large role like Lorthemar did in 5.1.

They wouldn't just toss her in and be like "Here's Sylvanas. Here's Garrosh. Siege inc."

And as for your other comment, she doesn't use her people as a shield.

It's even explicitely understood after the fall of the Lich King, she truly saw the value of her people, not as tools nor a shield, but a group of beings she was in charge to protect and help thrive no matter what.

She's not a Dictator.

She's a leader who is hell bent on doing whatever it takes to keep the Forsaken alive, and have them prosper.

One could say it's comparable to Garrosh and the Orcs/Horde, but Sylvanas has two things he doesn't: Logic and a sense of Honor/Respect.

[Kralljin]

Those rogue Forsaken are the ones using the plague.

Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: You'd do well to watch your tone, General. Neither you nor Garrosh have anything to worry about. We've ceased all production of the Plague, as he ordered. We'd never deploy it without his permission.
General Warhowl says: I will deliver my report to our leader, then. By your leave, my lady.
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: Go with honor, General.
High Executor Crenshaw says: My Lady! Should I order my men to stop development of the Plague? Or are we to continue as planned?
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: What kind of question is that? Of course we're deploying the Plague as planned! Let the Gilneans enjoy their small victory. Not even their bones will remain by tomorrow.

Sylvanas is a rogue Forsaken?

As far as i know the Sludge Fields were used to produce Mushrooms and Sludge, what kind of sludge or mushrooms i don't even want to know.

But he got executed because he developed something that turned Forsaken into mindless Zombies, which he forced other Forsaken to drink, he made it pretty clear that no one should learn of his failure to keep the situation under control or his experiments.

http://www.wowpedia.org/Quest:Discre...ey_%28Horde%29

I had completely forgotten to respond to this.

As for her ousting Garrosh, she's supposed to make an appearance and have a large role like Lorthemar did in 5.1.

Not much time left, except if she suddenly appears during the next Questchain

And as for your other comment, she doesn't use her people as a shield.

"The army of undead that surrounded and protected the Dark Lady was still hers, body and soul. But they were no longer arrows in her quiver, not anymore. They were a bulwark against the infinite."

Directly taken from the short story.

Don't see a huge difference between Bulwark and Shield in this context.

It's even explicitely understood after the fall of the Lich King, she truly saw the value of her people, not as tools nor a shield, but a group of beings she was in charge to protect and help thrive no matter what.

The actual use of the Forsaken is to protect Sylvanas from death because she doesn't want to end up in the same realm of terror as Arthas.

The only thing she realised is that she can't throw away the lives of the Forsaken because she cannot replace them quickly enough.

She's not a Dictator.

Why she's not one?

Does she tolerate any people that do not agree with her?

She's a leader who is hell bent on doing whatever it takes to keep the Forsaken alive, and have them prosper.

Because her own fate depends on the survival of the Forsaken, if there are no Forsaken left, her bulwark is gone.

Sylvanas will end up in the same Realm of Terror as after her suicide, which she will be stuck there for the rest of eternity.

Sylvanas tries to keep the Forsaken alive because she is keeping herself alive with it, not because she "loves" her people.

She is using the Forsaken for her own intentions, nothing more, yet again she can hide it behind "noble goals" however, and since most Forsaken blindly loyal to her (which is probably an effect of her major part of Forsaken culture) they would even agree with that.

[Maxilian]

Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: You'd do well to watch your tone, General. Neither you nor Garrosh have anything to worry about. We've ceased all production of the Plague, as he ordered. We'd never deploy it without his permission.
General Warhowl says: I will deliver my report to our leader, then. By your leave, my lady.
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: Go with honor, General.
High Executor Crenshaw says: My Lady! Should I order my men to stop development of the Plague? Or are we to continue as planned?
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: What kind of question is that? Of course we're deploying the Plague as planned! Let the Gilneans enjoy their small victory. Not even their bones will remain by tomorrow.

Sylvanas is a rogue Forsaken?

As far as i know the Sludge Fields were used to produce Mushrooms and Sludge, what kind of sludge or mushrooms i don't even want to know.

But he got executed because he developed something that turned Forsaken into mindless Zombies, which he forced other Forsaken to drink, he made it pretty clear that no one should learn of his failure to keep the situation under control or his experiments.

http://www.wowpedia.org/Quest:Discre...ey_%28Horde%29

Yes is true, Sylvanas does aprove the use of the plague and why not? the plague give her an advantage against her enemies, also the forsaken does multiple types of experiments to improve the way they life or the way the fight (the plague), but then the guy was executed cause he started hurting his own people and started to add like a crazy doctor.

---------- Post added 2013-01-14 at 10:54 AM ----------

Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: You'd do well to watch your tone, General. Neither you nor Garrosh have anything to worry about. We've ceased all production of the Plague, as he ordered. We'd never deploy it without his permission.
General Warhowl says: I will deliver my report to our leader, then. By your leave, my lady.
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: Go with honor, General.
High Executor Crenshaw says: My Lady! Should I order my men to stop development of the Plague? Or are we to continue as planned?
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: What kind of question is that? Of course we're deploying the Plague as planned! Let the Gilneans enjoy their small victory. Not even their bones will remain by tomorrow.

Sylvanas is a rogue Forsaken?

As far as i know the Sludge Fields were used to produce Mushrooms and Sludge, what kind of sludge or mushrooms i don't even want to know.

But he got executed because he developed something that turned Forsaken into mindless Zombies, which he forced other Forsaken to drink, he made it pretty clear that no one should learn of his failure to keep the situation under control or his experiments.

http://www.wowpedia.org/Quest:Discre...ey_%28Horde%29




Not much time left, except if she suddenly appears during the next Questchain



"The army of undead that surrounded and protected the Dark Lady was still hers, body and soul. But they were no longer arrows in her quiver, not anymore. They were a bulwark against the infinite."

Directly taken from the short story.

Don't see a huge difference between Bulwark and Shield in this context.



The actual use of the Forsaken is to protect Sylvanas from death because she doesn't want to end up in the same realm of terror as Arthas.

The only thing she realised is that she can't throw away the lives of the Forsaken because she cannot replace them quickly enough.



Why she's not one?

Does she tolerate any people that do not agree with her?



Because her own fate depends on the survival of the Forsaken, they are no Forsaken left, her bulwark is gone.

Sylvanas will end up in the same Realm of Terror as after her suicide, which is stuck there the rest of eternity.

Sylvanas tries to keep the Forsaken alive because she is keeping herself alive with it, not because she "loves" her people.

She is using the Forsaken for her own intentions, nothing more, this time she can hide it behind "noble goals" however.

Well she have never acted as a dictator, the only time she did something agaisnt someone that was against her was when that person do something to harm her or her people (For example that guy at the forsaken starting zone that becames the boss of the rottenbrain group, they got targeted cause they were planning to attack brill)

[Verdugo]

Well let's look at other races that have been deafened to the light by other means, shall we? There's the broken draenei who only managed to cling to life after they found shamanism. Then there's the blood elves. Things worked out perfectly for them, huh? They'd still be the asshole arcane leeches they were if not for Velen restoring the sunwell and showing them the light again.

Melodramatic aliens and elves, nothing surprising. Both were addicted to light and, as you can see, withdrawal effects can be terrible.

[Scummer]

So let me quote a few parts from the story:

"This isn't real!" Sylvanas announced, her voice echoing in her head and sounding as it had when she had been alive. Were her people really so weak? No—no! Garrosh had all but murdered the best of her troops in his own wasteful campaigns. The Forsaken leadership had been gutted. That was what these visions showed.

Sylvanas did not move or shy away. "I was once like you, Garrosh," she answered, her voice quiet and steady, loud enough only for the warchief to hear. "Those who served me were tools. Arrows in my quiver." She reached up and slowly brought down her hood, then directed her dark gaze at him. Her eyes were alive, their oversized jet-black pupils livid with rage, red embers glowing deep within.

And at the end, indeed: "As the vision ended, Sylvanas found herself floating in a dark void, where she knew only terror, cold, hopelessness, fear, and regret."

She mainly comes back to safe her people from being destroyed.

Yes they were once "Arrows in the Quiver" - a weapon to kill.
Now they are her "Bulwark Against the Infinite" - a shield to keep her alive.
They are still a tool. A different tool though which is what she explains. But ofcourse why would she say this in front of her people (tool)?
However this doesn't change the fact that at no point in the story that she cares for her people (as a people).

Nowhere does it say that she comes back to save her people either. As you happily left out after your first quote she then claims that she cares nothing for them and accepts her afterlife, then is horrified by what it is. Nowhere does it say or is implied that she comes back to save her people. It is made clear that she comes back for herself alone.

[Maximus Testiculos]

So your basically telling us that if u were murdered, you wouldn't like a chance to be resurrected again to take revenge or to avenge your murdered beloved ones??? That's absurd.

Scourge were undead from day 1, they were risen by LK and Lady S did something good in order to give them free will and they became loyal to her...she freed them.

Lady S should take over the Horde and crush the alliance...

You are welcome.

Your point even makes it worse. Because the forsaken are the ones making the killing and raising. These new undead should be taking revenge on sylvanas if they have free will. Sylvanas did not save them from the control of the lich king like the first forsaken. She just hunts every human alive lordaeron.

[Dybia]

"Arrows in the Quiver" does not mean "a weapon to kill".
It's a saying that means one thing only: "resources that help you to achieve a goal"

So you are saying that they went from being "a resource to achieve a goal" to being "a resource to achieve a goal"?


Yes, just like she said her sister meant nothing to her..
"Screw this world and everybody" is a normal reaction if you just killed yourself.

More quotes to support she came back for her people:
It doesn't take a crystal ball to see Hellscream squandering the Horde's resources, tearing it apart in his lust for conquest." Sylvanas felt the old anger welling up again, but couldn't feel her body respond.

Anyway, the story literally says she doesn't want to leave because of the fear.
"But she didn't want to give her assent out of fear. She waited until she felt something more. A fellowship. A sisterhood. Sisters. Separate, they were all trapped. But together, they were free… and with them, she could postpone her fate."

lol, it says she doesn't want leave because of fear, but that last line makes quite clear she is leaving out of fear now that she's found a new way to hide from death like a coward by literally throwing all of these new sisters into her place in hell each time she dies.

[Dybia]

That makes it any better how Kangodo? That just means she knows it'll catch up to her eventually. Between Silverpine Forest and Andorhal we see she's brought in dozens more val'kyr. I don't think she's planning on dying as long as she can get more val'kyr to throw in her place in hell every time she dies. Especially with her reaction to the val'kyr reviving her again in Silverpine.

[Scummer]

"Arrows in the Quiver" does not mean "a weapon to kill".
It's a saying that means one thing only: "resources that help you to achieve a goal"

So you are saying that they went from being "a resource to achieve a goal" to being "a resource to achieve a goal"?

No I'm saying they are both resources (cause why would Sylvanas call them a people?) used to achieve her goal. The goal is simply different.

More quotes to support she came back for her people:
It doesn't take a crystal ball to see Hellscream squandering the Horde's resources, tearing it apart in his lust for conquest." Sylvanas felt the old anger welling up again, but couldn't feel her body respond.

It's worth noting that she doesn't refer to the Forsaken as a people but as a resource.

Most importantly several lines down in the same conversation - "She cared nothing for their fate. "Let them perish!" Sylvanas cried. "I am finished with them!""

However all of this for moot as it doesn't actually tell us anything about her wanting her people saved, just that she disliked Garrosh methods when using her "resources".

After that quote I fail to see how you even attempt to say that she came back for her people at all.

Anyway, the story literally says she doesn't want to leave because of the fear.
"But she didn't want to give her assent out of fear. She waited until she felt something more. A fellowship. A sisterhood. Sisters. Separate, they were all trapped. But together, they were free… and with them, she could postpone her fate."

Please note the last words of the sentence. Also you've missed out quoting the rest of it's context consisting of her practically shatting herself, she's making excuses for herself.
Everything in the story is showing her off as a selfish leader who doesn't care for her and only came back because of her fear of death and has to make excuses because of it.
You also miss off the first line "Sylvanas answered, but not right away. The lurking oblivion filled her with terror. Even now, she felt the tempest rage around her.". So no she didn't want to give into fear, but she damn well did. You can't tell me a character that had a character of steel who then winds up broken when she dies and see's her fate wouldn't make her decision based upon the fear of living in that torment.

[Unholyground]

She will become useful again once she is used in conjunction with the dark Ranger hero class to come out some day.

[Orby]

really liked Sylvanas Windrunner in Wc3 and probable one of Blizzards few characters that have still kept their identity in WoW :P