Somethings been bothering about these gun "ban" talks...

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Supreme Court disagrees with you.

I guess thats why the previous law banning "assault weapons" (A made up term) wasn't reissued. Also the fact that it didn't stop any type of violence at all....

[Deleted]

You don't need to ban to infringe upon the rights of someone to own a gun. Restricting the sale of certain guns because they look scary is in fact unconstitutional.

For the record, President Obama has voted for anti-gun laws many times as senator, and continues to be very anti-gun. Just saying.

Would you care to provide sources to back up this claim please? It's not that I don't believe you, but I would be interested to read the background as to why most "conservative" Americans seem to fear the President so much, bar outright racism.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

So I looked at that infographic, and I just kept saying in my head "okay, yup, okay" as I read the descriptions of accidents and parental negligence leading to child deaths. Not once did I even consider that "removing the guns" should be the answer to the stated reports.

Sure, it's sad when people die, but people die every day. I'm not going to get worked up over 1000 deaths in a month due to firearms. They listed 15 children dying, some due to negligence (2 year olds grabbing a gun off a table), some due to stupidity (Guy "fake shooting" his 12 year old cousin with this loaded shotgun), or crime (mother shooting her baby). How many of those other silhouettes were "man carjacked and shot in Detroit" or "woman raped and murdered in her apartment in St. Louis."

How many "child drown in a pool" needs to happen before we call for mandatory fencing, or just get rid of the pools because "we don't NEED them."

There is actually a study in Britain advocating long, pointed kitchen knives from being sold. Its just silly...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4581871.stm



---------- Post added 2013-01-17 at 09:07 AM ----------

Would you care to provide sources to back up this claim please? It's not that I don't believe you, but I would be interested to read the background as to why most "conservative" Americans seem to fear the President so much, bar outright racism.

http://www.thepoliticalguide.com/Pro...ond_Amendment/

[kouby]

The amount of stupidity around this topic is astounding, it's like some people need weapons to feel manly, the amazing thing is that this is 2013 and it still feels like the wild wild west sometimes.

[Deleted]

There is actually a study in Britain advocating long, pointed kitchen knives from being sold. Its just silly...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4581871.stm

The BBC article you linked regarding banning kitchen knives is from 2005, and I am still within my rights to cut up meat and vegetables in my own kitchen at this time. Panic over....

http://www.thepoliticalguide.com/Pro...ond_Amendment/

I have read that article, and whilst very interesting it doesn't really prove anything. It essentially says that since 1996, Barrack Obama has voted in favour of stricter gun control laws four times (I went out on a limb here by presuming "in favour of" meant he voted for it). That's four times in 17 years... The first three paragraphs of the article also kind of state that during his time in office he has done the exact opposite of what you all feared he would do, take your guns!

"President Obama has stated that he supports the second amendment. His record indicates that he is a strong supporter of reigning in firearms to prevent violence. This includes support for the assault weapons ban, support for international treaties to restrict firearms, and appointing Supreme Court Justices that are opposed to second amendment rights.

President Obama's time in office has seen a number of high profile shootings which have triggered calls from him to limit the availability of firearms. While he has advanced no specific legislation proposals, he has voiced support for.

On the flip side, while in office President has signed separeate pieces of legislaiton that expanded gun rights. These rights include the ability of citizens to carry firearms in national parks as long as they comply with state laws, and the ability of certain passengers to carry unloaded firearms in the luggage on Amtrak trains."

I have bolded the parts I see that contradict your view of the President. Did you read the whole article, or just the bits you wanted to read?

[Austilias]

Were I an American i'd just leave it at that.

[The Riddler]

The above ee card is priceless. Well done.

Also, here's yet another link for all you folks that keep saying, "No one is talking about 'banning' guns..."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/matthe...b_2474237.html

It would be more accurate for you to say, "I myself am not CURRENTLY talking about banning guns, but there are a lot of advocates and politicians who ARE talking about banning guns and I do not really disagree with what they have to say... And when they do get around to actually banning guns, I won't be disagreeing with them then either." That's what is really going on here.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

The BBC article you linked regarding banning kitchen knives is from 2005, and I am still within my rights to cut up meat and vegetables in my own kitchen at this time. Panic over....

Its just the fact that it was even suggested. Its just horrible, and very very very sad.

I have read that article, and whilst very interesting it doesn't really prove anything. It essentially says that since 1996, Barrack Obama has voted in favour of stricter gun control laws four times (I went out on a limb here by presuming "in favour of" meant he voted for it). That's four times in 17 years... The first three paragraphs of the article also kind of state that during his time in office he has done the exact opposite of what you all feared he would do, take your guns!

That is not the "opposite" since he has done anything at all in favor of guns.

"President Obama has stated that he supports the second amendment. His record indicates that he is a strong supporter of reigning in firearms to prevent violence. This includes support for the assault weapons ban, support for international treaties to restrict firearms, and appointing Supreme Court Justices that are opposed to second amendment rights.

President Obama's time in office has seen a number of high profile shootings which have triggered calls from him to limit the availability of firearms. While he has advanced no specific legislation proposals, he has voiced support for.

On the flip side, while in office President has signed separeate pieces of legislaiton that expanded gun rights. These rights include the ability of citizens to carry firearms in national parks as long as they comply with state laws, and the ability of certain passengers to carry unloaded firearms in the luggage on Amtrak trains."

I have bolded the parts I see that contradict your view of the President. Did you read the whole article, or just the bits you wanted to read?

No, saying you are in favor of guns, then turning around and voting against them does not mean it contradicts me, or makes him in favor of guns. Sorry, that is illogical. You seem to have left a lot out.

Early in the 2008 election, Senator Obama stated that he supported the DC gun ban. He stated that he believed that the Constitution confers an individual right to bear arms, but just because you have an individual right does not mean that the state or local government can’t constrain the exercise of that right

Senator Obama opposed the concealed carry laws which allow people to carry firearms while concealed.

n July of 1998, Obama supported the following goals on the State Legislative National Political Awareness test:

Ban the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic weapons.
Increase state restrictions on the purchase and possession of firearms.

While debating Mr. Alan Keyes during the Illinois Senate campaign in 2004, State Senator Obama described the fact that President Bush did not re-institute an assault weapons ban as a scandal.

Let's be honest. Mr. Keyes does not believe in common gun control measures like the assault weapons bill. Mr. Keyes does not believe in any limits from what I can tell with respect to the possession of guns, including assault weapons that have only one purpose, to kill people. I think it is a scandal that this president did not authorize a renewal of the assault weapons ban.

Again, Assault weapons=/=Assault Rifles.

Assault weapons are any rifle with a pistol grip, flash hider, or adjustable stocks. Which DO NOT make them more lethal.



I don't think you read the whole thing or watched the videos. Just because he said he supports the 2nd amendment a few times, doesn't mean his actions or other sayings countered himself. Especially since Obama often changes his mind about what he feels about big issues like Marriage Equality and Gun Control.

[Deleted]

The above ee card is priceless. Well done.

Also, here's yet another link for all you folks that keep saying, "No one is talking about 'banning' guns..."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/matthe...b_2474237.html

It would be more accurate for you to say, "I myself am not CURRENTLY talking about banning guns, but there are a lot of advocates and politicians who ARE talking about banning guns and I do not really disagree with what they have to say... And when they do get around to actually banning guns, I won't be disagreeing with them then either." That's what is really going on here.

I wasn't aware Hollywood actor Matthew Modine held much sway over how laws are created in the USA?

His last paragraph interested me as well:

"President Obama, Vice President Biden, senators and Congress, let's all work together to find a peaceful and civilized solution to gun problems plaguing our country."

Is that a call to ban guns? Did you even read the link you posted?

---------- Post added 2013-01-17 at 03:35 PM ----------

No, saying you are in favor of guns, then turning around and voting against them does not mean it contradicts me, or makes him in favor of guns. Sorry, that is illogical. You seem to have left a lot out.

Again, Assault weapons=/=Assault Rifles.

Assault weapons are any rifle with a pistol grip, flash hider, or adjustable stocks. Which DO NOT make them more lethal.

I don't think you read the whole thing or watched the videos. Just because he said he supports the 2nd amendment a few times, doesn't mean his actions or other sayings countered himself. Especially since Obama often changes his mind about what he feels about big issues like Marriage Equality and Gun Control.

What did I miss out? You seem to have linked the four examples of him advocating stricter gun laws that I said were in the article? What I did point out to you, is that what you are saying is hearsay. Since being in office, President Obama has voted on two laws regarding gun legislation with BOTH relaxing said laws. That is a fact that you seem to be missing when you state he hasn't done anything in favour of guns at all.

Edit - just noticed the comment regarding the "research" in to knives you linked us from eight years ago. How is it sad that we (the UK) as a country noticed a corrolation with long knives causing more damage to the human body than short, stubby knives when used in assaults. We then acted on this by doing further reseatch, which "may" have led to a ban. However, no ban was implemented from it, so again it is fear mongering of the purest kind. Obama (in his list of EO's posted elsewhere in this forum) is proposing research in to the causes of gun violence which is the right thing to do. Most pro-gun people in this forum agree that mental health issues are one of the main causes of mass shootings in the USA, so research in to this field is surely needed?

[The Riddler]

Is that a call to ban guns? Did you even read the link you posted?

"As a nation we cannot be shackled to an archaic Second Amendment which is being shielded by a minority of Americans that demand the right to use weapons that are continually killing citizens across our country... Over the decades, our Constitution has been updated and made more civilized and fair by way of amendments. It's time to let go of these weapons that cause such massive suffering to our population."

Did YOU? If you missed what he's saying, he is advocating that the 2nd amendment be changed to update his modern, more enlightened sensibilities. It's just a primitive, archaic throwback to the late 1700s back when we were killin' injuns, oppressin' slaves, slappin' around women, and making the chilluns work 80 hour weeks - by crackey. And (SOB!) didn't we change our constitution before because we realized just how awful we were being? Can't we all come together and peacefully get rid of the 2nd amendment just like we got rid of all those other uncivilized things?

What exactly do you think he's saying here? :boggle:

[Deleted]

"As a nation we cannot be shackled to an archaic Second Amendment which is being shielded by a minority of Americans that demand the right to use weapons that are continually killing citizens across our country... Over the decades, our Constitution has been updated and made more civilized and fair by way of amendments. It's time to let go of these weapons that cause such massive suffering to our population."

Did YOU? If you missed what he's saying, he is advocating that the 2nd amendment be changed to update his modern, more enlightened sensibilities. It's just a primitive, archaic throwback to the late 1700s back when we were killin' injuns, oppressin' slaves, slappin' around women, and making the chilluns work 80 hour weeks - by crackey. And (SOB!) didn't we change our constitution before because we realized just how awful we were being? Can't we all come together and peacefully get rid of the 2nd amendment just like we got rid of all those other uncivilized things?

What exactly do you think he's saying here? :boggle:

Regardless of what he is saying, until he is voted in as President of the USA, I don't think you can link his "opinion" as a concrete case towards the government moving towards banning all firearms.

What if Oprah Winfrey posts a blog regarding her views on removing the 21st ammendment? Would you sudenly think "Oh noez, those pesky democratz are going to take mah alcohol!"

[Kasierith]

Regardless of what he is saying, until he is voted in as President of the USA, I don't think you can link his "opinion" as a concrete case towards the government moving towards banning all firearms.

What if Oprah Winfrey posts a blog regarding her views on removing the 21st ammendment? Would you sudenly think "Oh noez, those pesky democratz are going to take mah alcohol!"

Obama has been an advocate of an assault weapons ban since before he took office in 2008. There are quite a few other politicians who think along those lines. Even if they do not represent the majority, and thus don't have a reasonable chance of getting it through a Republican congress, there is a significant political presence advocating the assault weapons ban.

Oh god... I'm in agreement with Riddler...

[Deleted]

Obama has been an advocate of an assault weapons ban since before he took office in 2008. There are quite a few other politicians who think along those lines. Even if they do not represent the majority, and thus don't have a reasonable chance of getting it through a Republican congress, there is a significant political presence advocating the assault weapons ban.

Oh god... I'm in agreement with Riddler...

The thing is, I haven't argued with this fact. Someone linked an article proving just that, that Obamo is anti-guns. I simply pointed out that since being in office he has actually relaxed two seperate gun laws and not brought any new restrictions in (his new list of EO's are not what I would call "restrictions").

He then posts a blog made by a fucking Hollywood actor as proof the government are lining up a bill banning all guns???

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

What did I miss out? You seem to have linked the four examples of him advocating stricter gun laws that I said were in the article? What I did point out to you, is that what you are saying is hearsay. Since being in office, President Obama has voted on two laws regarding gun legislation with BOTH relaxing said laws. That is a fact that you seem to be missing when you state he hasn't done anything in favour of guns at all.

Edit - just noticed the comment regarding the "research" in to knives you linked us from eight years ago. How is it sad that we (the UK) as a country noticed a corrolation with long knives causing more damage to the human body than short, stubby knives when used in assaults. We then acted on this by doing further reseatch, which "may" have led to a ban. However, no ban was implemented from it, so again it is fear mongering of the purest kind. Obama (in his list of EO's posted elsewhere in this forum) is proposing research in to the causes of gun violence which is the right thing to do. Most pro-gun people in this forum agree that mental health issues are one of the main causes of mass shootings in the USA, so research in to this field is surely needed?

I am not against research.

But AGAIN, he has said he is against guns more often than being in favor of guns. There are many quotes and even videos of this, so its not hearsay. I just don't think you have much of an argument here. I 100% feel that if h thought it was possible, he would try to ban guns. I believe the EO's are just a prelude to this. Thats what people are afraid of in the US. Obamas long track record against guns, and many democrats in office are much more out spoken about it. I believe the original woman who brought out the "assault weapons" ban from the 90's is still in office.

So he has voted for, and been in favor of MANY MORE BIG THINGS REGARDING GUN CONTROL. This easily eclipses letting people have guns in parks, sorry.


I'm not sure what you quotation marks around research. I find it sad that people actually think banning things from law abiding citizens will somehow stop crime, stop murders, or stop bad people. Some of the worst tragedies, at least in America have been carried out WITHOUT GUNS or "assault weapons." You can make bombs with common materials.

One of the leading causes of deaths for younger people are because of automobiles. Should be ban automobiles? Someone else mentioned pool related deaths. Should we ban pools? Or hammers? Hammers are involved in many deaths, moreso than "assault weapons" I believe I read.

[The Riddler]

Regardless of what he is saying...

However you want to look at it is fine. However, I do not want to hear anyone saying "No one is talking about banning guns" anymore because - yes - there ARE a lot of people talking about banning guns. As I've said before - for now (for now!) it is just a bunch of blowhards like Modine. These are celebrities, pundits like Piers Morgan, and so forth. However, there ARE politicians in places of power that are also not only advocating gun bans but they are moving on ENACTING them. In some cases they already have.

The point is that it is sophistry to say that "no one" is talking about banning guns when in fact there are a LOT of people that are both talking about it and DOING it. Dismissing the anti-gun-contol argument with a breezy, "Oh - you're just being paranoid... No one is REALLY talking about banning guns..." is total bullcrap.

[Deleted]

I am not against research.

But AGAIN, he has said he is against guns more often than being in favor of guns. There are many quotes and even videos of this, so its not hearsay. I just don't think you have much of an argument here. I 100% feel that if h thought it was possible, he would try to ban guns. I believe the EO's are just a prelude to this. Thats what people are afraid of in the US. Obamas long track record against guns, and many democrats in office are much more out spoken about it. I believe the original woman who brought out the "assault weapons" ban from the 90's is still in office.

So he has voted for, and been in favor of MANY MORE BIG THINGS REGARDING GUN CONTROL. This easily eclipses letting people have guns in parks, sorry.


I'm not sure what you quotation marks around research. I find it sad that people actually think banning things from law abiding citizens will somehow stop crime, stop murders, or stop bad people. Some of the worst tragedies, at least in America have been carried out WITHOUT GUNS or "assault weapons." You can make bombs with common materials.

One of the leading causes of deaths for younger people are because of automobiles. Should be ban automobiles? Someone else mentioned pool related deaths. Should we ban pools? Or hammers? Hammers are involved in many deaths, moreso than "assault weapons" I believe I read.

I agree, research is key here. My points on the fear that Obama will ban guns is just that, an unjustified fear with no evidence to support it. He has yet to do anything whilst President (over four years now) to suggest he will ban guns, and I have pointed out the fact that he has done the exact opposite of this which seems to be being missed. 17 years is a long time in politics, and I am not arguing that from research I have done, along with the article you provided he is not anti-gun - he is! However, I do believe it is fear mongering to say "HE WILL BAN OUR GUNS JUST YOU WAIT" going on four votes in 17 years. It just doesn't sit with me as enough, if that makes sense? The law prevents him from doing this, and I'm pretty sure he is aware of how much litteral shit it would cause in the USA if he even tried, despite his opinion. Maybe, because I am not America, I'm just naive about him from not dealing with his policies in day to day life?

One thing though, please do not bring in the circular argument regarding cars. Apples and oranges come to mind, and in my view his EO's actually move gun ownership closer to car ownership with regards to registration and training. Car accidents should never be compared to gun homicides in my view.

[Kryos]

Keep your archaic Second Amendment but only allow weapons available when it was written. Any weapon more modern than that should not be allowed.
If you don't get why this would be a solution. They only had Flintlock pistols and Flintlock Muskets at that time. Flintlock muskets were the mainstay of European armies between 1660 and 1840. A musket was a muzzle-loading smoothbore long gun that was loaded with a round lead ball, but it could also be loaded with shot for hunting. For military purposes, the weapon was loaded with ball, or a mixture of ball with several large shot (called buck and ball), and had an effective range of about 75 to 100 meters. Misfires were common. The flint had to be properly maintained, as a dull or poorly napped piece of flint would not make as much of a spark and would increase the misfire rate dramatically. Moisture was a problem, since moisture on the frizzen or damp powder would prevent the weapon from firing. This meant that flintlock weapons could not be used in rainy or damp weather.

That's the weapon they where talking about. They where allowing people to have this:

not that:

[ptwonline]

Riddler,

I'm amazed by the extremely low opinion that you have of American servicemen and servicewomen since you seem to think that they would be party to genocide of their fellow citizens.

[Deleted]

*snip*

You do realise that Hitler didn't disarm his country? This has been proven wrong more times than I care to remember. You may shout "5,000,000 Jews would argue with that" however it took Almost all of Western Europe, along with the USA AND Russia to defeat his army. What fucking chance would a standard Jewish man, woman or child with a gun stand against the Nazi's?

He actually repealed a law in 1938, that banned German citizens from owning weapons (dating back to the end of WWI), relaxed all laws regarding restrictions on German citizens buying weapons (reduced waiting period, reduce minimum age etc.) because it gave them a reason to vote him in. Once most of the population were armed, they were drafted in to the Nazi war machine and look how well that ended up. If you feel the need to post meme's atleast make sure they are factually accurate because otherwise you just look stupid.

So at least one of your pictures is so wrong, it is the exact opposite of what the un-educated person who made is trying to portray. I must surely trust every other picture on this basis as well!

[Deleted]

I think that assault rifles should be kept legal, but handguns be made illegal. I'd like to see you sneak an assault rifle into a busy nightclub, in baggy pants, while trying to look like you don't have a huge turd in your pants.