Why Do You Think European Countries Generally Dislike Immigrants?

[holyunholy]

You do realise that we are talking about often poor and undeveloped people from countries in Africa and the middle East right? Every country in Europe also wants the highly skilled immigrants. The problem is that the war refugees literally cross the mediteranian or to some islands in the mediteranian that are of European nations. It is a constant stream of immigrants comming in. I don't think anybody is going to Canada on a boat any time soon where Europe litterally doesn't know where to put the refugees anymore because we also don't want to drown them in the mediteranian by pushing the boat back into the sea.

That is not specified in the poll. It is about immigrants in general. And besides I read the whole thread and the attitudes are towards immigrants in general with no specific distinction made. If it was about refugees and assimilation, there would not be the sentiment of immigrants taking jobs etc etc.
Besides, it is the government that makes policies about refugees , asylum seekers etc. So the fault is more of government policy rather than refugees who have fled their homes and are in an alien culture without the relevant language and educational skills. Shouldn't the governments be more proactive in this regards ? If they are not, who is to blame , the immigrants the government, or the people who keep voting for them.

FYI The refugee policy in Canada is terrible too. It took like 15 years after a deportation order was issued to deport a Rwandan war criminal. But the government is now reforming the system at a rapid pace due to a general outcry amongst the public. Infact even EU countries like Hungary and the Czech republic need visas now due to them coming and claiming asylum

---------- Post added 2013-01-14 at 12:15 PM ----------

It's nice that Canada can cherrypick its immigrants. But you only have one border and thats with a first world nation.

In Europe (the EU and some countries specifically) you have the freedom of movement for workers. And that's all of the workers, mostly coming from poorer countries to the rich ones. People don't dislike the skilled workers.

Also alot of the immigrants are fugitives, the last big wave was in the 90s from the balkan countries.

Yes but those are the effects of government policy over decades. And people kept voting for parties with that same policy over the decades too. So simply castigating immigrants who are unable to adapt is very unfair.
Besides if you talk about assimilation, north american immigrants have little problem assimilating here compared to Europe (yes there are some extreme cases here too though)

[Deleted]

GAWD DAMN ROMANIAN GYPSIES STOLE MY BIKE!

jk, just some random gypsies from all over the world.

[Cybran]

Shouldn't the governments be more proactive in this regards ? If they are not, who is to blame , the immigrants the government, or the people who keep voting for them.

If governments/people try to be proactive people like Spectral or the OP jump at them and start calling the bigots and racists.

[holyunholy]

If governments/people try to be proactive people like Spectral or the OP jump at them and start calling the bigots and racists.

Or maybe the parties which espouse such policies happened to actually be racist themselves like the national front, bnp etc and their supporters are racist period.
It is very possible to reform immigration in a sensible non racist manner. It is not as black and white as some claim to be.

[zorkuus]

It is very possible to reform immigration in a sensible non racist manner. It is not as black and white as some claim to be.

Unfortunately many of the parties that have extremist views on immigration and the parties that are for very broad immigration both have a black and white view on this matter. The sensible middle ground has almost no representation in some countries, and when they do it usually gets hijacked by one of the aforementioned sides.

[Deleted]

Japans as fucked as the rest of the planet mate, cripplingly bad economy coupled with how difficult it is to get a job. Immigration would probably tip the balance in that country.

No, Japan is one of the worlds most successful economies. Third one, right after US and China i believe. If i remember it correctly, their economy declined after the 2011 earthquake and immigration would hardly help Japan's economy.

[Cybran]

Japans as fucked as the rest of the planet mate, cripplingly bad economy coupled with how difficult it is to get a job. Immigration would probably tip the balance in that country.

On what planet does immigration create more jobs?

[capitano666]

I believe it's mostly a problem when immigrants are from a less fortunate country, which means less wealthy and thus possibly more prone to criminality.

[Deleted]

I'm so shocked that yet another stereotype is wildly inaccurate.

jk i'm not

You are the biggest hypocrite ever, you're generalizing all Europeans, saying that we all hate immigrants, when you've got no idea of what it's actually like over here. Some countries are actually quite welcoming of immigrants, you can't generalize a whole continent just because of Anders-Breivik.

I saw your last thread on the Neo-Nazi stuff, and tbh, you're over-exaggerating the "Neo-Nazi problem" in Europe, the Neo-Nazi movement is TINY, and is mostly restricted to the poorer Eastern-bloc countries.
I could say that the Southern US States have a large KKK movement, however that would be just as inaccurate and ignorant as you saying that Europe has a large neo-nazi movement.


Texans don't hate immigrants? Yeah right, at least in Europe we didn't go round Lynching people.

[Urti]

Texans don't hate immigrants? Yeah right, at least in Europe we didn't go round Lynching people.

Yeah ya did. Maybe not lately, but you did.
Europe has had it's share of hateful violent periods just like everyone else.

[Prokne]

No, Japan is one of the worlds most successful economies. Third one, right after US and China i believe. If i remember it correctly, their economy declined after the 2011 earthquake and immigration would hardly help Japan's economy.

Japan has the 3rd highest GDP but recently their economy has gone nowhere. Their currency is inflating and they have a large dept problem. Thats why theyve had about 5 PMs in the last 4 years. IDK if immigration would help them but they do have negative population growth since they dont seem to have many kids.

[Cybran]

Japan has the 3rd highest GDP but recently their economy has gone nowhere. Their currency is inflating and they have a large dept problem. Thats why theyve had about 5 PMs in the last 4 years. IDK if immigration would help them but they do have negative population growth since they dont seem to have many kids.

In the 80s Japan tried to bring over 300 000 japanese people from Brazil. Their experiment failed horribly and many of the kids of the immigrants were unable to integrate. Some even truned to crime and in 2009 Japan offered to pay some to go back to Brazil. Does that sound familiar? Does that not tell you why they don't want immigrants?

[TheGravemind]

You are the biggest hypocrite ever, you're generalizing all Europeans, saying that we all hate immigrants, when you've got no idea of what it's actually like over here. Some countries are actually quite welcoming of immigrants, you can't generalize a whole continent just because of Anders-Breivik.

I saw your last thread on the Neo-Nazi stuff, and tbh, you're over-exaggerating the "Neo-Nazi problem" in Europe, the Neo-Nazi movement is TINY, and is mostly restricted to the poorer Eastern-bloc countries.
I could say that the Southern US States have a large KKK movement, however that would be just as inaccurate and ignorant as you saying that Europe has a large neo-nazi movement.


Texans don't hate immigrants? Yeah right, at least in Europe we didn't go round Lynching people.

Absolutely incorrect. Show me where I have allegedly said that "all Europeans hate immigrants" because I assure you that you will find no such thing since I have never said anything like that. I never generalize the opinion of entire populations like that ever.

Furthermore, you're underplaying the neo-Nazi problem in Europe.

Here's an article by Naomi Klein speaking to the rise of militant neo-Nazi groups in Europe:
http://www.redpepper.org.uk/Europe-s-far-right-rises/

The KKK has dwindled to number barely in the 50s across the entire United States. In addition to that, the KKK itself admits that it is no longer a militant organization. The KKK, in other words, has become a joke (not to say that it wasn't always a joke, because it has always been a joke and an inherently stupid movement.)

Texans do not hate immigrants and I think you're just trying to evoke an emotional response from me by implying that Texans go around lynching people. The fact and truth of the matter is that Europe is far from as immigrant-friendly as some place like the United States, and yes, even Texas. Facts are facts.

[Wikiy]

Here's an article by Naomi Klein speaking to the rise of militant neo-Nazi groups in Europe:
http://www.redpepper.org.uk/Europe-s-far-right-rises/

It's an opinion. From a non-European writer. It's worth very little.

The fact and truth of the matter is that Europe is far from as immigrant-friendly as some place like the United States, and yes, even Texas. Facts are facts.

Calling opinions facts doesn't make them facts. Revel in your opinion that the US is a special snowflake in this regard all you want, just don't expect people to take you seriously if you do that.

[Kraenen]

On what planet does immigration create more jobs?

on any planet, really. more customers, more production, more jobs. basic economics

[Deleted]

One big reason here in Finland is because some immigrants act like our culture should be changing to immigrants ways more than they should to ours. Nothing wrong in adapting new habits from other cultures, but i still think that those moving to a certain country should be the ones adapting more than the original residents. No matter what the country in question is or where are you moving from.

[artemishunter1]

on any planet, really. more customers, more production, more jobs. basic economics

Not quite. It will be depended on surplus population. If the country already has a surplus population but still less jobs, then immigrants going to make it worse. Country like Japan however needs population because its own population is aging, and they do not have enough young people.

---------- Post added 2013-01-14 at 05:30 PM ----------

One big reason here in Finland is because some immigrants act like our culture should be changing to immigrants ways more than they should to ours. Nothing wrong in adapting new habits from other cultures, but i still think that those moving to a certain country should be the ones adapting more than the original residents. No matter what the country in question is or where are you moving from.

In truth, culture always changes. There is no such thing as Finnish culture, even back in the past, culture borrowed stuff from other cultures and made them their own. Your culture changing is not something new, as your current culture is the result of blending to begin with. The only thing your people need to be careful about will be to take good stuff from the other culture, not the assholic things the other culture has.

[Deleted]

In truth, culture always changes. There is no such thing as Finnish culture, even back in the past, culture borrowed stuff from other cultures and made them their own. Your culture changing is not something new, as your current culture is the result of blending to begin with. The only thing your people need to be careful about will be to take good stuff from the other culture, not the assholic things the other culture has.

Yes, that's basically what i mean. I like different kind of people from all over the world, but i just can't stand the ones who go to a foreign country and are offended because people in that country don't know how to act according to the new comers rules and habits.

[Holofernes]

immigrants doesnt mean rich or educated people.

Immigrants in europe means analphabet poor victim of civil war, stemming from some hardcore islamic african or arabic country. Mostly criminal, illegal and tied to the mafia organization. They have to do work / crime / prostitution for the mafia, to pay back their fee. Those poor guys live to 10 th in one windowless room somewhere in a poor town quarter, and have to pay awesom rents to their houseowner / provider (which of course is the same mafie, or rocker gang, or what ever u call it). The little they earn they mostly send back to africa to their families, its like 20 Euros / month , which is huge there. (enough to keep a 20 people strong family fed)

Whole family clans are throwing their money to gett to get one of their strongest young male adults to europe (it costs 15-30 k euros to get one guy smuggled into schengen), so that he can live / work / mostly sell drugs here. Thats the sad truth. Nigerian immigrants are the worst ever. Of course, most get caught on the border, have no passport no money and nothing. So they tell " i am from african country xy where civilwar and genocide is happening and i want asyl" and he can stay and sell drugs in EU for at least 2 years. Those guys dont learn the language, many cant even write or read. They are slaves to their mafia.

That is what europeans refer to if u say "immigrants"

Political refugees (afghanis, iraquis, bosniens/ serbians / albanians) were and are all accepted and welcomed, although most of them get here illegal by smugglers. I spent 6 month as a soldier on a Schengen-Border, when iraq and afghanistan war were at its heights. The smugglers just drive them to the border, they cross it, and then sit down waiting for the soldiers to arrest them. Next day, they make asyl request, and smugglers take them from the asyl center, to their final destination, as slave workers / criminals.

Our team caught many of them, and all of them made their asylum inquiry, and after they got their initial money, the smugglers would take them from the asylum camp and spread them over whole europe. Black guys from nigeria were put into prison and send back to africa instantly.
Black guys who had no paper and said they were from liberia (civil war back then), would gladly get asylum, so everyone throw away his passport and was from liberia. Thats the way it works. Try sending a photo to liberian authorities and ask who this guy is, if his name and so on is true and correct. Askyourself, if u actually mange to get an answer, wheter the mafia / smugglers , havent bought a liberian authority member.

The poorest thing we ever caught, was a iraqui family, who was afraid like a boss from us soldiers. Those guys (father, uncle, 2 teenage sons and a 10 year old son) went from iraq to austrian / hungarian border on their own, and were nearly dying from starvation when we found them. they didnt even know what a banana was, and we had to show them how to eat it. One of the man was badly wounded in iraq war and had several splinters from bombs in his body.

10 years later, their 2 wifes and 3 other family members and the 5 men still live in austria, with prolonged asylum, they have learned german, are working / going to school and are grateful to be able to live here without beeing bombed every day. That is the kind of people asylum is invented for, and thats something nearly everyone agrees with.

For those black african scum out of nigeria, they should stay where they are.

[Killingifrit]

There is no such thing as Finnish culture.

Brilliant. So what countries do have a culture?