Assassination: The nitty gritty

[Squirl]

I have a problem with ShadowCraft and Ask Mr.Robot.
I switched to Juju 522/Renataki 522 from valor trinket and juju, just when I did that shadowcraft instantely showed me that I should reforge for haste instead of mastery. From 106% of mastery on raids I dropped down to around 86%. And tbh I felt my dps is lower than it should be...
Should I listen to shadowcraft and reforge to haste? Or should I listen to mrrobot and stay on mastery reforge?

There's extensive discussion on haste vs. mastery somewhere in this thread.

Summary: even in BiS, mastery is probably better than haste with real fight conditions and the RNG involved in RPPM mechanics. However, a ratio of haste to mastery is optimal on average for patchwerk fights. This is probably what ShC is trying to get you to do but you can't just press auto-reforge to get there because ep is not automatically adjusted. The difference is likely ~1% no matter how you reforge though.

There's an option to force mastery > haste in ShC now. Check the Advanced tab (and make sure you adjust expertise appropriately as well, otherwise it will default to .7 and uncap you). This is what I use.

[Deleted]

Thank you a lot Right now I'm struggling with my dps, shadowcraft makes me hold onto 2pc t14 because the bonus is so good. Even when I have head 496, shoulder 483. Prolly when I finish the legendary chain to get meta I will switch to 522 helmet [if I get one]. But even with 2 pieces of t15 - Shadowcraft still holds the t14 2pc is better. But it's imposible for me to get heroic t14 so what should I do with that?
My armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Kyouk/advanced
Logs from fight I joined: http://worldoflogs.com/guilds/265782/

[Deleted]

stay on mastery reforge

[Kael]

If you have questions about your specific rogue and not FAQ-styled questions that need answering, like how a rotational mechanic works, please start a new thread to ask. That'll keep this thread free of clutter - 13 pages is long, but 100+ pages is TOO long for people to read. Thanks!

-Mugajak

[Deleted]

Quick question: with the Mut > SnD > Mut > Rupture > Vendetta/ShB opener what do people do if you get a Dispatch proc after the first Muti?

Also, say you get no Relentless Strikes procs and no Blindside procs, you are sitting at <50 energy after the Rupture, do you pool before using cooldowns or is that a dps loss?

[Deleted]

You shouldn't cast Mut if you have dispatch proc. It's because the second muti can proc it too which would mean one wasted Dispatch.

About second question - I'm using the Mut>Snd>SB>Mut>Rup>Vend opener, with that even if I'm unlucky with procs - rupture is long enough to use all Mutiliates/Envenoms in SB without reapplying Rupture. With your opener I'm not sure you should pool because you can end up with situation when you need to reapply the rupture while still having SB buff. Less Mut/Env on SB = Less DPS.

[kilj]

Intersting, My opener atm is Mut > rupture > expose armory(only one who can apply the -armor buff) snd > Macro(sb+gloves+Vendetta) and start my rotation, has achieved 470k+ consistenly and up to 540k on perfect procs. Mind you im not using any heroic gear.

[Sonnillon]

Can anyone please give me advice what kind of CDs/skills/buff should be tracked? Or just add everything with duration either on yourself or target to my tellmewhen?

[Kael]

Can anyone please give me advice what kind of CDs/skills/buff should be tracked? Or just add everything with duration either on yourself or target to my tellmewhen?

Short of dancing steel or Capacitance, everything is worthwhile. If you're not at the point of min-maxing proc durations, you could skip out on trinkets as well, which will lower your envenom damage slightly but won't kill you. (SnD just incase) rupture, envenom, energy check, CP, anticipation, vendetta, shadow-blades, TW, potion are the major watching points because you're more likely to change play based on them. Like trinkets, if you're not min-maxing yet, you don't reeeally need to track vendetta/potion. Or lust/hero/TW for that matter.

[mongoose6]

I find that I don't even worry about trinket procs untill sub 37%. I use weak aura's to track everything and set them up not to display ICD's and trinket procs until the boss is at 37%. This gives me a heads up as to when i'm about to hit execute phase and provides me the info I need in order to sync up my final Vend/SB/Pot usage with a possible trinket proc. Not really 100% maximizing my trinket contributions, but its there when it counts the most. (I do 37% instead of 35% to give me a little time to anticipate). Other than the abilities Mugajak mentioned above, I like to keep a health bar front and center just for my own awareness.

[FluFF]

I got a question , Shadowcraft constantly has me reforging out of expertise ( atm 5.57% in ilvl 484 )

I read that expertise capping is only worthwhile in high ilvl ( 505+ ) , but im wondering does shadowcraft makes that switch automatically , or do you have to edit the MH/OH exp values in order to make Shadowcraft ever exp cap you?

( and if so , what number do you need for the Custom Stat Weights of Mainhand / Offhand expertise ? )

[Kael]

I read that expertise capping is only worthwhile in high ilvl ( 505+ ) , but im wondering does shadowcraft makes that switch automatically , or do you have to edit the MH/OH exp values in order to make Shadowcraft ever exp cap you?

Stats are recalculated by ShC after every reforging/regemming/or other change. It doesn't recalc in the middle of a reforging pass, but the stats showing on the left are the weights it uses for your next reforging/regemming, and for your current stats, are generally accurate. More importantly than stat weights shifting a small amount, expertise is really difficult NOT to cap in heroic gear. Grab a 2/2 Heroic TF Renataki's... and you've got a TON of expertise before any other gear pieces are included (1133 AFTER reforging out).

[mongoose6]

Stats are recalculated by ShC after every reforging/regemming/or other change. It doesn't recalc in the middle of a reforging pass, but the stats showing on the left are the weights it uses for your next reforging/regemming, and for your current stats, are generally accurate. More importantly than stat weights shifting a small amount, expertise is really difficult NOT to cap in heroic gear. Grab a 2/2 Heroic TF Renataki's... and you've got a TON of expertise before any other gear pieces are included (1133 AFTER reforging out).

This is a problem that I sincerely hope is addressed in the next patch. Even without heroic RSC, I'm swimming in hit/expertise. At least there is SOME benefit to overcapping hit, but there is really none to overcapping exp.

[Deleted]

Intersting, My opener atm is Mut > rupture > expose armory(only one who can apply the -armor buff) snd > Macro(sb+gloves+Vendetta) and start my rotation, has achieved 470k+ consistenly and up to 540k on perfect procs. Mind you im not using any heroic gear.

Why would you macro shadow blades and vendetta, one 2 min cd and one 3 min, doesn't make much sense tbh

[Muzz]

Why would you macro shadow blades and vendetta, one 2 min cd and one 3 min, doesn't make much sense tbh

I do it so that I only have to press one button to use a CD (be it shadow blades or vendetta) instead of two in the middle of a fight. Once one of the abilities is on cooldown the macro will just use the one not on cooldown.

[Psychowolf]

Macroing Shadow Blades and Vendetta together potentially loses a GCD in Shadow Blades because Vendetta is on the GCD. You want to activate Vendetta, then wait until GCD is about to end then activate Shadow Blades so you can get maximum ability usage during Shadow Blades.

[Macor]

Intersting, My opener atm is Mut > rupture > expose armory(only one who can apply the -armor buff) snd > Macro(sb+gloves+Vendetta) and start my rotation, has achieved 470k+ consistenly and up to 540k on perfect procs. Mind you im not using any heroic gear.

would love to see your logs.
note: raiding on rogue past few months and not updated sig

[Squirl]

would love to see your logs.
note: raiding on rogue past few months and not updated sig

Here are his logs. There aren't many. They may have a different WoL "guild" where most of their logs are posted.

Something seems off though. He's at just under 600k DPS instantly on a few pulls (but it drops to <200k after ~5s). I don't know how to open with a 600k hit. The log browser offers no insight.

[Deleted]

470k is not much as peak burst, nor does it give any relevant insight into whether that opener is preferable to other openers. The truth is that over the course of any encounter, the impact of different openers is so negligible that it can only be discussed on the basis of thousands of iterations of simulation. For more info, I encourage you to check http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...8#post20969098.

[Deleted]

Could you please add something to the OP about haste and mastery? I know it's not always clear and needs to be simmed, but surely you can have a general rule like "if you have X RPPM items, haste has the potential for higher DPS".