Horsemeat in Tesco "beef" burgers

[semaphore]

The outrage is more over horses being eaten than health.

Sorry but I don't see a connection between health hazard and horsemeat. The actual quality of the product healthwise is kept in check in the origin country, we're not talking imported meat from a dodgy factory from a third world country after all.

The health concern comes from them not knowing what 29% of the meat even is.

[Robozerim]

Well, I think eating horse isn't necessarily that bad, however I don't want to find out that I'm eating horse meat when I'm eating what is supposed to be a beef burger. I'd probably avoid the brand/company for being deceptive in labelling but that's about it.

[Kurioxan]

Well, I think eating horse isn't necessarily that bad, however I don't want to find out that I'm eating horse meat when I'm eating what is supposed to be a beef burger. I'd probably avoid the brand/company for being deceptive in labelling but that's about it.

Indeed...

Never had horse to be fairly honest, would imagine it to be quite low fat and hard, taste similiar to game?

What i dont get is, is there that much horse meat available around to start using it as a filler? O_o
Or maybe old horses who were near life limit? horses are expencive, cant imagine breeding them for meat instead of sales.

[phenix]

Gheld, food industry logistics, here:
I'm getting sick of hearing this same bullshit line over and over again.

The mcrib is made from the pork protein obtained by 'washing' the protein from the heart, stomach and intestines.

do i care? no
do i eat it? no
do i care if you eat it? no

all im saying is dont be a hypocrite (not to anyone in particular). dont say you dont want to eat stuff like that then turn around and pretend your fast food is made from premium cuts.


****

[Kurioxan]

The mcrib is made from the pork protein obtained by 'washing' the protein from the heart, stomach and intestines.

That sounds quite nasty

[Deleted]

I actually went shopping over the weekend and bought some of Iceland's own burgers. I took them back for a refund and was refused because, and I quote, "there is nothing wrong with eating horse."

Also, related joke:

Went to the fridge to check my burgers, aaaaannndddd they're off!

[Gheld]

The mcrib is made from the pork protein obtained by 'washing' the protein from the heart, stomach and intestines.

do i care? no
do i eat it? no
do i care if you eat it? no

all im saying is dont be a hypocrite (not to anyone in particular). dont say you dont want to eat stuff like that then turn around and pretend your fast food is made from premium cuts.


****

Honestly, everyone knows what ground beef is though. It's just a way of making less palatable beef cuts a little more palatable. I see nothing in particular wrong with it either. When you put it on a bun with a slice of cheese and some onions it's pretty effin delicious actually.

But what I'm saying is, as an insider in that industry, I can assure you, before they are cooked, the beef patties at McDonalds are identical in quality to frozen beef patties you might buy at the local supermarket (even though a lot of people seem to state otherwise as though it were a fact). The way they cook them is what makes them a lot less appetizing than a hamburger that comes off the ole' barbecue.

And there's plenty of other applications for those "rib style pork meat" patties other than the McRib, they are still mass produced to this day. McDonalds likely only offers the McRib on occasion because of the fact that for every formed rib style pork meat patty that is produced there are about a million ground beef patties produced (which makes beef WAY cheaper, ground beef is essentially the cheapest meat available in North America when purchased in bulk).

I don't care for them much either because they are the pork version of ground beef essentially. I'm not sure I would entirely believe that story though. In most of the civilized world, it's only legal to feed humans meat of Grade 'A' or higher. Grade B and lower is what's used in pet foods. So also don't be drawn in by the tag line "Grade A meat" (because Grade A meat is actually a broad quality category that begins with the lowest quality meat that is deemed legally fit for human consumption).

But like I said, anything you can buy at McDonalds you can get the constituents of at your local supermarket. My gripe is with fake origin stories about foods when I actually work in the industry and know exactly where they come from.

1. The franchiser of a particular region will actually arrange a large procurement order with a local meat producer (usually that is located near the center of that franchise area). So the beef is actually different from region to region.

2. They will then arrange a huge multi-million dollar contract with a third party distribution center/warehouse, whereby the distribution center buys the procured product from the producer, and then sells it to the stores in the franchise for a small profit.

3. The stores within the franchise area order the product as needed and then DC ships it to them. In a very large urban center, (usually when the metro population exceeds 2 or 3 million) it's sometimes profitable for the company to run their own fleet, but in more sparsely populated regions the DC will either ship it themselves, or it will be sent by a third party LTL (Less Than full Load) transportation company.

But most fast food corporations do not make their own boxes, raw food, etc. It's actually more profitable for a particular company to focus on doing a single task as efficiently as possible rather than owning multiple interests. So the boxes and bags at McDonalds are usually printed by local print shops. Produce is also local, if you live in California. Otherwise nearly all fast food tomatoes and lettuce in North America come from California. The fries are also made by the nearest french fry manufacturer. Almost every restaurant in North America has McCain fries (just fyi). So look at the nearest McCain french fry facility on your map, that's where your fries probably come from when you go to any restaurant, fast food or otherwise.

McDonalds doesn't actually make food, they prepare food (poorly). So if you suspect your Big Mac contains asses and tongues, then you better not buy any beef from within a 500 mile radius, because it'll be the same crap. Although as we started, ground beef is made of crappy meat, it's just a gimmicky way of making crappy beef taste better by providing a more porous structure for seasoning and melted processed cheese to bind to.

But what all this also means, is that local big name restaurants, are actually all around good for the local economy, and create lots of jobs all over the local job market. So despite all the bad rap that big companies get, the restaurants at least do create a ton of local jobs outside of the restaurant.

And that's why McDonalds on the corporate level is so damn smug all the time.

But to bring all of this back to the OT: If there's horse in the supermarket hamburgers, there might also be horse in the hamburgers at some local restaurants.

EDIT: But seriously, if anybody has any questions about the logistics of food, I'll be glad to try and answer from my own scope of experience, I don't know everything, but I know quite a bit.

[hulkgor]

No problem whatsoever with eating horse.... however, purchasing what i 'thought' was a beef burger and having 29% horse meat in it would be unacceptable.

[Tribunal]

What is currently horse meat (unwanted and discarded work or leisure horses, often ill, who end up slaughtered) isn't usually safe for consumption. Bute (Phenylbutazone) is one of the most common drugs used in horses (common enough that most horse owners keep some on-hand since it's not very regulated due to low abuse potential) and it's absolutely unsafe for use or ingestion in humans, even in low levels. It's banned in horses 'intended' for meat.

That's part of the concern. That and the fact that proper labeling and tracking of meat is part of what helps to keep it safe... if we know one lot is contaminated, we can trace it and pull it. Can't do that if we don't know the lot (or even the source animal!) is in the product.

Some people also have a moral objection to eating something that they consider more of a 'pet' animal. It's not completely an argument against selling it (others don't care), but it is absolutely an argument against selling it unlabeled and undisclosed.

Horses are not current meat animals (outside of fairly niche situations) for a variety of reasons. I would be fine with horse meat (though I personally wouldn't buy it) if they were raised properly and for that purpose. However, that makes very little sense to do, especially en-masse, since horses are less tasty, less suited (don't carry excess weight as well), more expensive, and more complicated than cows are. Why bother?

[Gheld]

What is currently horse meat isn't usually safe for consumption. Bute (Phenylbutazone) is one of the most common drugs used in horses (common enough that most horse owners keep some on-hand since it's not very regulated due to low abuse potential) and it's absolutely unsafe for use or ingestion in humans, even in low levels. It's banned in horses 'intended' for meat.

That's part of the concern. That and the fact that proper labeling and tracking of meat is part of what helps to keep it safe... if we know one lot is contaminated, we can trace it and pull it. Can't do that if we don't know the lot (or even the source animal!) is in the product.

Some people also have a moral objection to eating something that they consider more of a 'pet' animal. It's not completely an argument against selling it (others don't care), but it is absolutely an argument against selling it unlabeled and undisclosed.

Horses are not current meat animals (outside of fairly niche situations) for a variety of reasons. I would be fine with horse meat (though I personally wouldn't buy it) if they were raised properly and for that purpose. However, that makes very little sense to do, especially en-masse, since horses are less tasty, less suited (don't carry excess weight as well), more expensive, and more complicated than cows are. Why bother?

If somebody handed me some meat and was like "Here, try some smoked horse meat" or something I'd probably try it. Even though I'm not completely keen on the idea of eating affinity animals.

But yeah, that's what baffles me about this whole story, is the gigantic lapse in oversight that would be required for mysteriously and unexpectedly finding up to 29% horse meat in hamburger patties at a local supermarket.

If I had to render a guess (pun intended), the producer of the product is illegally cutting the meat with grade b meat that is meant for pet food manufacturing. Some pet foods contain "Animal byproduct" (or sometimes just "Meat byproduct" which could legally identify pretty much any product rendered from any part of any animal that could be deemed safe for consumption. That would explain the sporadic levels of horse meat found (between trace and 29%). Some ranches will likely have their horses rendered after they die.

So there will be random levels of horse meat in any particular biopsy of "animal byproduct". The disturbing part is that there might also be meat from other rendered species in the hamburgers if I'm right, but they only tested for horse. But if the local newspapers there read MMO-C, HEY, TEST THE BEEF FOR DOG AND CAT DNA TOO!

So my official guess for the outcome of the investigation: Beef is being cut with dog food.

EDIT: Also, please don't feed your pets anything that has the words "meat byproduct" or "animal byproduct" on the label. You could actually be forcing cannibalism upon them.

[phenix]

I don't care for them much either because they are the pork version of ground beef essentially. I'm not sure I would entirely believe that story though. In most of the civilized world, it's only legal to feed humans meat of Grade 'A' or higher. Grade B and lower is what's used in pet foods. So also don't be drawn in by the tag line "Grade A meat" (because Grade A meat is actually a broad quality category that begins with the lowest quality meat that is deemed legally fit for human consumption).

Anyways like i said ppl can eat whatever they want and they hopefully understand that a '100% beef (random name)' label isnt a ingredients list but a trademarked name. Read the ingredients list and push your local gov for better labelling laws.


That being said, the mcrib is 70 ingredients (34 in the bun...lol wtf) and available all year long (but recommended to keep rare for marketing reasons)

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/11-ama...170212930.html

[Deleted]

I guess thats what happened to shergar LOL (doubt many people will get that joke)

!

my mother had to explain that one to me earlier lol

---------- Post added 2013-01-18 at 05:44 PM ----------

I actually went shopping over the weekend and bought some of Iceland's own burgers. I took them back for a refund and was refused because, and I quote, "there is nothing wrong with eating horse."

Also, related joke:

Went to the fridge to check my burgers, aaaaannndddd they're off!

facebook has been filled with horsse jokes

soemone showed me one with a horse photoshopped on the self service thing, made me chuckle.

[Zorgen]

Horse is actually a much leaner source of protein than beef, I eat it all the time. That being said.. if your buying beef it should be beef and not another animal.

[Deleted]

In my opinion, the fact that they found PIG DNA in it is alot worse than finding horse DNA. Reasons should be obvious. (I hope)
I, personally, wouldnt cause an uproar for horse meat, but I would for pig meat in a beef burger I have eaten.

[Gheld]

Anyways like i said ppl can eat whatever they want and they hopefully understand that a '100% beef (random name)' label isnt a ingredients list but a trademarked name. Read the ingredients list and push your local gov for better labelling laws.


That being said, the mcrib is 70 ingredients (34 in the bun...lol wtf) and available all year long (but recommended to keep rare for marketing reasons)

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/11-ama...170212930.html

See you're moving into territory of bollocks that I can instantly dismiss.

I WORK IN FOOD INDUSTRY LOGISTICS.

THERE IS NO SUCH BRAND LABEL AS "100% BEEF" IF THE LABEL SAYS 100% BEEF IT'S 100% BEEF.

Restaurants don't manufacture their own raw food ingredients, because that would be inefficient and expensive.

The difference in quality with fast food is because of how the food is prepared, not because of the food itself.

[Kuntantee]

disgusting...

[flavie]

as i ride horse myself, i find the idea of eating horsemeat simply weird. I'm not about to eat dog or cats eitehr for that matter, or any kind of animal i feel i could have some sort of bond with.

Many ppl say i'm very wierd cuz of that, but that's just the way it is. So for ppl like me, finding out there is secretely horsemeat in a burger would be really upsetting

[Djuntas]

Well, people buy beef burgers to eat beef, really. I don't expect to find a bobcat in my sock drawer, nor do I expect horse in my beef burger.

Excatcly this. Cant belive such thing can go on, but hey - More reason to avoid junk food places.

[phenix]

THERE IS NO SUCH BRAND LABEL AS "100% BEEF" IF THE LABEL SAYS 100% BEEF IT'S 100% BEEF.

http://consumerist.com/2008/09/21/vi...th-sheep-pigs/

http://imgur.com/gallery/EZDBM

[TJ]

I've been eating Tesco burgers for a while now, I don't care at all. Tastes good so 'sall good mayne.