The Serpent’s Accord: A Mistweaver PvE Guide [5.4]

[Deleted]

What levels of spirit are you guys running with the legendary meta?

I tried 9.2k and it was too much with 1 Resto Shaman, down to 8.4k now. I'm sitting at 24.21% crit unbuffed, which I think is good. Might lower it in favour of more spellpower (31k unbuffed) though.

Thoughts on this?

[Tatuin]

I have 6.6k spirit and no rshammy and sometimes it feels to much for me. My crit is under 20% unbuffed since i been unlucky wiht haste on gear and i go for the 12th tick on ReM. My SP is around 34k i think

[Nomjeremy]

Tatuin , Do you have the legendary meta and maybe the Horridon trinket. I would think those are almost mandatory before dropping so much spirit. I know I have trouble maintaining the necessary amount of chi generation through soothing mist when under 9k spirit and lacking the above mentioned items.
(25man 3h/13 and 517ilevel)

[Deleted]

What levels of spirit are you guys running with the legendary meta?

I tried 9.2k and it was too much with 1 Resto Shaman, down to 8.4k now. I'm sitting at 24.21% crit unbuffed, which I think is good. Might lower it in favour of more spellpower (31k unbuffed) though.

Thoughts on this?

5.7k, still need lower

[Deleted]

5.7k, still need lower

Alas, I am without the HC Horridon trinket.

How much "more" mp/5 can it produce than the HC 2/2 Spirits of the Sun?

[Deleted]

1401 int + 896 MP5 vs. 1657 int + 1.4k Mp5

[Krazyito]

A few days ago I obtained the T15 2-piece set bonus (LFR version, mind you) and to my knowledge this means that I should be going for the 6141 haste plateau. The problem is that in order to reach this amount I actually need to use pure haste gems and sacrifise a lot of crit/spirit. Now my question to you guys is whether or not this is worth it. Should wait until I obtain a bit more ToT gear and I'm able to reach it without gems?

Here's my armory for reference:
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Boem/advanced

Thanks in advance!

I see you went ahead and got the breakpoint, according to your armoy. The stats look fine, as long as you are comfortable with that amount of spirit.

---------- Post added 2013-04-21 at 05:26 PM ----------

5.7k, still need lower

Damn. I must be doing something wrong then. If I go below 10k I start starving for mana. Is it my gear?

[Deleted]

Definitely shouldn't be happening with the legendary, you could drop down to 8k at least with it and be fine I reckon

[Krazyito]

Definitely shouldn't be happening with the legendary, you could drop down to 8k at least with it and be fine I reckon

I'm going to compare some of your logs with mine and see if I'm playing incorrectly then..

---------- Post added 2013-04-21 at 06:25 PM ----------

I think I figured it out. Your DPS are better than my DPS. So the fights are shorter, thus you not needing as much spirit.

[Deleted]

Doubtful, the only fight I've not been mana positive on so far is Iron Qon which requires an exorbitant amount of SCK spam, fistweaving, and Chi Torpedo isn't easily usable. Even then, I finished tonight at around 40% mana after 10 minutes, and iirc I also had about 4 mana tea stacks. Are you in melee to take advantage of jab during meta procs?

---------- Post added 2013-04-22 at 01:11 AM ----------

Something I just thought of, I don't use glyph of mana tea that much anymore as I find it a lot more beneficial to use downtime to chug. Glyph of MT is actually quite a large loss of net MP5, I set the model to my kill of Qon tonight and changing to GoMT would have meant 700 net mp5 less.

[Krazyito]

Doubtful, the only fight I've not been mana positive on so far is Iron Qon which requires an exorbitant amount of SCK spam, fistweaving, and Chi Torpedo isn't easily usable. Even then, I finished tonight at around 40% mana after 10 minutes, and iirc I also had about 4 mana tea stacks. Are you in melee to take advantage of jab during meta procs?

---------- Post added 2013-04-22 at 01:11 AM ----------

Something I just thought of, I don't use glyph of mana tea that much anymore as I find it a lot more beneficial to use downtime to chug. Glyph of MT is actually quite a large loss of net MP5, I set the model to my kill of Qon tonight and changing to GoMT would have meant 700 net mp5 less.

I just recently got the meta this week and the only fights I've had a chance to use it on is heroic Jin'rohk and Heroic Horridon (current progression). This week I started meleeing Horridon for pretty much the entirety of the fight until the 4th~ door (when I get the Pink Dino). Then I'm just doing normal healing until Jalak phase where I start doing a little bit more meleeing. Though, I haven't had mana problems doing this method. I suppose i was more referring before I got the meta gem and not meleeing Horridon.

I think I just haven't had enough time to practice with it. I do try to stay in melee for most other fights.

Unfortunately, I probably won't be able to try it out on the other bosses since I have a big presentation in about 2 weeks and I have to work with the other members of my team to finish it off. I'll mess with spirit levels the next time I get a chance.

As for mana tea glyph, I was thinking of the same thing and use it during Hymn of Hope or something, but I felt like it was going to take an enormous amount of willpower to not push that button every 10 seconds.

[womd]

[/COLOR]Something I just thought of, I don't use glyph of mana tea that much anymore as I find it a lot more beneficial to use downtime to chug. Glyph of MT is actually quite a large loss of net MP5, I set the model to my kill of Qon tonight and changing to GoMT would have meant 700 net mp5 less.

i'm genuinely curious as to how its a mana loss? i always thought because you were consuming 2 in 1 gcd it saves time? also not sure if i could break the habit of drinking every 10 seconds o.o

[Chuupag]

Yea I tried it awhile back, we have 2 priests so plenty of hymns, and it just sorta broke my flow too much. Yes it was quite a bit of extra mana to line up 4-5 seconds of chugging with hymn but the mana was almost always in excess anyways.

[Deleted]

i'm genuinely curious as to how its a mana loss? i always thought because you were consuming 2 in 1 gcd it saves time? also not sure if i could break the habit of drinking every 10 seconds o.o

The result being you spend half the time you would have been spending chugging tea spending mana. You could of course also stand still as well, but then that begs the question of why you have the glyph anyway.

[Totaltotemic]

The result being you spend half the time you would have been spending chugging tea spending mana. You could of course also stand still as well, but then that begs the question of why you have the glyph anyway.

Wat.

Forcing a channel so that you can't cast or move is superior to using it instantly because you'll magically use more mana? You choose to use more mana or not, that free time and the ability to cast is a benefit of the glyph, having to work it in every 10 seconds is the cost. There is no automatic extra mana usage from using the glyph, just like you wouldn't call a Silence effect a mana gain you shouldn't call the glyph an mp5 loss.

[Deleted]

To be perfectly clear and in agreement, the two benefits the glyph gives you are time and mobility. The former only being useful if you do something with it, which always implies cost and is a clear cut longevity for output trade off. If you don't use the time, you're left with a glyph which is doing two things. First and foremost, it prevents long term caching and requires constant maintenance even during burst damage, lowering healing when it matters and providing no real benefit during downtime. It's other effect is often looked over, which is destroying your ability to recover extremely quickly from death.

At the end of the day though, it's really a preference thing. I prefer the extra longevity and ability to be at a reasonable amount of mana seconds after being ressed.

p.s. Would "equivalent of a ~600 mp5 loss" be better phrasing?

[Totaltotemic]

To be perfectly clear and in agreement, the two benefits the glyph gives you are time and mobility. The former only being useful if you do something with it, which always implies cost and is a clear cut longevity for output trade off. If you don't use the time, you're left with a glyph which is doing two things. First and foremost, it prevents long term caching and requires constant maintenance even during burst damage, lowering healing when it matters and providing no real benefit during downtime. It's other effect is often looked over, which is destroying your ability to recover extremely quickly from death.

At the end of the day though, it's really a preference thing. I prefer the extra longevity and ability to be at a reasonable amount of mana seconds after being ressed.

p.s. Would "equivalent of a ~600 mp5 loss" be better phrasing?

Preventing long-term caching isn't an mp5 loss unless you hit 20 stacks of Mana Tea or end a fight with an unusual amount of stacks. Even if you do nothing with the time, you have not failed to gain mana.

[TheTrueM4gg0t]

Sorry thats just still not the way to think about it. As you say the MT gives you more time, but that time can still be used to do stand around and do nothing. Its not per se a mana loss. It gives you more opportunity to do something usefull.
And no, you dont lose time when its most valuable, just dont chug a tea during high dmg phases. You will still be able to use it enough otherwise to get rid of your stacks.

I know not glyphing it results in more longvitiy indirectly, but not in a good way.
Would you use a skill, that puts you to sleep for 1min infight, just to have 1min more longvity?
You are just adding dead time, thats in no way usefull.

Its really only usefull when you have periods of low healing requirements, or as you said after a death.
I dont assume I die, cause when that happens while 2 healing a new 10h fight its a wipe anyway.
It probably is more usefull in 25m, where channeling Manatea doesnt knock out half of the healers...

[Deleted]

Preventing long-term caching isn't an mp5 loss unless you hit 20 stacks of Mana Tea or end a fight with an unusual amount of stacks. Even if you do nothing with the time, you have not failed to gain mana.

What makes the glyph an effective loss of longevity is when you utilize the time it gives, resulting in an output boost but longevity loss, otherwise as I said there's pretty much no benefit. The reason for this is because it prevents long term caching even if you don't use the time it gives, because you constantly need to maintain it for a healthy mana pool, even through phases of high damage which results in a loss of healing when you actually want it.

---------- Post added 2013-04-22 at 09:02 AM ----------

Sorry thats just still not the way to think about it. As you say the MT gives you more time, but that time can still be used to do stand around and do nothing. Its not per se a mana loss. It gives you more opportunity to do something usefull.

If you do this why would you glyph it in the first place apart from a slight gain in mobility? It doesn't give you more opportunity, mana tea unglyphed and glyph have the same minimum execution time. If you press mana tea and 1 second later a tank needs life cocoon, with or without the glyph you're going to get that cast off.

And no, you dont lose time when its most valuable, just dont chug a tea during high dmg phases. You will still be able to use it enough otherwise to get rid of your stacks.

This would imply you're restricting use to low damage phases, which is exactly the same behavior unglyphed has. Meaning you're doing either one of two things, standing around an extra second or using that second for a minimal output gain in a low damage situation.

I know not glyphing it results in more longvitiy indirectly, but not in a good way.

It's a direct loss in longevity to glyph it, as in the time the glyph gives being used is what's going to cause your longevity to suffer.

Would you use a skill, that puts you to sleep for 1min infight, just to have 1min more longvity?
You are just adding dead time, thats in no way usefull.

If I was having mana issues and I knew I could time those extra 30 seconds to coincide with periods of low damage where my actions are of little consequence, aka most fights this tier, yes.

Its really only usefull when you have periods of low healing requirements, or as you said after a death.
I dont assume I die, cause when that happens while 2 healing a new 10h fight its a wipe anyway.
It probably is more usefull in 25m, where channeling Manatea doesnt knock out half of the healers...

The only fights the glyph is useful on are fights where 300/345k mana won't last you through a large damage phase, there's only one fight I can think of this tier that has that and it's Tortos heroic because of the constant raid damage. I still even have a top 10 output rank on that with the glyph, which brings me back to my original point, it's close enough to be down to preference but utilizing unglyphed mana tea will help you with your mana woes should you have any and also allows a lot more freedom in terms of being able to plan ahead.

[TheTrueM4gg0t]

Ach reglitch. Ive read enough of your posts to know that you wo t give in on principle, but ill try to explain anyway.
I'm not argueing that it cant be usefull to unglyph it for some encounters. Thats perfectly viable.
Im saying its stupid to say its good because its a benefit to longevity.
Extreme example: I say its a benefit to your longevity to go an make a coffee for 5min every 3min. While this may be true because you will be able to do that forever, you arent soing anything usefull.
Its the same when you compare glyph vs no glyph. No glyph has 100% more dead time to achieve the same result.
But as I said the guy with the glyph can also decide to stand around for 1sec without casting after each use of MT.
But he has the opportunity to not do so, and use the time to do something usefull. Thats what you miss out on wirhout glyph. Time. Obvoiusly it costs mana to do something usefull in that extra time, so if you use the additional time do some healing, you will spend more mana but do more healing. (Thats what healing is about)

It just doesnt make sense to advocate to unglyph due to longevity.

Ps: to the previous 1min example, you could instead of using a skill that does nothing else than knock you out for 1min, you could just stand around and enjoy your passive manareg for 1min. result is the same. Dead time has no advantage in any way.