1. #701
    Quote Originally Posted by Treseme View Post
    It's definitely hard to reach the 9158 (I thought it was 9145?) without the "right" gear. When I actually get around to getting upgrades I might try going for it. I know Apku in Method has gone for it but I haven't spoken to him yet about how he feels it's working out. Affiniti hasn't gone for it yet, but he thinks it's well worth it: I certainly do not want to be a in a position where I'm giving up Pandaren's Step or forced to gem 320 haste gems though.
    Yeah I found out today that it would be more than doable if I gemmed straight haste games, but I'm not sure how that would compare to gemming towards Int. I have to admit that I never thought I would end up in a position where mana was mostly irrelevant again, which throws off all of the calculations involving Crit, and by some extension Int itself. Too add onto the complication, the value of Spellpower (and of course by extension Int) has been diminished with an ilvl jump in the past 2 months from 507 to 523, whereas haste only diminishes with itself, and we don't have nearly enough for that to matter.

    It's actually entirely possible with the way ilvls are running up this expansion that haste or even pure crit's relative rarity to the huge amount of free spellpower on weapons will cause it to diminish far less and thus become preferable at some point.... If I hadn't been up for 20 hours at this point I might actually be cognizant enough to do the math. Oh well.

  2. #702
    A mastery perspective.

    I hate not being no.1 healer on the meters - I just hate it and when Im not no.1 and I vigorously search for ways, to either get that snipehealing going or getting a better throughput. Pre PoM I played a priest, which simply posses all the tools needed, to crank out healing on the targets that needs it.. and thats in a short timeframe.
    Switched to monk because of the options for DPS/Tanking, which both are fun playing styles.

    Was sitting looking at a healing parse from magera and was getting annoyed with the huge overhealing closely followed by an annoyance towards our uncontrolable healing - esp. when we are 4 healing it, the overhealing just explodes.
    While looking at the %'ages the only bright spot I found, was actually my spheres of doom(More accurate would be to say "Gift of the Serpent"), doing a whooping 13% of my total healing. Uplift is rather effective as well.

    It made me think about, why it actually had so low overhealing % and it struck me, that the downside of the spheres, was pretty much nullified esp in a place like ToT and when they go off, people ACTUALLY needs healing(AkA. opportunity of "snipe" healing). Due to the nature, how dealing with AOE healing, oftens evolve around a raid collapse followed by a spread out or mechanics evovle around a lot of movement, I would believe, that very few of our spheres actually are running out of time(Had 5 sad whipes on magera, only 1 sphere actually exploded....)

    The periods of collapsed raid is actually quite short and when spreading out again, healers are struglling on getting their heals out, thus actually increasing the effect of our spheres greatly.

    Atm. I go for the standard reforging haste>crit>mastery.. though would like to put mastery up in the front.
    Mastery/Haste has a good synergy, where crit mostly only contribute to overhealing(There is a mana component to it, though, if I lack mana I would go in another direction than crit) I cant do the math, on when haste and mastery reaches the infamous curve cross to spawn the maximum amount of spheres(Whatever I should go for all the mastery as possible) but was actually thinking, the more mastery the more effective healing.. which is actually more controlable than RM imo, how odd that might sound in my effective healing tease..

    I have 2 questions before venturing out in the big mastery adventure.. have anyone actually tried stacking mastery>haste>crit in ToT and how did it go?
    Does the glyph of Healing Sphere thing also affect our Gift of the serpent spheres?

  3. #703
    Deleted
    The reason you see mastery doing such little overhealing is because it doesn't proc on players who are on full HP. So for example, if you SCK and an orb spawns on player a and player a is at full HP, player b will take that orb if he's at a deficit provided they're stacked tightly enough. There's no way to tell how many orbs are exploding if they don't hit anyone.

    A mastery build wouldn't be anything new, at the start of the expansion it was generally believed mastery was the best stat because it did so much of our healing baseline. The problem is a mastery increase doesn't always equate to an increase in the healing done by our mastery, whereas crit always increased healing as did haste. Crit getting an additional efficiency component just made it incredibly far ahead of mastery in terms of reliability and efficiency.

    Now if you were going to go a full on mastery build, to maximize all orb spawns you would want to go as far as probably the first haste breakpoint if possible. Currently if you look at my armory I have 8223 crit. If all of that was mastery I would gain ~ 16.5% mastery, which is a gain in the region of ~ 130 orbs in a 7 minute fight in a 25 man raid, less in 10 man. So yeah, definitely viable in certain conditions, and yes the glyph of orbs does effect our mastery spawned orbs and it would be mandatory for a build like this.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-29 at 01:43 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    Reglitch, what are your thoughts on going for the 9158 haste breakpoint? I've been steadily lowering my Spirit since I got the meta gem (don't want to overshoot it in the middle of progression and find out I run out of mana on a kill attempt :|), and as we've been over a thousand times my only reason for discounting haste over crit was the mana difference. If mana is a non-issue, and I want to drop 3k Spirit, would it not make sense to just go for it?

    Edit: Just realized that this is not possible with my current gear distribution (way too much Spirit/Haste and Crit/haste gear), but suppose it was, the question remains the same.
    I think it's a definite if you have the legendary and any kind of RPPM trinket that's not garbage.

    ---------- Post added 2013-04-29 at 01:54 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Treseme View Post
    It's definitely hard to reach the 9158 (I thought it was 9145?) without the "right" gear. When I actually get around to getting upgrades I might try going for it. I know Apku in Method has gone for it but I haven't spoken to him yet about how he feels it's working out. Affiniti hasn't gone for it yet, but he thinks it's well worth it: I certainly do not want to be a in a position where I'm giving up Pandaren's Step or forced to gem 320 haste gems though.
    It occurs at 38.88% haste, which should be 9145, but I think because of how WoW rounds numbers it's not.

  4. #704
    Reposting something I said before regarding my own gear and having the meta. Most of my gear already has haste on it.

    I have been running with the 9k haste breakpoint for a while and have really liked it. After getting the meta I reforged all spirit to crit.
    I would think anyone who has the meta would reforge out of spirit as there is no need for it. Which means depending on each individual piece of gear that spirit is going to have to go towards crit/haste/mastery. I personally would never put it towards mastery, and given that most of my gear had haste on it everything went to crit. I do have 6 reckless gems that help me get to that 9k breakpoint. With some different pieces and other upgrades I will continue to drop the reckless gems for straight int or int/crit gems.

    Can't link, but armory my monk: Punchcard on Sargeras-US
    My guilds logs are public: Mossad on Sargeras-US

  5. #705
    I'm not the math person, so someone would have to tell me otherwise, but in my current gear I cannot hit the breakpoint without some serious gemming for haste and I don't honestly know that it's worth it (again, if someone can show me math that says the 9145 bp is a larger net gain than the int lost, then I'll defo do it -- otherwise I've just been waiting for better itemized pieces (Neck, rings, so on) ).

  6. #706
    Is the VP waist worth to get? I been very unlucky wiht waist so far in ToT and still using http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/item/87019 Thing is it has haste on it wich the VP one dont have, instead its mastery. I will be capped next reset and i doubt the patch will come so soon that i wont be near capped again if i get the VP one.

  7. #707
    Quote Originally Posted by Affiniti View Post
    I'm not the math person, so someone would have to tell me otherwise, but in my current gear I cannot hit the breakpoint without some serious gemming for haste and I don't honestly know that it's worth it (again, if someone can show me math that says the 9145 bp is a larger net gain than the int lost, then I'll defo do it -- otherwise I've just been waiting for better itemized pieces (Neck, rings, so on) ).
    The problem is that the value of haste and Int both change drastically depending on gear.

    For every RPPM trinket (instead of ICD or real CD like the Talisman) you use, the value of haste goes up by a lot. Haste will mean a lot more to someone with, say, Horridon's and Chalice than it would to someone with the Soothing Talisman and Heroic Spirits of the Sun.

    On the Int side of things, the more Spellpower you have the less of a difference each point of spellpower makes in terms of a percentage damage increase (10k to 11k >>> 30k to 31k, three times as much in fact). While the difference won't be that big (more like the difference between 25k and 30k) that's still a sizable relative difference in each point of spellpower.

    Because of these two facts, the value of going for 9158 compared to the Int from gems goes up the better your gear gets as a whole. What may have been a loss in throughput at 510 ilvl may be a gain at 525 ilvl (weapon especially impacts the calculation because it houses the bulk of your spellpower, which impacts Int's relative diminishing), and depending on what trinkets you have it could change even more. On top of all of that, haste still does not affect burst healing in the form of Chi Torpedo, chain Uplifts (specifically those gained from Chi Brew), any of the T30 talents, or Revival, which means the value varies not only with gear, but playstyle and specific fight/healing strategy.

    TL;DR haste makes my head hurt, it's too complicated to have a hard line at which gemming haste over Int is good. If I knew the answer I'd switch over my gems right now, but I'm erring on the side of favoring my burst healing just in case. Reglitch probably has a much better answer.

  8. #708
    Mechagnome Krazyito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Affiniti View Post
    I'm not the math person, so someone would have to tell me otherwise, but in my current gear I cannot hit the breakpoint without some serious gemming for haste and I don't honestly know that it's worth it (again, if someone can show me math that says the 9145 bp is a larger net gain than the int lost, then I'll defo do it -- otherwise I've just been waiting for better itemized pieces (Neck, rings, so on) ).
    I don't know how much int is wirth the break point, but I found Mr Robot was able to do a nice job getting the haste cap for you Affinitii.. It gets rid of 2k intellect but you get the 9146 breakpoint and keep around 10k crit.

    So if Reglitch can confirm that 2k int is worth losing over it, then it should be good

    or is it more worth losing the crit from reforges and maybe only changing one or 2 int gems to haste?
    Last edited by Krazyito; 2013-04-30 at 01:31 PM.

  9. #709
    Quote Originally Posted by Affiniti View Post
    I'm not the math person, so someone would have to tell me otherwise, but in my current gear I cannot hit the breakpoint without some serious gemming for haste and I don't honestly know that it's worth it (again, if someone can show me math that says the 9145 bp is a larger net gain than the int lost, then I'll defo do it -- otherwise I've just been waiting for better itemized pieces (Neck, rings, so on) ).
    Its not worth it for you until you change trinkets Affiniti, since you are using 2 old trinkets you are not going to see much of the intended gains of a haste build making it plain not worth it.

    Darth

  10. #710
    Field Marshal Ftx's Avatar
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    Hi guys, For 511 ILVL 2Piece of t15, the haste required is 6145 W/O SWS?
    Thankz.

  11. #711
    Quote Originally Posted by darthmauller View Post
    Its not worth it for you until you change trinkets Affiniti, since you are using 2 old trinkets you are not going to see much of the intended gains of a haste build making it plain not worth it.

    Darth
    I figured I'd be waiting on trinkets. Damn things don't drop!

  12. #712
    Has anybody with the unlimited mana "problem" tried going to Glyph of Uplift and using the chi for EM?

  13. #713
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by calanos View Post
    Has anybody with the unlimited mana "problem" tried going to Glyph of Uplift and using the chi for EM?
    Considering the legendary meta doesn't work with the glyph it doesn't work that well unfortunately.

  14. #714
    Mechagnome Krazyito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Affiniti View Post
    I figured I'd be waiting on trinkets. Damn things don't drop!
    Why don't you get the valor trinket instead of polarizing? Would give you more int over-all.

    Or are you waiting on the Lei-Shen one instead.

  15. #715
    If you were unloading enough EM casts to keep mana tea stacks coming in w/ normal spirit instead of forging out of it and the meta gem using Jab-TP-Jab on procs...you might be able to just get in as many Uplifts as you want even if it doesn't work w/ the meta while also providing some help on the tanks with EM.

  16. #716
    Deleted
    http://i.imgur.com/v8Vxw4r.png - Affiniti as he is.

    http://i.imgur.com/QJgDJHf.png - Affiniti as he would be with an extra 3k haste and -1.5k intellect.

    AMR does botched reforges for me, so I'm going to take a loss of 1.5k int for 3k haste as that's what it is in a real budgeting situation. Using affiniti's character, before any change his ReM will on average heal 369,649, and afterwards it will heal for on average 386,494. Let's say an increase of ~3k HPS from ReM factoring in any use of TFT from that alone.

    After that, the next noticeable effect that haste will have is a 10% increase in procs on RPPM. Currently affin has none bar the LMG, so he'd get maybe one or two extra procs per fight which is 8 seconds. For perfect play, on a 10 minute fight such as iron qon and 25 uses of SCK your average mana drain is going to be -23,299 MP5 so let's say that 3000 haste also gives 37k extra mana with the LMG, minimum. (Which would actually put haste higher net mp5 with the LMG, even further with HLG....)

    I know for a fact affin spams his SooM button, so he wouldn't really see an increase until about 54% haste on that (@which point we return to 5.0 levels of chi generation), but if you didn't you'd see maybe 5-6 extra uplifts a fight.

    tl:dr; they're very close at this point from what i have, i think personally 9k is better left for next tier because even with a bunch of RPPM stuff you're not going to see a noticeable gain in output

  17. #717
    finally got to use the meta tonight.... holy crap this is OP. I ran about 7k spirit to be safe and even if i would die i was able to replenish back to 70%+ with a couple procs. just the extra crit i was able to get (25% raid buffed) meant i had mana tea for days. problem i'm facing now is if i want to drop more spirit i can only put it into mastery. should i just go into mastery to shed the extra regen or try for the 9k haste (would need 5 haste gems i think?) or just sit with extra regen to be safe?

    also props to whoever linked the weakaura couple pages back. popped it in changed the sound and it worked like a charm. saved me some time

  18. #718
    I personally wouldnt reforge to mastery. in practice it's quite a bad stat. I checked a few of our logs, and in the end it was worth about 0.5% healing increase per point of mastery, which is about half the value of int/crit/haste. (may be higher for you if you have a more aware raid)
    defenetly go for the 9158 haste instead of reforging to mastery. If you heal in 10m and you're occasionally tankhealing, I would go for 9916 haste (gives a 9th tick to Enveloping)

    only got 7/20 secrets... didn't have the pre 5.2 legendary q finished yet as 5.2 hit, so I startet 3 weeks later, but still I'm horribly unlucky, getting only about 1 secret a week :-(

  19. #719
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTrueM4gg0t View Post
    I personally wouldnt reforge to mastery. in practice it's quite a bad stat. I checked a few of our logs, and in the end it was worth about 0.5% healing increase per point of mastery, which is about half the value of int/crit/haste. (may be higher for you if you have a more aware raid)
    defenetly go for the 9158 haste instead of reforging to mastery. If you heal in 10m and you're occasionally tankhealing, I would go for 9916 haste (gives a 9th tick to Enveloping)
    I have been at the 9k RM break point for a while, guild was working on 10m HC council and i was on frostbite healing duty. I looked into what it would take for me to get to the Enveloping breakpoint, fortunately I only had to use reckless gems so I went for it. I think it really helped healing through those frostbites.

    I am not sure if I will stay at this haste point or not yet. I will probably finish the week out and see if id rather change out some of those reckless gems for more int and drop back to the 9158 point. It will probably also depend on future gear drops as this haste point is not easy to get and I would prefer not to gem using straight haste gems.

    For anyone that wants to see my armory or logs: Punchcard <Mossad> US-Sargeras.
    Last edited by Anticard; 2013-05-02 at 09:59 PM.

  20. #720
    Deleted
    HI guys. i just want to ask how much haste i should have w/o SWS stance. iam 510ilvl no meta. pls reply

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