1. #2061
    Quote Originally Posted by Ebildays View Post
    I hate to poo poo on anyone's parade but letting men have the same amount of time to "opt out" as a woman has to get an abortion is not going to work. I say that because it becomes dependent on the woman notifying the man in time for him to make the decision. TLC already has that show "I didn't know I was pregnant" and I see some women using that as an excuse for late notification of the men involved.
    So the system might not be full proof but it is one hell of a lot better than the current system.

    And how does a women not know their pregnant when they don't have a period for 6 months ?
    Maybe we could ban birth control methods that increase the time between periods as they remove the most effective way to tell if you are pregnant or not.

    Unless I missed something and some women actually do continue to have their period while pregnant though it is something I have never ever heard about.

  2. #2062
    wow ... just wow ... sittin' here readin' some of the posts and going "the fuck is wrong with people these days".

    Could we stop referring to parents as "the creators" it's a not a machine they've made in some sort of factory or sci-fi scenario were some wierd being is "creating" a human =D

    First of, haven't red on post saying they want to remove or diminish the women rights.
    No one wants to control a women, of course there will be people being small-minded and douchés that feels that they can do that. But that's not the general thought from us(read: Men).

    One big thing going on is always the "A man makes more money even in the same position at a job then a women". And that sucks, and men who think it should be that way, should get the head outta their asses.
    I see it this way, if my lady makes same or more then me, it equals more money to the household which equals a more enjoyable life, as economy would perhaps not be the issue(as it is in many homes all over the world right now).

    but since most post is about children and such.

    The issue still stands as this,

    Man and women meets, they have sex. A child is made, the man says "No no no, I can't handle that right now, you have to get an abortion", the women says "No no no, I want to keep the child."
    So it's a status quo.
    In the end it's both that are to blame, to but the blame on one or the other gender is dumb as fuck.
    "You should have used a condome"
    "You could have been on birth control"
    or fuck it, you should have done both!
    or hey, we could have just NOT HAD SEX.

    But it's still on both the women and man rights to choose if they wanna be a parent. But in the end it's the women that makes the choice, as we can't and shouldn't control a women. But if I don't wanna a have child, I should still have my right to say no. If the women decides to move forward with it anyway, it's her choice and her right to make that choice.
    If you for religous reasons or moral reasons don't belive in abortion, well that's your choice aswell.

    You can look at it like this, a man cannot force a women to get an abortion, as it's their choice 100%.
    But a women can't force a man to be dad anymore that they can force an abortion.
    In the end it's their right to keep the child. It's a decision I as a man never will have to take, as I for one would seriously crack under that sort of pressure.

    Have a close friend that went through this exact thing to the end, and I can say he changed his mind on the whole "I don't wanna be a dad" thing as soon as he saw his daughter.. And he is today, 4 years later an awesome dad

    In the end, both are most aware of the fact that a child can be the end-product of their act.
    How it plays out after that is a mine-field I know all to well.

  3. #2063
    Epic! Snuffleupagus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    'Shouldn't have had sex willingly, barring medical conditions and incest" is that better?
    Sure is.
    I may pay my subscription every month, but I don't lose sight of the fact that the other 4/9/24/39 people I'm grouped with pay too.

  4. #2064
    Quote Originally Posted by skrump View Post

    Unless I missed something and some women actually do continue to have their period while pregnant though it is something I have never ever heard about.
    I would guess its about as rare as all these crazy women trying to trap these fine upstanding fellows into paying them child support for a kid.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/physical..._periods.shtml

  5. #2065
    Epic! Snuffleupagus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skrump View Post
    So the system might not be full proof but it is one hell of a lot better than the current system.

    And how does a women not know their pregnant when they don't have a period for 6 months ?
    Maybe we could ban birth control methods that increase the time between periods as they remove the most effective way to tell if you are pregnant or not.

    Unless I missed something and some women actually do continue to have their period while pregnant though it is something I have never ever heard about.
    Some women have very irregular periods.

    And do not go down the "ban birth control" road, even if it is only for certain types of birth control. Access to birth control has been one of the greatest tools in getting women independence and starting them on the road to equality (disregarding how far that pendulum has swung).
    I may pay my subscription every month, but I don't lose sight of the fact that the other 4/9/24/39 people I'm grouped with pay too.

  6. #2066
    Quote Originally Posted by darenyon View Post
    isnt men wanting to leave their children the entire premise of the thread?
    No, I highly doubt the majority of men in this thread would want to abandon their children.
    Many of them would probably much rather abandon the wives and the kids have unfortunately become the legal roadblock that prevents them from doing so.

    This probably wouldn't even be nearly such a big issue if the courts didn't automatically assume that women are more fit to care for children just because the child's life started off inside one.

    Then again their are still quite a few men who are simply pissed that women are handed a get out of jail free card when it comes to childbirth yet the men themselves are not yet we are still held accountable for the choice the women makes "which is complete bullshit"
    (and it's even worse when women try to argue that it is both fair/just and how it needs to be)

    Especially considering that men are the Dominant sex, we have the capability to push our agenda on women "as we did for thousands of years" yet were called vicious monsters for trying to come to a compromise with women over such matters"

    Essentially women's refusal to cooperate is the reason men like Scott Peterson feel they have no recourse other than killing their wives to get out of such situations. (not the best example but the most recent and well known I can think of) and I sure as hell am not condoning his actions

  7. #2067
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    I would guess its about as rare as all these crazy women trying to trap these fine upstanding fellows into paying them child support for a kid.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/physical..._periods.shtml
    Women trapping a man into a relationship using a child/pregnancy is something quite common.

  8. #2068
    Quote Originally Posted by Castiell View Post
    Women trapping a man into a relationship using a child/pregnancy is something quite common.
    I think the term trap can be up for debate there. Feeling like you have been "pushed" into it and legally having no way out are different things really.

  9. #2069
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    I think the term trap can be up for debate there. Feeling like you have been "pushed" into it and legally having no way out are different things really.
    Well holding a man in a relationship / in life long debt against his will through means of deception is what i consider a trapping

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-23 at 10:47 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus View Post
    What the actual fuck?
    lol, its like 2% even.

  10. #2070
    Quote Originally Posted by skrump View Post
    No, I highly doubt the majority of men in this thread would want to abandon their children.
    I would never actually abandon a child. Even though it "never happens," a condom broke during sex with a girl I was dating, and I told her I would support whatever decision she made. She decided the morning after pill was most suitable and thats the end of that story.

  11. #2071
    Quote Originally Posted by Castiell View Post
    Women trapping a man into a relationship using a child/pregnancy is something quite common.
    Prove this statement.

  12. #2072
    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    Prove this statement.
    I dunno about where you are but in California it is quite common and I personally know several women who have done it.

    Oddly enough in 3 of those cases the child ended up being raised by it's father because the female couldn't handle the burdon of parenting and became mentally stressed or got into drugs thus giving the father the needed legal footing to fight for custody of his child.

    Furthermore My father raised me by himself for 7 years of my life after him and my mother split as she pretty much abandoned me, however from 15-18 I lived with my mother.

    My father never even requested child support even though financially he was less capable of caring for me than my mother yet when my mother gained custody the first thing she did is seek child support.
    Last edited by skrump; 2013-01-23 at 11:20 AM.

  13. #2073
    Quote Originally Posted by skrump View Post
    I dunno about where you are but in California it is quite common and I personally know several women who have done it.

    Oddly enough in 3 of those cases the child ended up being raised by it's father because the female couldn't handle the burdon of parenting and became mentally stressed or got into drugs thus giving the father the needed legal footing to fight for custody of his child.
    I'm sorry, I meant prove it with actual verifiable statistics, not unverifiable personal accounts. I suppose I should have worded that better.

  14. #2074
    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    I'm sorry, I meant prove it with actual verifiable statistics, not unverifiable personal accounts. I suppose I should have worded that better.
    That's just the thing though, you will never find verifiable statistics on it because it would counter productive to the male who claimed it is currently happening to him.

    I mean lets think about it If a women has my kid so that I either stay with her and I then proceed to make it public knowledge I am then going to get forced apart from being with my kid by the mother while still being required to be liable for the well-being of that kid even if she limits or withholds contact between me and my child. Nor do I have any chance of gaining custody unless I can prove she is more unfit to provide/care for the child than I am.

  15. #2075
    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    I'm sorry, I meant prove it with actual verifiable statistics, not unverifiable personal accounts. I suppose I should have worded that better.
    My mother said to my father that she will cut it at £200/month "child support" if he pays it and keeps quiet, saying that if he dragged it to court she would be getting double that. Websites on child support support that amount. To help understand why the offer was so low - she was in work and had moved in with an architect. The money was a non-issue, so I gave my allowance (lunch money through school/college) to my dad to help out a little.

    Website calculators (and backed by a quote) aimed it at £380/month.

    I doubt my case is special. Why would men continue to go to court when there is no way for them to get out better form it usually? It's too much risk too little reward. That's why any mention of cases can only say (logically) there are other men like that, but cannot give figures.

    It's comparable to male-targeted domestic abuse. They think 75% of it isn't reported in the UK, but how do they know?

  16. #2076
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    verifiable statistics
    that´s witchcraft and you know it
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

  17. #2077
    Quote Originally Posted by skrump View Post
    That's just the thing though, you will never find verifiable statistics on it because it would counter productive to the male who claimed it is currently happening to him.

    I mean lets think about it If a women has my kid so that I either stay with her and I then proceed to make it public knowledge I am then going to get forced apart from being with my kid by the mother while still being required to be liable for the well-being of that kid even if she limits or withholds contact between me and my child. Nor do I have any chance of gaining custody unless I can prove she is more unfit to provide/care for the child than I am.
    And there are quite a few studies that prove women get favorable treatment in custody cases in the US, and that it is (slowly) changing. Again, there is no evidence you have that a woman 'trapping' a man into a relationship by intentionally being deceitful about birth control and getting pregnant is anywhere near as commonplace as people in this thread seem to think.

    If this thread was about the sexes being equal regarding custody of the child in the event of a couple splitting, then I wouldn't have any problems with it. The fear and jealousy towards women and pregnancy make the thread reek not of fairness, but of wanting more power over a situation that is inherently unfair, while ignoring the needs of the potential child.

  18. #2078
    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    And there are quite a few studies that prove women get favorable treatment in custody cases in the US, and that it is (slowly) changing. Again, there is no evidence you have that a woman 'trapping' a man into a relationship by intentionally being deceitful about birth control and getting pregnant is anywhere near as commonplace as people in this thread seem to think.
    If you meet something shocking multiple times in your life it becomes less shocking and more of a norm.

    If this thread was about the sexes being equal regarding custody of the child in the event of a couple splitting, then I wouldn't have any problems with it. The fear and jealousy towards women and pregnancy make the thread reek not of fairness, but of wanting more power over a situation that is inherently unfair, while ignoring the needs of the potential child.
    more power over themselves* in a situation that is inherently unfair.

  19. #2079
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    And there are quite a few studies that prove women get favorable treatment in custody cases in the US, and that it is (slowly) changing. Again, there is no evidence you have that a woman 'trapping' a man into a relationship by intentionally being deceitful about birth control and getting pregnant is anywhere near as commonplace as people in this thread seem to think.

    If this thread was about the sexes being equal regarding custody of the child in the event of a couple splitting, then I wouldn't have any problems with it. The fear and jealousy towards women and pregnancy make the thread reek not of fairness, but of wanting more power over a situation that is inherently unfair, while ignoring the needs of the potential child.
    so because you think that it isn´t commonplace enough we shouldn´t make anything about it? ha
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

  20. #2080
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    so because you think that it isn´t commonplace enough we shouldn´t make anything about it? ha
    I think we have to weigh the damage to those who are currently screwed by the system to the damage that would be caused by changes, yes. Sorry to see that goes over your head.

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