Boy... this makes me really eager to stop advocating mens rights...

[Deleted]

If you'd summarily dismiss the ridiculously big influence that is the environmental factors that are today's society, I must say you don't know much psychology.

I didn't dismiss anything. I said "ridiculously big influence", not all influence.

[Spectral]

Look, I get it. You don't think it's important to have genetic paternity.

Most men do.

You don't get it. That's fine. No one's saying you have to. But don't say it's unimportant merely because you think so.

No, you obviously don't get it. I'm not arguing that people don't prioritize it, I'm saying that there's not a logically valid reason for them to do so. I can't imagine being a sufficiently fuckbrained asshole to raise a kid for 18 years, love and cherish him/her, then find out that it doesn't share a sufficiently high genetic identity with you and think, "shit, I could have avoided all that!". The only way this should be a real issue is for someone that didn't want a kid in the first place. In all other cases, it's just irrational base instinct.

[Kurioxan]

im sure i could find a survey saying that you do, and post a thread about it.

Nuh huh! *shakes head*
Also while i do agree that some guys are going overboard with this and boarding on misogyny which is stupid considering it all, but if you want to blame someone blame the women who participated in this survey (anyone found if its true yet or just bs?), 50% of them being lier's and cheaters does not reflect on the entire female population, but it does reflect those.

I dont mind white lies, i dislike them and avoid them at all costs so i dislike when a gf does it, but i accept them, but would never even consider lying to my gf for monetary reasons or cheating, well wouldnt cheat.

But this is me, it doesnt reflect the male population either, i would say that the male numbers would be quite similar to this.
Now, that culturally due to many reasons women grow up using more often tools such as deceit due to inability or unacceptability of more direct confrontation, but even so, i do think the numbers would be similar.

[Spectral]

If you don't think that hormones/biology have a ridiculously big influence on our sex drive and desire to have offspring, I must say you don't know much biology.

If you think that's what I said, I must say that you don't know much about reading.

[DieFichte]

And this is relevant how?

There are more men tricking women into 20years of finacial burdens then other way around if there are more women receiving no child support.

[Deleted]

There are more men tricking women into 20years of finacial burdens then other way around if there are more women receiving no child support.

Except women can abort, men cannot. Women can give the child to adoption, men cannot.

[Rukentuts]

It's not the other side of the coin.

Uh...yeah, it is. People are bitching that the laws only work for 96% of men because of what women said they "might" do. It's perfectly applicable to examine how these very same laws affect the other party.

---------- Post added 2013-01-16 at 06:09 PM ----------

Except women can abort, men cannot. Women can give the child to adoption, men cannot.

Woman: "I'm on the pill".
Man: "I'll be there for it".

Both lies can be and are entrapment with dire financial consequences.

[Laize]

No, you obviously don't get it. I'm not arguing that people don't prioritize it, I'm saying that there's not a logically valid reason for them to do so. I can't imagine being a sufficiently fuckbrained asshole to raise a kid for 18 years, love and cherish him/her, then find out that it doesn't share a sufficiently high genetic identity with you and think, "shit, I could have avoided all that!". The only way this should be a real issue is for someone that didn't want a kid in the first place. In all other cases, it's just irrational base instinct.

Logically valid? What are we, Vulcans now? We need a logically valid reason to make our life choices?

By that logic, men should never marry (Unless they make a crazy amount of money, for tax purposes).

[Rukentuts]

Logically valid? What are we, Vulcans now?

Clearly not; because Vulcans would have dismissed this thread the moment it founded itself in hypothetical garbage.

[Spectral]

Logically valid? What are we, Vulcans now?

You're the one advocating that people optimize reproductive strategies.

[larrakeyah]

But this is me, it doesnt reflect the male population either, i would say that the male numbers would be quite similar to this.
Now, that culturally due to many reasons women grow up using more often tools such as deceit due to inability or unacceptability of more direct confrontation, but even so, i do think the numbers would be similar.

Anyone with a gf, female friends, sisters... knows women are more twisted than men.

[Raiju]

dont trust your partner? wear a condom.

While most of your arguments have been pretty hollow throughout the thread...

hindsight is a beautiful thing.

And I don't believe anyone with firsthand experience will argue against mens currents rights in family court (for most western countries). It's a joke, doesn't exist.

[DieFichte]

Except women can abort, men cannot. Women can give the child to adoption, men cannot.

Not every woman can abort or give the child away, and if you ask me why, you should check on your biology reasons.

[starlord]

Because citing research and surveys are how policy (hopefully) gets made?

how does the research of "50% of women would cheat and lie about it" help men?

i mean heres another one that shows men are more likely to cheat than women.
what legislation should we base off that?
http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18233843

[Laize]

You're the one advocating that people optimize reproductive strategies.

I'm not the one advocating for people to do ANYTHING.

I'm saying most men want to raise kids that are their own. You're saying that's a stupid desire.

[Kasierith]

Anyone with a gf, female friends, sisters... knows women are more twisted than men.

And you base this off of.. what? Apart from obscure references to "Anyone."

[DieFichte]

I'm not the one advocating for people to do ANYTHING.

I'm saying most men want to raise kids that are their own. You're saying that's a stupid desire.

Emotionally? It is.

[Deleted]

Uh...yeah, it is. People are bitching that the laws only work for 96% of men because of what women said they "might" do. It's perfectly applicable to examine how these very same laws affect the other party.

First of all, the laws do not work for 96% of men. I just told you but you're obviously not very good at math. It's like saying car accidents only apply to 0.001% of humans because only 0.001% are current in a car accident. You have to look at how many people have been in a car accident/have been fucked by the laws, not how many are currently.

Second, the woman has decided to keep the child even though the father didn't want it. The financial burden should be on her in that case. Just as if the woman decided that she doesn't want the kid but let's the father adopt it from her. And if she doesn't want to carry the child at all, she can abort, regardless of the wishes of the father.

This just isn't the other side of the coin.

Not every woman can abort or give the child away, and if you ask me why, you should check on your biology reasons.

Yes, every woman can abort of give the child away (assuming it's legal of course). Just because she doesn't want to doesn't me she cannot. Jesus christ...

[Laize]

how does the research of "50% of women would cheat and lie about it" help men?

Depends on the legislation you want to enact. If you want to make it so that if no man wants to claim paternity and she wants to finger someone as the father, she has to prove he IS the father (Through a subpoena process if necessary) and on her own dime. The one making the ontologically positive statement is supposed to be the one providing proof. Isn't that how these things ought to work?

i mean heres another one that shows men are more likely to cheat than women.
what legislation should we base off that?
http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18233843

We should probably make it pretty easy to get a divorce then. Oh wait, that's already done.

[Deleted]

I think you've got the wrong idea.

Here's Bill Burr to explain it for me (and most of the MRM I would bet).

Just watch the whole thing before you decide he's being a misogynist.

I am pretty sure this guys over use of the word "whore" (which is a very gendered insult) definitely makes this rant misogynistic, whether he meant for it to be or not. It shows his view of women quite clearly - that women who DARE TO HAVE SEX are whores. But men who have sex are just men.

Yup.

Also concerned about this guys view about men too. Are you all seriously unable to control yourself around women you find attractive?