Boy... this makes me really eager to stop advocating mens rights...

[starlord]

Men generally are at a sever disadvantage when it comes to family court and child support especially. Its not unheard of for a deceived man to find out, years down the line, to want to call it quits and be ordered to pay child support by the courts due to the child's interests.

i know how little childrens interests matter to you so i'll bow out now before things get... messy...

[Rukentuts]

Also, were you able to bring up the actual survey in itself? I can't seem to find any trace of it.

Admittedly I didn't look very hard, but I cannot either.

This is just too fishy for me. That's why I'm being reserved on this because I find it somewhat hard to believe.

[starlord]

So basically what you're saying is it's ok for a woman to lie about infidelity and the paternity of her child to preserve a relationship? You're saying it's fair that another man should unknowingly be forced to take on the burden of providing for another mans child under the false belief it is his own?

where did i say it was fair? i said both genders do shit like that. theres plenty of cases of men lying to women about having children with other women, or even being already married.

[Collegeguy]

I read about that. One article even wrote that it should be the woman's prerogative to decide who raises her child even if its different from the real father.

Well, I remember the feminist responses on mmoc were fairly laughable. I think the prime complaints were it would make deliveries more expensive and something about hurting the persona of womanhood .

[Pachycrocuta]

which they are doing to preserve their relationship, not be ebil gold diggers, which is the implication i got. so i think its fair to ask how guys compare in the same area before going "WOMEN ARE ALL EVIL LIARS TRYING TO TRAP INNOCENT MEN".

What do you mean "in the same area"? Are you talking about British guys? Talking about lying about the baby? Or what?

[Kurioxan]

So...you choose to interpret the data as meaning that women are oppressing men? You could just as easily use it to conclude that people from Great Britain are assholes.

I would go more with that :P Culture women are born in affects them more than their genitals, so i would blame this one more on culture than nature

This society see's women as weaker, and they are raised to have their aggressiveness turned into different things, thus the mad passive agressive wars in highschool between girls that can get far nastier than the occasional push in the hall guys do.

Not that surprising, but still sad.
Anyway, yeah needs men's results to draw a conclusion, would assume women will lie more, men to lie less, both cheat the same and white lie the same...

Anyway, this one makes me laugh:

One bizarre finding was that a third of women (33%) said they would stay with their husband if they found out he was a "secret transvestite",

Bizarre? whats wrong if the guy is a transvestite? that impacts nothing in their relationship, if anything means he has his sexual outlet and hey, maybe they can share clothing if similiar sizes lol

[Deleted]

So men suffer because of their inability to sack up and take a portion of the responsibility for birth control?

I simply said whats commenly used. problem?

I actualy know a fair amount of couples that do have "the snip". But that doesnt generaly happen untill the relationship is pretty tried and tested because its a pretty big deal. Seems you also assumed the use of condoms flies out the window which as far as i know is the only option guys have appart from an opperation to get the snip, where as there are numerous ones for women.

[Kasierith]

Admittedly I didn't look very hard, but I cannot either.

This is just too fishy for me. That's why I'm being reserved on this because I find it somewhat hard to believe.

It may just be my natural aversion to lay articles presenting itself... but I have trouble taking the word of the British equivalent of People Magazine without a more substantial base.

Got a headache fishing through the magazine's website trying to find the article... bleh.

[starlord]

What do you mean "in the same area"? Are you talking about British guys? Talking about lying about the baby? Or what?

lying about cheating, which this amounts to.

[Veyne]

The whole concept men's and women's rights is bullshit in their entirety. Egalitarianism is where it's at. Won't even happen when people adhere to concept's such as "men's rights" and "women's rights."

[Kasierith]

The whole concept men's and women's rights is bullshit in their entirety. Egalitarianism is where it's at. Won't even happen when people adhere to concept's such as "men's rights" and "women's rights."

So you favor the dissolving of the concepts of physics and chemistry and biology in favor of a more universal term, hard science?

[Pachycrocuta]

lying about cheating, which this amounts to.

Actually, this is worse than cheating. And the 2nd portion of Laize's OP had nothing to do with cheating (the part about getting pregnant by lying about being on birth control). Yes, they both lie about cheating. That's a given. Hard for a guy to lie about the woman's baby not being the woman's.

[Destruktion]

So men suffer because of their inability to sack up and take a portion of the responsibility for birth control?

"Sack up" is never a compelling argument.

where did i say it was fair? i said both genders do shit like that. theres plenty of cases of men lying to women about having children with other women, or even being already married.

That's no different than women doing the same thing to men.
THIS is about a power that women alone have. Deceiving a man into raising a child that is not his own is not equivalent to a man having children with other women.

[Daskapital]

Seems you also assumed the use of condoms flies out the window which as far as i know is the only option guys have appart from an opperation to get the snip, where as there are numerous ones for women.

I certainly have not assumed the use of condoms flies out the window. I'm not the one accidentally getting women pregnant, though. If a guy knows how to use a condom and is using one and his partner shows up pregnant, he probably wants to insist on a paternity test there, cause 98% effective means you should not be having surprise babies.

[Deleted]

lying about cheating, which this amounts to.

No it doesnt. Its more worriyng then just cheating.
For example a guy cheats, knocks up a girl, has baby, his current partner finds out, and leaves him problem solved.
Women cheats, gets pregnant, has baby, lies to current partner its his, now has him or his financial support for 18years even if he leaves her.

This is not about the petty argument of cheating. This is if such a high % of women would lie about these major things (if the survey is true). Which is much more serious because if the guy doesnt get a dna test, he is fucked for 18years. weigh it up.

[DieFichte]

So a study says half of my girlfriend is lying if she is pregnant, well, she isn't and I trust the other half of her enough anyway. Guess I don't really care about such studies at all.

[starlord]

Actually, this is worse than cheating. And the 2nd portion of Laize's OP had nothing to do with cheating (the part about getting pregnant by lying about being on birth control). Yes, they both lie about cheating. That's a given. Hard for a guy to lie about the woman's baby not being the woman's.

actually its just cheating, the child is irrelevant since if all she wanted was child support it wouldnt matter who the father was.

as to the second, yes its a complete outrage. buy your own condom and wear it if you dont trust your partner. wow that was hard.

---------- Post added 2013-01-16 at 02:04 PM ----------

No it doesnt. Its more worriyng then just cheating.
For example a guy cheats, knocks up a girl, has baby, his current partner finds out, and leaves him problem solved.
Women cheats, gets pregnant, has baby, lies to current partner its his, now has him or his financial support for 18years even if he leaves her.

This is not about the petty argument of cheating. This is if such a high % of women would lie about these major things (if the survey is true). Which is much more serious because if the guy doesnt get a dna test, he is fucked for 18years. weigh it up.

the only reason they would bother lying is becayse they didnt want to be caught cheating. if you want to say child support should be reworked thats a different issue.

[Laize]

I think that, considering the population you're looking at is women who cheat on their husbands and women who are nigh-sociopaths and don't care about their partners wishes, kind of indicates that the character of these women is already fairly foul.

Actually that was a simple survey of 5000 women average age of 38. Said nothing about those women being cheaters or psychopaths as part of the study. Just in general.

Also, were you able to bring up the actual survey in itself? I can't seem to find any trace of it.

I just got home. I'll look.

---------- Post added 2013-01-16 at 10:12 PM ----------

actually its just cheating, the child is irrelevant since if all she wanted was child support it wouldnt matter who the father was.

Yes it would if her husband made more money than the other man.

---------- Post added 2013-01-16 at 10:14 PM ----------

lying about cheating, which this amounts to.

I didn't think this needed to be said, but it's (in general) pretty fucking important to a guy that the kid he's raising be his own.

[starlord]

Yes it would if her husband made more money than the other man.

she could just divorce him and get alimony/a settlement if she didnt care about their relationship.

[Priestiality]

she could just divorce him and get alimony/a settlement if she didnt care about their relationship.

Settlements and alimony are based on the circumstances under which the divorce is taking place. A woman that says "I cheated on him then tried to trick him into raising the child that isn't his" isn't going to get anything in way of a settlement or alimony.

And you keep saying "she cares about the relationship" as if that justifies it. If she cared about the relationship she wouldn't cheat to begin with so your argument is invalid.