New Smokebomb

[fierydemise]

You should have a power/weak aura to warn you for the fixate. If you make that you will see the aura roughly 2 seconds before the fixate actually happens. Now I did heroic Empress on my Hunter and not on my Rogue so it's difficult to comment on something I have no experience with, but can't you just make a macro to Shadowstep to one of the ranged? You have plenty of time to hit your Shadowstep macro when the fixate is on you (if you use an aura) so you can blink out of the melee straight away.

If the windblade is in melee range of you they can, and will, melee attack you as soon as the fixate happens, I'm watching my PoV from the kill video and I take the damage from the melee swing within about a second of the aura popping up. If the add has 2 stacks it can one shot you as your aura pops up or equally dangerously the melee swing you take will daze you making you easy prey from sonic blade.

Anyway Cheat Death is fine for these kind of mechanics or mechanics where you are forced to soak something special like Zon'ozz's orb in Dragon Soul. Other than that I really don't get why people spec into Cheat Death unless they aren't that good at avoiding things and this actually gives them a lot more DPS from not dying as often.

Mistakes happen and not having to waste a brez after a mistake is worthwhile. We all like to think we don't make mistakes but we do especially on progression. The other thing is cheat doesn't just save you from your own mistakes, it can save you from other people's mistakes or things that aren't really mistakes at all. If a healer is slow on a terrorize dispel or a shaman is slow on a tremor drop cheat can save you. If you a healer falls behind on healing and you get "triaged" cheat can save you. Does cheat save me every pull? Nope but compared to the other options on that tier for general purpose survivability cheat is very strong. You can make a good case for leeching poison as combat, as assassination the healing isn't good enough to justify the choice.

On Topic: Power Word: Smoke bomb is really powerful, one of and possibly the most powerful melee dps raid cd in the game.

[Verain]

On Topic: Power Word: Smoke bomb is really powerful, one of and possibly the most powerful melee dps raid cd in the game.

Well, it's obviously stronger than demoralizing banner, but it also has half the duration and a tiny range.
It's also a wee bit stronger than rallying cry.

Of course, a warrior can put both up at the same time, the combination of which is 6.7% better than smokebomb- and of course, no funny raid restrictions.

It's better than the general use of AMZ, but the specific use (where you cheese the first tick of an effect) is still valuable.

Is it better than feral tranq? How does it compare to feral heart of the wild plus rejuv blanket? I'm not so sure.

While worthy, it's clearly on par with or less than other melee who have it. It's valuable because it's another thing. It doesn't punish you for bringing the rogue, or at least, not as much.

But honestly man- where you do you get "possible the MOST powerful melee dps raid CD in the game"? I mean, I'm assuming you mean "raid cooldown brought by melee dps", and it also sounds like you are forgetting the truly anemic radius on this thing. While a great rogue buffs, warriors are still better at this exact role, right? Why would you say it could be the most powerful?

[fierydemise]

You're right considering RC+Banner as one CD it is weaker but I think you can make a case that the versatility of smoke bomb makes it stronger then devo aura, AMZ or feral tranq (haven't had a feral in our raid group this expansion so I'm less sure on this one). This does assume Blizzard doesn't stay with the HoF model for big raid damage. If Blizzard goes back to aoe pulses being primarily magic damage then devo aura and AMZ compare much more favorably.

The glyph situation also should be remedied, whether that means baselining the smoke bomb glyph or baselining the AR glyph and removing and rebalancing vendetta I don't really care.

[Mazius]

I mean, I'm assuming you mean "raid cooldown brought by melee dps", and it also sounds like you are forgetting the truly anemic radius on this thing.

It's wider than AMZ (by 1.5 yds) and PWB (by 1 yd).

[Sesshou]

I'm just curious, you've done Vizier HC or talking about talents in general? Attenuation in HC is pretty different from normal, and in addition to Sonic Ring (hits for 140-160k) there's Sonic Pulse (hits for 280k-320k)
Those numbers reduced to 70k-80k and 140-160k with feint, to 49k-56k and 98-112k with talented feint (obviously elusivness already better than cheat death), if you really screwed up - glyphed CoS reduces those numbers further to 29k-34k and 59k-67k (all those numbers before the armor values btw)
Believe me, 100k HS heals won't save you there - you need to prevent damage taken.
Not to mention that you don't need glyphed CoS anywhere else during this fight - it's oh shit" button for P1 and "must have" defensive CD for p2 (for force and verve)

If that glyph saved my ass on more than one occasion (i was sole survivor on our 1st Vizier HC kill, for example) - then i'm really need this glyph for this fight.

There's no choice between Cheat Death and Glyph of CoS. Choice is between Elusivness and Cheat Death, and there's no any choice there, tbh.
Elusivness >> Cheat Death, end of story (not only for Vizier HC but in general too).

No, I haven't killed it. We have people die to normal attenuation so until they stop, its going further down on the list. I have seen heroic attenuation though. I have also seen kill videos of people surviving it without cloak of shadows.

Again you are missing the point. I'm not arguing against taking the glyph. I'm also not arguing cheat death > elusiveness on that fight. What I am arguing is that you don't "need" the glyph because you are surviving other times without it anyway. It is not mandatory. You can survive attenuation. You can survive force and verve without cloak... I mean hell, most classes can't even reduce it as much as elusiveness feint can and they aren't all insta gibbed.

Sorry, having something save you doesn't make it a "need." If it did, you would have taken cheat death because you "need" it. Its the same thing. Assuming perfect play, you don't need the cloak glyph because you have to survive without it the rest of the time. You also don't need cheat death because you still have to survive the 2 minutes before it comes off cd. Something you have just in case crap happens isn't something you "need," it is something you want to have in case crap happens. Something there in case crap happens is not something you "need" to do your job.

[Deleted]

i count 2 1combat 1 assassination the others are situational i never seen myself needing CoS nor Sprint Ö_ö why would you need blind ? elaborate plz cuz those glyphs you meintions are all situatinals you dont realy need them

Sprint is mandatory in almost every fight because less time running around = more time dealing damage and being useful.

Blind can be useful on HC Windlord and HC Will of the Emperor. But that depends on raid setup.

CLoS is mandatory on HC Windlord if you have 3 Elite blades charging around and no disc priest. You won't survive their triple charge and talenting elusiveness is a waste here. You deal huge amount of dmg in this fight so leeching poison heals for huge amounts. I haven't tried HC Viz, so can't comment on that.

Then we have feint and weaken armor. Weaken armor depends on raid setup and fight. Sha of Fear is a good fight for WA glyph.

Feint is mandatory every other fight.

If you play sub or combat deadly momentum is also a viable glyph on some fights.

If 5.2 changes would go live tomorrow I could see me even using the smoke bomb glyph on some fights.

[Jiigeri]

CLoS is mandatory on HC Windlord if you have 3 Elite blades charging around and no disc priest. You won't survive their triple charge and talenting elusiveness is a waste here. You deal huge amount of dmg in this fight so leeching poison heals for huge amounts. I haven't tried HC Viz, so can't comment on that.

Obviously sprint has it's uses on vizier for moving from platform to another. Glyphed cloak of shadows isn't a waste either, since both Attenuation and Force and Verve deal physical damage (at least attenuation's discs do, don't honestly know about the orbs). Clos glyphs allows me to soak an Force and Verve if/when needed. Elusiveness wouldn't be bad either but I personally prefer leeching poison.

[Maelstrom51]

Elusiveness wouldn't be bad either but I personally prefer leeching poison.

Eh, I'd only take Leeching on something like Garalon where there's constant AoE damage. But even then its iffy.

[Mazius]

No, I haven't killed it. We have people die to normal attenuation so until they stop, its going further down on the list.

Don't know is it 10 man or 25 man you talking about, and don't remember how we dealt with attenuation on normal (prolly everyone on their own), but on HC you dealing with it as group, so unless you implementing HC tactic for normal - it's pointless to wait.

I have seen heroic attenuation though. I have also seen kill videos of people surviving it without cloak of shadows.

You should try and see it yourself, i think. Once again, you need any additional damage reduction you can get, and if you can get it - then why not do it?
There's no use for CoS apart from removing debuffs from other players there.

What I am arguing is that you don't "need" the glyph because you are surviving other times without it anyway. It is not mandatory. You can survive attenuation. You can survive force and verve without cloak... I mean hell, most classes can't even reduce it as much as elusiveness feint can and they aren't all insta gibbed. Something there in case crap happens is not something you "need" to do your job.

With that kind of logic glyph of Smoke Bomb is not mandatory for 5.2 too. It's not something you "need" to do your job. You can survive without it, your raid can survive it, why the hell take it then?

[Koji2k11]

thats 3 boss fights where they are actually usefull its not like you NEED them for every fight

[Sturmgewehr86]

I am just happy with it.It is something we didnt have,now we have raid cd.

[Deleted]

thats 3 boss fights where they are actually usefull its not like you NEED them for every fight

You don't need your weapons either, you can stand afk there too if the raid has enough dps.

Of course you don't need every glyph for every fight, but on some fights some glyphs are a huge boost to survivability and damage.

[Minky]

I'm surprised people are complaining about this.
How bad are Rogue players these days that they'd complain about something like this?

I'm hoping they're a vocal, idiotic minority - because this sort of raid utility on a pure DPS class is fecking awesome - maybe not in this particular tier; but in many older tiers, and many future tiers, I'm positive it'll be pivotal in how high-tier guilds tackle bosses.

[Florena]

Smoke bomb will remain being very powerful in arenas and rbgs, and now it has the added bonus of being useful in certain PvE situtaions. Nothing to complain about here, and it's not the only buff rogues are getting this patch.

[Koji2k11]

You don't need your weapons either, you can stand afk there too if the raid has enough dps.

Of course you don't need every glyph for every fight, but on some fights some glyphs are a huge boost to survivability and damage.

why would you raid then if your not willing to do your job ? >_<