The Credit Bureaus and why they are non-sense.

[alturic]

Note: I completely understand the NEED to have some sort of system like "worthiness" to pay debts on essentially "loaned" products/services.

The problem I have with these credit bureaus/systems/scores is that they are a.) made up of arbitrary "scores" and b.) not very "friendly" to the consumer.


Let's say you apply for a cellphone, they pull your credit report and you don't have a horrible credit score (arbitrary number) so you are approved.
So, let's say you have a cellphone contract and you're paying your monthly bill on time, every month for a year. Nothing changes on your credit report, at all.

Now, let's say you miss that one payment. Nice entries about how you missed a payment start showing up. You missed 2 payments so you see a 30 and 60 day late payment. You then resume paying everything and guess what? All that remains is those 2 little red boxes showing you missed a payment, nothing about you making good payments now.


My point about not being "fair" to the consumer, is that for the amount of "protection" our government wants to give us consumers, it's completely beyond me how they could allow companies to not only pull your credit report and report a missed payment, but not be required to be showing all the on-time payments as well.

I mean, I can't be alone on this issue, I don't think a single paying consumer can disagree with me that if a company is allowed to pull your credit report (I understand you are giving them permission, I don't mean it in a unlawful way) AND report missed payments they should be then required to also report all of the on-time payments?

It blows my mind that a system that is basically (for better or worse) completely inter-twined with almost everything in society a SIMPLE thing such as this shouldn't be required?


So, at the end of the day, I have a 765 FICO score, what does that "mean" to me? Absolutely shit. Oh hey, I pay bills on time, GREAT! You should trust me now, but while I'm paying your bill on time, don't help me raise my score (that you so NEEDED in order to "value" me on), only lower my score if I do miss a payment. Makes no god damn sense to me.

[obdigore]

You don't understand how credit scores work, you don't start with a perfect score and only have it go down from there. Your on-time payments are reported and if you don't miss any they will continue to increase your credit score.

[FathomFear]

Um, the longer you make consecutive successful payments the more it does help your score. Credit scores are not just based on negative events. For example, the ratio of your total debt to your total available credit is one way of increasing your score. And you have direct control over that.

Ultimately, the scores aren't arbitrary. They're calculated with a bunch of factors in mind. It's a necessary system in order for lenders to assess risk. If there were no such mechanism in place, the financial system would fall apart. People wouldn't have the confidence to lend money, which would stifle economic growth. While it can be a pain in the ass sometimes, it's not something we can really live without.

[alturic]

You don't understand how credit scores work, you don't start with a perfect score and only have it go down from there. Your on-time payments are reported and if you don't miss any they will continue to increase your credit score.

Forgive this for sounding completely brash, but did you even read past the first two sentences?

You do realize that cellphones, tv service, utility companies, etc all pull and "value" you based on your credit right? The same companies that don't report your on-time payments, but instantly report your missed payment...

[Garnier Fructis]

I would think it really obvious that only having 1 or 2 late payments means all the other payments were on time, because you either paid on time or didn't.

[alturic]

Um, the longer you make consecutive successful payments the more it does help your score. Credit scores are not just based on negative events. For example, the ratio of your total debt to your total available credit is one way of increasing your score. And you have direct control over that.

Ultimately, the scores aren't arbitrary. They're calculated with a bunch of factors in mind. It's a necessary system in order for lenders to access risk. If there were no such mechanism in place, the financial system would fall apart. People wouldn't have the confidence to lend money, which would stifle economic growth. While it can be a pain in the ass sometimes, it's not something we can really live without.

Did I really make the wall of text that hard to read or am I the only person who's cellphone, tv, internet and utility bills don't show up on my credit report but they sure as hell will show up if I stop paying them?

[Deathquoi]

Forgive this for sounding completely brash, but did you even read past the first two sentences?

You do realize that cellphones, tv service, utility companies, etc all pull and "value" you based on your credit right? The same companies that don't report your on-time payments, but instantly report your missed payment...

Except they do report if you're a timely payer. If you pull your credit report right now it should say whether your account is up to date, delinquent, or in default. If it's up to date, that improves your score. It doesn't seem like you know how these things actually work.

[Garnier Fructis]

Did I really make the wall of text that hard to read or am I the only person who's cellphone, tv, internet and utility bills don't show up on my credit report but they sure as hell will show up if I stop paying them?

The fact that they don't show up on your credit report does not mean your on time payments aren't factored into your score.

[obdigore]

Forgive this for sounding completely brash, but did you even read past the first two sentences?

You do realize that cellphones, tv service, utility companies, etc all pull and "value" you based on your credit right? The same companies that don't report your on-time payments, but instantly report your missed payment...

Mine show up. If these companies aren't reporting on time payments, ask them to start, and if they don't you can go to a different company.

[Tornainbow]

Actually, the problem with the credit "score" is so much deeper than that.

Ever try getting incorrect information removed? Better have a good lawyer.

Also, there's no obligation for companies to report good information. If you piss off your mortgage company they can literally just remove that tradeline from your report. Boom...score goes down 150 points.

It's all a scam.

[Deathquoi]

Did I really make the wall of text that hard to read or am I the only person who's cellphone, tv, internet and utility bills don't show up on my credit report but they sure as hell will show up if I stop paying them?

They don't show up because they're not credit accounts. The only reason they show up if you fail to pay is because it impacts your trustworthiness. You're supposed to pay your utility bills on time, you don't get a cookie for doing it.

[alturic]

Except they do report if you're a timely payer. If you pull your credit report right now it should say whether your account is up to date, delinquent, or in default. If it's up to date, that improves your score. It doesn't seem like you know how these things actually work.

Yea, my Comcast (internet), DirecTV (TV), electric, gas and water don't show up on any of the three major credit reports. They definitely did do credit checks on me though when signing up.

[Deathquoi]

Yea, my Comcast (internet), DirecTV (TV), electric, gas and water don't show up on any of the three major credit reports. They definitely did do credit checks on me though when signing up.

Like I said, they're not credit accounts.

[obdigore]

Yea, my Comcast (internet), DirecTV (TV), electric, gas and water don't show up on any of the three major credit reports. They definitely did do credit checks on me though when signing up.

Rent payments show up. My Cell Phone payments show up.

Edit -> You need to take out a credit card or two and pay everything on them then pay them off every month.

[alturic]

Mine show up. If these companies aren't reporting on time payments, ask them to start, and if they don't you can go to a different company.

The fact that they don't show up on your credit report does not mean your on time payments aren't factored into your score.

I can't keep quoting everyone, it is late and maybe I completely fucked up the wording that I was trying to use. The POINT I'm trying to make, is why in the hell should it be "Ok" for a company to pull your credit report and report a missed payment but not be required to report all of your on-time payments. Two things are fact, at least for the 5-10 people in real-life that I've ever talked to about it.

1.) None of the things I'm talking about being "reported" are in fact, reported. If they are "secretly" (see: not shown on a consumer pulled credit report) that's a different story I suppose, but I would definitely assume they aren't being reported.

2.) ANY "debt" isn't supposed to be given a "cookie", but you know what? My mortgages, my car loans, my business loans they all show up nice and neat every month as on-time payments is my point.

Maybe the "showing up" aspect is only for "credit lines", but the POINT I've been trying to get accross is how the hell is it "legal" for companies to pull/value/report "bad" information about you without having to report the "good" information about you as well.

[Mormolyce]

You think you have it bad, here in Australia the credit bureaus are so primitive that not only do they only record defaults and not good credit behaviour, but a credit inquiry actually counts negatively on your rating. So if you apply for 5 credit cards by the 5th your credit rating has gotten worse than it was on the 1st.

[Kulanae]

I would suggest reading the following:

http://www.myfico.com/downloads/file...fs_booklet.pdf

[obdigore]

You think you have it bad, here in Australia the credit bureaus are so primitive that not only do they only record defaults and not good credit behaviour, but a credit inquiry actually counts negatively on your rating. So if you apply for 5 credit cards by the 5th your credit rating has gotten worse than it was on the 1st.

That is how the US credit agencies are, if you apply for a ton of credit quickly from multiple different sources it is a big red flag.

[alturic]

Rent payments show up. My Cell Phone payments show up.

Edit -> You need to take out a credit card or two and pay everything on them then pay them off every month.

The "problem" lies in the fact that me (as a business owner) can easily pay Experian a "membership" fee to be able to touch your credit report. I can pull your report (obviously you have to agree to it) if you want to buy my service, and I can report your missed payments, but I'm not obligated to report your on-time payments is my problem...


Do you guys honestly not see what I'm getting at and what's "wrong" with what I'm saying?

[DEATHETERNAL]

The problem I have with these credit bureaus/systems/scores is that they are a.) made up of arbitrary "scores" and b.) not very "friendly" to the consumer.

a.) they are not arbitrary
b.) if it was "friendly to the consumer", it would be worthless as it would be untrustworthy to the businesses who use it

My point about not being "fair" to the consumer, is that for the amount of "protection" our government wants to give us consumers, it's completely beyond me how they could allow companies to not only pull your credit report and report a missed payment, but not be required to be showing all the on-time payments as well.

It is called liberty. If the company is not violating your liberty, they can do whatever they heck they want and let me break it to you, not reporting to some privately run agency when you pay your bills doesn't violate your liberty. At the same time you have the liberty to make yourself look foolish by making this thread. Enjoy your liberty.

Maybe the "showing up" aspect is only for "credit lines", but the POINT I've been trying to get accross is how the hell is it "legal" for companies to pull/value/report "bad" information about you without having to report the "good" information about you as well.

Because they are a private entity that you do not fund an therefore have no power over as the entity is not violating your liberties. Get over it.

So, at the end of the day, I have a 765 FICO score, what does that "mean" to me? Absolutely shit.

Mostly likely because, as you have shown in your posts, you lack understanding of what you are talking about.