I think people are underestimating how bad the Warrior nerfs actually are.

[Shocktroop]

warriors are still so ridiculous on live it wont be a bad thing if the nerfs go slightly over the top.

I was watching some of the yaspresents tournament games yesterday. It was just sad seeing the only lock participating get soloed by the warrior dropping health by 30% chunks, going 50-0 in 2 secs. Even the moderators couldnt help but break out in laughter about the reality of warlocks in arena right now.

warriors are still better represented in all brackets than all rogue warlock and monk specs combined.


What warriors really need are mechanical changes that make them more challenging to play and do well, though. Same goes for holy paladins and BM hunters. Nerfs will help for the immediate future though. And knowing Blizzard they will probably leave it at that.

They will never make warriors challenging to play seeing as they removed stance dancing since it was deemed "too hard" by all the drool cup wearers. If you have not learned by now that the current team is incapable of balancing the game, I do not know what to tell you.

[Gamez]

"Warrior's being strong ? no no no! Nerf them to the ground and turn them into punching bags." ~Blizzard's Logic of Class Balance

[Deleted]

Wall of text.

It's a shame some people do not understand what a wall of text is.

And yeah, while Warriors have been a little over the top in 5.0 through 5.1, the upcoming nerfs may be a little too hard. I hope they won't be though.

[Senathor]

Nobody should be overpowered nor underpowered, but I just hate Warriors and as a DK I'm happy if they get destroyed, sorry.

[Gatsu]

What I see is just hundreds of posts coming from biased ppl who don't understand what balance is.
I always said the current state of warriors was insane, especially before 5.1, I was being objective. Seems a very rare thing.
Haters gonna hate, i know.

[kosechi]

"Warrior's being strong ? no no no! Nerf them to the ground and turn them into punching bags." ~Blizzard's Logic of Class Balance

again with the not remembering every single season where warriors have been melee gods. give it a rest people. three bad seasons doesn't constitute 'nerfed to the ground'

stop feeling entitled.

[Hallu]

Maybe you guys should try Fury next patch? Seems very skillful.


(On 7300 resil)

[Deleted]

Well Blizzard don't know how to buff/nerf classes.
I play a warrior and I think the changes are disgusting!
Why couldn't we keep the 25% dmg reduction on def stance, and keep the original nerf on second wind. Atleast when we sit in a snare or something we could survive it. And seeing that charge cannot break out of roots. Also why does OP have a rage cost!

It just proves Blizz doesn't know how to balance classes. I hope we don;t go in the same direction as in cata!

[Deleted]

"Warrior's being strong ? no no no! Nerf them to the ground and turn them into punching bags." ~Blizzard's Logic of Class Balance

Yeah was much better when you guys could one shot people and still being ahead of the pack by a large margin is obviously where you deserve to be.

again with the not remembering every single season where warriors have been melee gods. give it a rest people. three bad seasons doesn't constitute 'nerfed to the ground'

stop feeling entitled.

2 bad seasons, they were strong very strong at the start of Cata before being nerfed a lot. And even then it was the dominance of mage and rogues that hurt them so badly.

Well Blizzard don't know how to buff/nerf classes.
I play a warrior and I think the changes are disgusting!
Why couldn't we keep the 25% dmg reduction on def stance, and keep the original nerf on second wind. Atleast when we sit in a snare or something we could survive it. And seeing that charge cannot break out of roots. Also why does OP have a rage cost!

It just proves Blizz doesn't know how to balance classes. I hope we don;t go in the same direction as in cata!

Why should you survive it? Hardly anyone else can!

[meathead]

And all was right in the world.

Seriously, can't believe you are even complaining about Defensive Stance moving to situational defensive usage instead the primary stance in PvP. Kind of boggles my mind how you don't think such a change is good for the class and makes sense.

As far as the general nerfs go, Second Wind still heals for the same. Now, you're just a more susceptible target for a stun to be used on. And a loss in ten percent damage reduction, while a heavy nerf, will be offset by the increased damage dealing capability you have when using Battle Stance. Y'all were a difficult kill target as it stands, now you're a viable one. I still don't think you guys will be as delicate as DK's are currently. The following is why I think that is the case:

Blood Presense provides additional armor (the equivalent of a shield) and 8% damage reduction. A DK can cast about 6-8 Death Strikes a minute that heal 7% of max health. (.07 x 8) / 60 = .0093 percent of max healing done per second. Taking Battle Fatigue into account, that's a total healing per second amount of (.0093 x .70) = .0065 percent.

Keep in mind, a DK has to sacrifice 1 Obliterate per 1 Death Strike used, as both attacks have the same resource cost. Obliterate's damage is 230% weapon damage plus 12.5 % damage per disease on target (Frost uses 2 diseases at all times for a total of 25% damage increase, thus 287.5% damage is expected). Death Strike's damage is 185% plus 499.

In short, we sacrifice about 100% weapon damage for every Death Strike we use, which is approximately 2 Mastery procs as Arms at 55% weapon damage apiece. So, consider this fact that we sacrifice this damage to sit in a defensive stance that completely neuters our damage through reduced Runic Power generated, increased Runic Power cost of Frost Strike, and removes the benefit of a lessened CC duration we get from Frost Presence, all for .65% healing done per second.

Warriors, however, have 3% healing per second from Second Wind. With Battle Fatigue, this number drops to (.70 x .03) = .021 percent of life healed per second. However, Second Wind got nerfed to not be active during stuns. So, how long would a Warrior who is constantly below 35% life (full uptime on Second Wind) need to be stunned in order for the 2.1% number to drop down to a DK's HPS of .65%? (.065 x 60) = 39% healed over 1 min. for a DK. (.39 / .021) = 18.66 seconds of Second Wind uptime per minute as a result of stuns. You need to be stunned for a full 41 seconds per minute in order to have the same healing per second done from a passive talent, when compared to a DK's active healing that requires a great deal of damage sacrificed and constant uptime on target.

At the same time, Warriors will be benefitting from 15% damage reduction, compared to 8% damage reduction as a DK. Assuming both a Warrior and a DK will have around 70-73% damage reduction from Resilience come 5.2, a both will have (100 - 71.5) = 28.5% damage taken from all attacks. A Warrior will have (28.5 x (1 - .15)) = 24.22% damage taken come 5.2, whereas without the 10% stance nerf, they would have (28.5 x (1 - .25) = 21.38% damage reduction, for a difference in (24.22 - 21.38) = 2.84% damage taken increase. A 10% nerf, because of Resilience, is actually only 2.84%. Just for reference purposes, a DK will take (28.5 x (1 - .08)) = 26.22% damage taken in Blood Presence, which is less damage reduction.

I'm not saying DK's are UP or OP, nor am I saying that Warriors will be OP or UP come 5.2. However, I am saying that this myth of warrior survivability going belly-up is complete garbage if you look at the numbers behind the situation.

lmfao boy you sure left out alot in your post right?are you really trying to justify all these warrior nerfs?

a dk can heal if his attack lands or not,correct?and at any health level right?why are you comparing that to 2nd wind that only kicks in -35%?compare your heal to VR,that a better comparison.2nd wind no longer heals while stunned,in the game today there is more cc and stuns they ever before.warriors will die to class like rogues without getting any heals from 2nd wind.think about that a min,a class not getting one self heal in todays game,lmfao.dont say its not going to happen because it going to and we all know it.why not do some math on that,without any heals from 2nd wind.bang kidney shot = dead,bang pally stun = dead.what that you say game balanced around 3's.ok drop warrior to 35% then cc his healer,stun warrior once or twice and hes dead without an heal.you act like its hard to cc/stun in todays game.

2nd- why are you trying to tell warriors what stance we have to sit in for pvp?there is no pvp stance any more,there is no fury or arms stance any more.if a warrior sit in d-stance we get less rage and we do less damage then sitting in battle stance.we can do mor damage in battle stance then we can do in d-stance.there nothing worng with warrior sitting in d-stance,it does what it supposed to do,reduce damage at the cost of rage.wtf dont you get about that?you said it yourself you can go blood satnce but you do less damage,well so does a warrior in d-stance because the rage is better in battle.you act like warriors are supposed to be in battle stance.do you even remember when berserker stance was the pvp stance?games change and warrior did to.

---------- Post added 2013-01-20 at 12:03 PM ----------

Maybe you guys should try Fury next patch? Seems very skillful.


(On 7300 resil)

88k is the biggest hit i see in your little picture.are you trying to say other classes dont hit for that much with there cds poped?88k is common,i actually got hit for 150k twice back to back by a lock on my fc prot war by a lock and that was low damage at the time.if you think 88k is over the top what do you call dks damage?

[Powerflux]

Warriors will still be good.

[Hallu]

88k is the biggest hit i see in your little picture.are you trying to say other classes dont hit for that much with there cds poped?88k is common,i actually got hit for 150k twice back to back by a lock on my fc prot war by a lock and that was low damage at the time.if you think 88k is over the top what do you call dks damage?

Point was that you can (almost) kill someone in a Warbringer stun. Add Shockwave and it's GG.

[Deleted]

Why should you survive it? Hardly anyone else can![/QUOTE]


who cannot survive sitting in roots worse than warriors?
other classes have the ability to heal/disappear/defensive cd or break out of them, warriors can't, so having the def stance at 25% would have been great to keep.

[meathead]

Point was that you can (almost) kill someone in a Warbringer stun. Add Shockwave and it's GG.

they both have been nerfed,cant you trinket?you think showing a pic of you getting blown up shows how wow pvp is?yeha you guessed it no other class can do more damage then a warrior.i guess that why arms is #1 in damage in pve beacsue there damage is so high,o wait arms is one of thr worst dps classes in pve.warrior have good burst in pvp and thats it,out side of that our damage sucks.

i also want to thank you for proving my point you say you got stunned and blown up right?so now you have to agree that the 2nd wind nerf is uncalled for right?warriors will get stunned and blown up without getting any heals from 2nd wind.ty you again for agreeing with me

[dercaderca]

Theses changes along with the buffs for monks, rogues and rets is going to put warriors in a very bad spot.

High end teams don't have many issues controlling a warrior currently, if you see one pop all cd's and you don't do anything to stop it it's your fault.

[kosechi]

Y
2 bad seasons, they were strong very strong at the start of Cata before being nerfed a lot. And even then it was the dominance of mage and rogues that hurt them so badly

season 5 was pretty crappy for warriors. 3 bad seasons.

[Illiterate]

They still need to remove shockwave and nerf cd stacking. Maybe then warriors will finally be in line with the next strongest melee class.

[Gangresnake]

Shockwave DR-ing with warbringer is probably where they are going too far

[Gatsu]

They still need to remove shockwave and nerf cd stacking. Maybe then warriors will finally be in line with the next strongest melee class.

lol. worst troll ever.

[Flaks]

Wall of text.

And no Warriors will still be top tier melee in arena in 5.2.

He went point for point without bias for why they won't be while throwing in comparisons for why rets and dks are ALREADY better off than warriors in some departments in 5.1. In 5.2, the things warriors have over rets and dks will be gone. And with massive WW monk and rogue buffs warriors will be sitting comfortably next to enh shaman who still have their resto specs to be viable in arena with.

---------- Post added 2013-01-20 at 06:29 PM ----------

They will never make warriors challenging to play seeing as they removed stance dancing since it was deemed "too hard" by all the drool cup wearers. If you have not learned by now that the current team is incapable of balancing the game, I do not know what to tell you.

They've been attempting to bring back stance dancing in a game where 3 second cds on something so crucial means you're dead.

---------- Post added 2013-01-20 at 06:31 PM ----------

Maybe you guys should try Fury next patch? Seems very skillful.


(On 7300 resil)

An example of someone who doesn't understand what's going on.

Anyone remember 4.1? Where warrior utility was gutted? And then 4.2? Where everything else was gutted and warriors were left to be one shot macro bots with throwdown -> pop all cds and kill all while being kited to oblivion otherwise?

That's exactly where we're headed right now. All that's left to bring us back to 4.3 warrior level status is a nerf to cd stacking.

P.S. I'll say it a million and first time: warrior mobility sucks ass. Just because we can get to our target for 1.5 seconds at a time doesn't mean we're better off that literally every other melee who is able to stick to it's targets for an exceptionally longer amount of time while also moving flat out faster than the warrior.