I think people are underestimating how bad the Warrior nerfs actually are.

[kosechi]

Like I said, expect frost to be replaced by UH next patch. All ret first tier talents yield massive movement speed gains. They have exceptionally short cd/no cd root/snare removers. Unlike warriors, both these classes have the option to talent into abilities that make them have more grip. And my bad, death's advance leads to the 126% movement speed in uh presence.

dks have short cd root/snare removers? like what? deaths advance prevents you from going below 70% movement speed. but doesn't remove them, ams immunes magical snares but doesn't remove them

rets can immune and remove them but what is this talent that gives rets more grip? they don't talent the ranged snare, and they can't close gaps instantly.

Also, 115% movement speed =/= 107% movement speed. Warriors do not move at the same speed as rets, dks, enh shammies, rogues, ferals or ww monks. Warriors ARE the slowest melee in the game. And yes, that 8% makes a significant difference especially when in the time the warrior gets hamstring on, the other class can use one of their low cd abilities to remove the snare already.

rets don't run at 115% baseline, the talent that gives them that isn't taken in pvp. dks don't commonly spec deaths advance and dks are getting no significant survivability buffs so most will still be sitting in blood pres, so even with deaths advance thats only 110% and thats only IF UH becomes the preferred spec which i have seen no evidence of.

I have no idea where you're getting that warriors have a low cd root/snare remover. They only ever had one for the brief period where heroic leap with pvp 4 piece broke roots IN BETA.

last time i checked safeguard was a low cd and removed roots and snares.

[Deleted]

You're going to have a hard time convincing anyone with half a brain that those stats matter when people have been sitting on their ratings since October.

If 5.1 ended up being a new season, we'd see warrior representation plummet and likely equalize with rets, dk's and even ww monks (who were perfectly fine and competitive with 5.1 changes) while feral reprsentation would have sky rocketed.

Did you even watch the Yaspresents tournament? Warrior teams everywhere. Even 3 warriors on the top 4 teams.

And your whining regarding warrior mobility??? Go watch the tournament. Their mobility is superb. Look at how Caara is excelling at his class by locking down his opponents with hard switches and short duration CC.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Did you even watch the Yaspresents tournament? Warrior teams everywhere. Even 3 warriors on the top 4 teams.

And your whining regarding warrior mobility??? Go watch the tournament. Their mobility is superb. Look at how Caara is excelling at his class by locking down his opponents with hard switches and short duration CC.

WHAT!? No, I don't care how well they are doing, or what portion of high rating they take up, I don't care if they are the most used/winning class/spec, NO ONE NERFS MY FAVORITE CLASS AND GETS AWAY WITH IT! RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE

[Lulbalance]

WHAT!? No, I don't care how well they are doing, or what portion of high rating they take up, I don't care if they are the most used/winning class/spec, NO ONE NERFS MY FAVORITE CLASS AND GETS AWAY WITH IT! RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE

this was funny ^^. in before flaks posts yet another baseless justifiation.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

this was funny ^^. in before flaks posts yet another baseless justifiation.

"But a season in cata, warriors got stomped on! HERPITY DERPITY!"

It just kills me how Warriors will ignore the stats, but I am sure they used those very same sites to complain in Cata about why they should be buffed.

[cFortyfive]

Did you even watch the Yaspresents tournament? Warrior teams everywhere. Even 3 warriors on the top 4 teams.

You mean that tournament where half the teams did play with shit pings ?

"But a season in cata, warriors got stomped on! HERPITY DERPITY!"

It's funny because it is coming from someone making balancing suggestions based on his experience wearing blues in a bg.

You're going to have a hard time convincing anyone with half a brain that those stats matter when people have been sitting on their ratings since October.

Actually no the concept that nerfing something that late into the season will have considerably less impact in comparison to the magnitude of the changes on the current ladder due to rating camping/inactivity and mmr is not really something people understand.

[Principe]

get over it, was sick of queing into you fotm mongo scrubs shockwaving on cd and hitting what lights up on your action bar thinking you are good. I hope you get nerfed to the point where your class is literally unplayable.

[Beefkow]

Lol, im enjoying reading these posts...

Yes, warriors will be continually balanced and nerfed, but for all i know..... im scared that arms warriors won't be viable anymore but hey! there are plently of classes to play out there, so if your not satisfied with a certain class, move on and try the next, if you don't like any of them then just don't play the game.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

It's funny because it is coming from someone making balancing suggestions based on his experience wearing blues in a bg.

Oh look at this tough guy. Assuming just makes an ass of yourself. I have done many an arena over the years of WoW being released. Bring one example from a BG does not make anything I say less legitimate. But good try.

[Kreeshak]

Oh look at this tough guy. Assuming just makes an ass of yourself. I have done many an arena over the years of WoW being released. Bring one example from a BG does not make anything I say less legitimate. But good try.

I looked up the whole thread and you haven't said anything else regarding warrior being OP other than the representation which already proved flawed because if they didnt camp those ratings it would be a lot different. So basically he is right. You are just another bg hero who got his feelings hurt perhaps pre nerfs.

[SheenTheWarlock]

Dude, that's just like saying the CD on cyclone for Ferals is unfair, it's not it's unfair that some classes have so much CC whilst some have none, e.g Death Knights( No stuns besides Ghoul) and no disarming abilities. How bullshit is that? But yet you don't see even half the amount of DK's complaining look no one likes being stunned by shock wave ery 20 seconds or being cycloned every like 10 seconds. It's just apart of the game all classes need to be equaled. Also if you say 25% Defensive Stance is not OP there is something seriously wrong. What other fucking class gets that much damage reduction? So just shush and roll with what's the best thing for WoW and that is for it too be balanced.

[Kreeshak]

What other fucking class gets that much damage reduction?

Not all classes are homogenised. For example blood pressence boosts the dks hit points. Rogues have vanish. Retris have bubble and bop immunity. Druids have symbiosis. Hunters have deterance. Mages have alter time and ice block. Thats off the top of my head. If all classes can't be the same how can you possibly compare one warrior ability? I would happily for example trade the whole defensive stance for ice block. See what I did there?

[Darksoldierr]

season 5 was pretty crappy for warriors. 3 bad seasons.

S5 was bad for everyone except DK, Pala and Hunter

[Deleted]

You mean that tournament where half the teams did play with shit pings ?

Are you really that naive that the players participating aren't min maxing in their comp/class choice?

Ok, lets be a little more fair and include all the top 4 teams in group A and B:

Group A
Last Again: Venruki/Sodah/Talbadar (Mage/Druid/Priest)
Knew you were trouble: Cdew/Kurum/Corje (Shaman/Hunter/Warrior)
Yas Reality Check: Shawir/Another/Geru (Warrior/Death Knight/Paladin)
Toxic Youth: Boetar/Swapxy/Linkx (Warrior/Shaman/Paladin)

Group B
The Time is Now: Jahmilli/Starship/Zaddo (Mage/Druid/Priest)
TSG: Veev/Talason/Zilea (Warrior/Druid/Paladin)
Comprendre L'Empire: Flubbah/Cara/Skoe (Shaman/Warrior/Priest)
Honor Capped: Colard/Saffie/Teebow (Warrior/Warlock/Shaman)

So the only teams not having a warrior in it were two god comps...

By the way you are over estimating the difference latency does. If a serie ends 3-0 then the losing team wouldn't have stood a chance with 100 less ms.

[Nudle]

can i ask u something how is it fair to have 25% dmg reduction passive an not think is OP ?

Staying in defensive stance gives us shit rage, and if we get caught in battle stance, we die in one KS/smoke bomb.
We sacrifice (rage) dps for higher survivability.
Oh and by the way...we don`t have 2 iceblocks, 2 deterrences, 2 vanishes etc and we still die in defo stance against good players, globaled even.

[Deleted]

Its like that every expansion. First season warriors are pretty much overpowered, then they are weak, then in the middle they become op again (remember bladestorm?)

Well i remember back in WOTLK when Blizzard screwed warcraft so hard they had to make suggestion threads in every class forum. "What do your class need?"

Moonkins: "WE NEED SURVIVAL!"

Patch: "Starfall dmg increased so much itll one shot everything within 40 yards.

Moonkins: "WE DIDNT ASK FOR THIS BLIZZARD YOU SUCK!"

Blizzard: "Were going to nerf Starfall to crap again."

Moonkins: "WELL THANKS ALOT FOR NOTHING!"

Warriors are not unique. Every spec/class Blizzard doesnt play or care about gets the same treatment.

[Kreeshak]

Are you really that naive that the players participating aren't min maxing in their comp/class choice?

Ok, lets be a little more fair and include all the top 4 teams in group A and B:

Group A
Last Again: Venruki/Sodah/Talbadar (Mage/Druid/Priest)
Knew you were trouble: Cdew/Kurum/Corje (Shaman/Hunter/Warrior)
Yas Reality Check: Shawir/Another/Geru (Warrior/Death Knight/Paladin)
Toxic Youth: Boetar/Swapxy/Linkx (Warrior/Shaman/Paladin)

Group B
The Time is Now: Jahmilli/Starship/Zaddo (Mage/Druid/Priest)
TSG: Veev/Talason/Zilea (Warrior/Druid/Paladin)
Comprendre L'Empire: Flubbah/Cara/Skoe (Shaman/Warrior/Priest)
Honor Capped: Colard/Saffie/Teebow (Warrior/Warlock/Shaman)

So the only teams not having a warrior in it were two god comps...

By the way you are over estimating the difference latency does. If a serie ends 3-0 then the losing team wouldn't have stood a chance with 100 less ms.

Player perception can be misleading when a strong trend has being established. In Greek restaurants Pepsi hasn't advertised as much as coka cola. You might see a customer enter a pepsi store and ask for coke to have the waiter correct him and say "you mean pepsi" .Yet the point of this thread is that they are nerfing warriors further. Harsh nerfs. While they are buffing other classes further. Strong buffs.

The point of this thread is that warriors will be unplayable next season when they will die 10 times more easier and will have problem sticking to their targets, resulting in far less damage, sustained or burst.

[Rhaktor]

I main DK so it's very hard for me to comment on warriors without my thick veneer of bitterness showing through.

I think its clear from this thread that very few people playing classes other than warrior have any sympathy for your current PTR position. It may be that currently on PTR warriors are terrible, but the main focus of blizzards nerfs are your survivability and utility, if your damage is nerfed too hard then as they've stated - they can tune it up.
The survivability nerfs are *not* too much. You need to get your heads out of the clouds - your current survivability is obscene, down here on the ground with the other melee I can confidently state that defensive stance was far too strong and needed to be changed. 25% damage reduction is more than many other classes get in cooldowns, I know that these cooldowns often provide other benefits in return for their low damage reduction (such as IBF offering 20% but also stun immunity/break) but I say this as a frame of reference. When you gain a constant damage reduction higher than 1-3 minute cooldowns of other classes that's too much - Second wind was indirectly buffed by your passive reduction as well which caused the whining about that ability.

In summary, while I don't believe you deserve to be as useless as DKs are atm I do think that even with these nerfs you will be in a reasonable state, doubly so if blizzard decides a damage re-tune is needed.

[Simplistic]

blah blah blah I do more damage and self-heal better than healing hybrids and I want it to stay that way blah blah blah. Warriors deserve a serious nerf.

[Flaks]

S5 was bad for everyone except DK, Pala and Hunter

PMR's STILL shit on dk/pala/hunter and went rank 1 in s5 despite the aforementioned's broken state. Warlock teams also did well because the class was a hard counter to at least two out of those three classes.

I'll stick by what I said. Warriors nerfs are way over the top. The OP outlined everything coherently and without bias. If you can't look past your own bias don't put it on us to keep stuffing the facts down your throats.