Is this not total bs?

[rhorle]

In America, tips are something paid by the customer to bring the waiter wage up to minimum wage.

A waiter only needs to get one 6 dollar tip an hour to make above minimum wage. Federal law also ensures they always make minimum wage or their employer faces fines.

[Silhouette of Seraphim]

Ignorance of how the system works is excusable. Deliberate ignorance of how the system works after it's been explained to you in plain English is just a stubborn self-righteous entitlement.

In America, tips are something paid by the customer to bring the waiter wage up to minimum wage.

Tips can, but they're guaranteed minimum wage BY LAW from their employer if tips don't cover it.

So aside from sob stories, they will ALWAYS make at least minimum wage, with the potential for a lot more.

[Reverence]

25 minutes is kinda slow.

Plus, the cooks don't give a fuck what the driver gets tipped.

Perhaps for a store that uses a conveyer belt oven where the pizza is put from one end and comes out the other. Stores that use brick ovens have pizzas that take longer to cook.

[Extrazero8]

Then why can I leave 0 as a tip and not be charged anything? It isn't a service fee because I am not liable to pay it.

Its a fee that is optional based on your service.

While you personally can leave $0 as a tip, if everyone stops tipping then the restaurant will start charging everyone more to cover that. That means that you will be paying more if you take your food to go or dine in. As it is now you can take your food to go and not worry about the service charge or tipping. If you take advantage of the service you should be paying for it. If you don't then your freeloading off other people that do.

Personally I don't mind freeloaders as that means I'm getting better service than they are.

I'm not getting it for free. The place I ordered from charged a delivery fee in order for it to be delivered. A tip isn't paying for the delivery because I can give you 0 and get it for free anyways.

Yes, thats called freeloading. Other people tip for the service and you get a smaller bill because of it. That's ok with me because I get my food first and you get to come after me.

The tip is a tip. Why do you feel entitled for something extra for doing the job I've paid your boss for you to do?

The boss pays the employee based on the assumption that they will be getting tips. The employee that is giving you service is not getting much out of it if tips are not given. The prices on the menu reflect that lower wage. If you don't want to pay for the service you have the option of just leaving with your food.

If you don't want to tip and freeload off of other people that's fine. As long as you're OK with not being the server or driver's priority.

If it is the fee for delivery then why do you still give me the pizza when I don't tip? What would happen if you refuse to give me the pizza when I refuse to give you your "fee"? After all I don't pay you to deliver it why are you still delivering it to me?

You don't have to tip. Well, unless everyone doesn't tip then your cost is going to be more to cover that. You also don't have to come first.

[rhorle]

Yes, thats called freeloading

You can't freeload if you pay for your bill. The tip is not part of the bill unless it is a gratuity. As gratuities are when the place automatically adds the tip to the bill.

If the tip to a delivery driver is the fee for delivery then why do I still get my pizza without paying for the delivery? Why isn't it part of the amount the driver ask me to pay? According to the way it works it isn't a fee for delivery. Go ahead and get something delivered and see if they ask you for the tip when they tell you how much you owe for the delivery.

They won't. So its not a fee. Its a tip.

[Reverence]

You can't freeload if you pay for your bill. The tip is not part of the bill unless it is a gratuity. As gratuities are when the place automatically adds the tip to the bill.

If the tip to a delivery driver is the fee for delivery then why do I still get my pizza without paying for the delivery? Why isn't it part of the amount the driver ask me to pay? According to the way it works it isn't a fee for delivery. Go ahead and get something delivered and see if they ask you for the tip when they tell you how much you owe for the delivery.

They won't. So its not a fee. Its a tip.

I think people are just hung up on the definition of the word tip. As a delivery driver the word carries a different meaning, same for waiter/waitress.

[rhorle]

I think people are just hung up on the definition of the word tip. As a delivery driver the word carries a different meaning, same for waiter/waitress.

As long as it is optional and up to the discretion of the customer to pay it is the same definition and not a different one.

[Reverence]

As long as it is optional and up to the discretion of the customer to pay it is the same definition and not a different one.

But unfortunately for you, and no matter how badly you want it to be, it still will carry a different meaning to me and everyone else who relies on tips for their income. Now you could counter that with, "Oh well your boss should pay you more" or something along those lines but the fact of the matter is until turnover in the restaurant industry isn't as astronomically high as it is today the people that rely on tips have no other option but to work with the system that is there. You are right, you are well within your right to stiff the delivery driver, just don't expect that driver to choose your home over other people's homes when presented the option.

[breadisfunny]

Tipping is not mandatory.

in our area restraunts now add the tip to the cost of the bill. pizza places also add cost of gas to the bill as well. i guess they got tired of people not tipping.

[rhorle]

But unfortunately for you, and no matter how badly you want it to be, it still will carry a different meaning to me and everyone else who relies on tips for their income. Now you could counter that with, "Oh well your boss should pay you more" or something along those lines but the fact of the matter is until turnover in the restaurant industry isn't as astronomically high as it is today the people that rely on tips have no other option but to work with the system that is there. You are right, you are well within your right to stiff the delivery driver, just don't expect that driver to choose your home over other people's homes when presented the option.

At what point do you the driver have to behave? Why do you deserve the tip when you will treat me like crap at a moments notice if I don't make you happy? You are working for me, not the other way around. And yes I can say your boss should pay you more because they should. Just because they don't and you make most of your money through tips doesn't change that fact that they are still optional.

And treating customers like crap just because they don't tip you, or don't tip you enough shows that you don't deserve a tip. You are holding good service hostage and the price is a tip. It isn't about turnover, people have sued pizza places before when they weren't getting enough compensation and they have won.

That fact that you even agree it is MY right to tip you or not further proves that you behavior is just being a douche because you can't earn above minimum wage. It also proves that you don't hold a different meaning. You just need one $6 tip an hour to earn more then you hired in rate. Its not my job to pay you, its your employers. We all like more money. But you don't deserve more money from me just because your job is delivery.

If you and other drivers want people to always tip you shouldn't treat some people unfairly. Act as if you were getting a tip and you'll like get more tips. Act like a douche and well you'll probably get less.

[Tradewind]

Pay the tip tightwads, or don't. Justify it however you want nobody really cares except the driver.

[Thehealbus]

If a pizza place offers delivery and doesn't say there's any cost extra, it's not my fault you don't get payed to do your job.

I can't believe how mad the employees get at the customers because the damn employers don't pay them enough to run deliveries / service.

This system creates this terrible place where the employee gets all malicious to the customers because they're not giving them free money.

And yeah, I've had waiter friends tell me they spit in peoples food if they recognize you as someone who didn't tip before, way to be a good person / employee.

[shadowmouse]

You're not entitled to delivery so why do you think you should get it for free?

Actually, I am entitled to it. The store offered and I accepted. If you want it to be different, there is a different model; a guy with a car and some hustle directly sells the service that you're talking about. He goes to that French place (the one that doesn't deliver), picks up my stuff, brings it to me and I pay for the service that I've purchased. As the model exists now, the delivery driver may find it convenient to think that he's an independent contractor and many aspects of the job may make it seem like drivers are, but they are not. I have purchased something put on offer by the company they work for at the stated price. If the guy brings my pizza in bad weather, a tip is fine, but just finding my house isn't particularly outstanding service.

As for the various comments about freeloading, buying preferential treatment and just take the food and go ... get over yourself. If it makes you feel special to bribe your way to the front of a line, that's nice; however, that doesn't mean that others are freeloading -- you're just using what the US substitutes for those cash filled envelopes that we scold other cultures for. Gongxi, gongxi ni! Hong bao na lai! (Congratulations, fork over the red envelope.) Thanks for helping me get in the season's mood!

Don't eat at a restaurant unless you're going to make it rain? Good service and good atmosphere are already supposed to be why I pay inflated prices for my food. To tip for good service is one thing, to tip for what I've already paid for is another, to tip more to carry a dish of seafood than a dish of chicken is just getting bizarre. It was one thing when tips were 10%, but they've gotten out of hand.

The converse of "prices would go up" is that if people really would get fed up with things and stop going to a restaurant, there would be fewer sales. Restaurants need to keep food moving or they start having to throw out food -- if that isn't true where you eat, stop eating in cheap joints that sell frozen burgers. Waste increases overhead, when overhead goes up the restaurant starts cutting corners and staffing is one of the victims. Sales are what keep the store's doors open, poor service doesn't increase sales.

As for the subject of the original post, the receipt shows the prices were edited. American restaurants use odd pricing but the prices on the receipt were even. It isn't clear if the purchase might have been tax exempt; but just as there is no tip, there is also no tax. This was a deal the pizza place hammered out, the service charge could have been (and possibly was) negotiated at that time. Notice the one post above, where a restaurant collected something like $7,000 for service and then gave the service staff $75 each, there is an example of a negotiated deal where the servers got the short end of things.

In America, tips are something paid by the customer to bring the waiter wage up to minimum wage.

No, that's a myth that has sprung up. Read the comments carefully and you'll see things ranging from OP talking about tips buying his car and textbooks to talk about bringing home 500 USD per night on the weekend as a bartender. It is a myth that has been encouraged, because it helps bring in more tips. What happened was that tips were putting service staff well above minimum wage, but that money wasn't reported as income. The IRS wasn't happy about that and they aren't nice folks, it is their job to treat pretty much any benefit as "income" (google some of the stuff that can count) and get their share. At the same time, owners and managers were wondering why they had to pay minimum wage to somebody who was making well over that amount. The result was a predictable mess.

You are right, you are well within your right to stiff the delivery driver, just don't expect that driver to choose your home over other people's homes when presented the option.

You aren't getting stiffed, even if you claim that is just the term you use in that job. You've taken something that was supposed to be a reward for doing something extra and you've turned it around to "depending on tips for their income". For all your talk about not using threats, you keep coming back to things that amount to "grease my palm or you'll get bad service". Gee, I work in Asia, I've never heard that one before. Cut to the bottom line, ditch the car and go full bore pan handler, or enlist. In one case, you're still just making a living from gratuities but you've reduced your overhead. In the other, you have found a job where you don't depend on tips for income and your complaint is resolved.

Just to hit the "I'm the little guy" point before you bring it up, let's remind readers of your other post:

I work as a manager at a small pizza chain. I've been working there for nearly three years now and I feel like I should be making more money then I currently make.

You're 23, doing part time at at a community college, you're years ("a few semesters") away from transferring to a four year institution and at this rate you're going to hit entry level work with a BA at thirty. You have issues beyond tipping that you need to address. You're on you're way to being a delivery driver who can use Maslow to explain why I should tip you.

Pay the tip tightwads, or don't.

Nope, I'm old. I remember when tips were for good service and I count good service as more than being able to find my house. I didn't care about 10% for good service, I am annoyed at 20% being expected for simple things like managing to keep your thumb out of my soup. Earn the tip or choose a different line of work.

[nowish]

explain to me this extrordinary service. a delivery drivers job is to bag the hot pie, put it in his car, drive it to your house, bring it to your door, exchange the goods for money, give you change if appropriate and say good day and leave. what little extras would you like them to do? dance a jig on your doorstep? shine your shoes? as long as the guy is on time and doesnt e-brake into my driveway smashing my car and has everything i order and isnt a dick and polite, i would say thats good enough service to warrent a couple bucks for a tip (even though i pretty much tip 5 every time no matter what, even shitty service i tip a couple bucks)

further more the huge ammount of orders going through a pizza store, even a family joint, is pretty high. if one person complains because its late you get a oh sorry we'll give you a few dollars off next time. nothing comes back on the drivers, EVER, unless you are confrontational with a customer or something obviously.your business would be more or less not even be noticed, expecially at a major chain like i worked at.

Late respons but, I don't expect them to do anything special, that's why I don't expect to freaking tip them. Im just saying that , the only reason if I ever would tip anyone would be if they did something that suprised me in a positive way, and that's just to even consider it. Do you get it now ? And I wouldn't choose a pizza store that treat me badly when there are others just like them... Pizza driver's job is, as you said, to just drive to the house (or where u want it) and deliver it, simple, it's the normal thing he does in his job, why should he get extra payment for something he is obligated to do in his job? Hopefully you understand my PoV now.

[Mormolyce]

Wow 71 pages? Hot button issue, pizza tipping!

I'm a little surprised a school would tip. But if that's the done thing then yeah you got screwed.

[Reverence]

You're 23, doing part time at at a community college, you're years ("a few semesters") away from transferring to a four year institution and at this rate you're going to hit entry level work with a BA at thirty. You have issues beyond tipping that you need to address. You're on you're way to being a delivery driver who can use Maslow to explain why I should tip you.

More like I'm less than a year from transferring. I work as a manager but half of my time is spent as a delivery driver and as such am payed much less than other managers(about $0.50 more than our drivers). So you're wrong on those points. As for your other points they go as followed.

Nope, I'm old. I remember when tips were for good service and I count good service as more than being able to find my house. I didn't care about 10% for good service, I am annoyed at 20% being expected for simple things like managing to keep your thumb out of my soup. Earn the tip or choose a different line of work.

You're old. The word tip is old. The word changed. I don't give a crap about %'s, even on this rather large order i originally posted on. On large orders i don't even bother worrying about %'s because they work i did really isn't worth $130-$260.

You aren't getting stiffed, even if you claim that is just the term you use in that job. You've taken something that was supposed to be a reward for doing something extra and you've turned it around to "depending on tips for their income". For all your talk about not using threats, you keep coming back to things that amount to "grease my palm or you'll get bad service". Gee, I work in Asia, I've never heard that one before. Cut to the bottom line, ditch the car and go full bore pan handler, or enlist. In one case, you're still just making a living from gratuities but you've reduced your overhead. In the other, you have found a job where you don't depend on tips for income and your complaint is resolved.

I don't give bad service to people who don't tip. They are so few in numbers that its no benefit to anyone to give them bad service. That being said, if I take two orders placed at the same time and House A tips and House B doesn't tip then I'd bet my car that I'd go to House A first. Both houses get the same level of service (A smile/"hey how ya doing"/just general small talk) but House A will come first (unless House B is more convenient to go to first).

No, that's a myth that has sprung up. Read the comments carefully and you'll see things ranging from OP talking about tips buying his car and textbooks to talk about bringing home 500 USD per night on the weekend as a bartender. It is a myth that has been encouraged, because it helps bring in more tips. What happened was that tips were putting service staff well above minimum wage, but that money wasn't reported as income. The IRS wasn't happy about that and they aren't nice folks, it is their job to treat pretty much any benefit as "income" (google some of the stuff that can count) and get their share. At the same time, owners and managers were wondering why they had to pay minimum wage to somebody who was making well over that amount. The result was a predictable mess.

The result is the system we have now where the employer pays his servers/drivers less and the cost of your meal is also less. In this system in order to have lower payed employees and cheaper food there is a general understanding between the general consumer and the restaurants that you tip your servers/drivers. That being said i don't blame people for not tipping on bad service.

[Kuthe]

Soooooo basically.
You expect to be paid a tip because you did your job, and you sook when you don't get paid extra to do what's required of you?
I mean, yeah that's cool, you tell me how you went over and beyond your normal workload to deserve a tip?
You took pizza's to the customer. It so happened to be the same customers for a heap of pizzas, so? It's your job, and it's what your being paid for.

So just please explain how you deserve to be paid extra because you did what you have to do in order to have your job in the first place?


I don't even understand how your culture got this whole tip thing started, it's ridiculous. Believing you deserve to be paid extra just because you did what's required of you.

At my work there is a charity jar, any 'tips' we get go into there. I just like how you believe that you deserve extra money instead of it going to an actual good cause such as a charity.

[Reverence]

Soooooo basically.
You expect to be paid a tip because you did your job, and you sook when you don't get paid extra to do what's required of you?
I mean, yeah that's cool, you tell me how you went over and beyond your normal workload to deserve a tip?
You took pizza's to the customer. It so happened to be the same customers for a heap of pizzas, so? It's your job, and it's what your being paid for.

So just please explain how you deserve to be paid extra because you did what you have to do in order to have your job in the first place?


I don't even understand how your culture got this whole tip thing started, it's ridiculous. Believing you deserve to be paid extra just because you did what's required of you.

At my work there is a charity jar, any 'tips' we get go into there. I just like how you believe that you deserve extra money instead of it going to an actual good cause such as a charity.

Because gas isn't free. Hell even maintenance isn't free. And if you want to throw one more thing into the fold, Insurance isn't free. All three of those come out of a delivery drivers pocket. All three of those are also rather expensive in most situations. Going off of your use of the word "culture" I'm going to assume you don't live in America and therefor don't understand the custom of tipping. And while we're on the subject, at your place of business do you use your own car, gas and insurance to complete the task (if the answer is no they you cant compare the two occupations)

EDIT: A lot of people have been saying that employers should cover the costs of those three mentioned necessities. Let me take out the most important word of that last sentence; should. It has no place in a debate such as this because there is nothing to debate about it. There's a lot of things that should happen in life, when does that ever happen?

[Tokru]

in our area restraunts now add the tip to the cost of the bill. pizza places also add cost of gas to the bill as well. i guess they got tired of people not tipping.

Nice, the people in your area have understood how to change this stupid system. I congratulate them (seriously).

[nowish]

Because gas isn't free. Hell even maintenance isn't free. And if you want to throw one more thing into the fold, Insurance isn't free. All three of those come out of a delivery drivers pocket. All three of those are also rather expensive in most situations. Going off of your use of the word "culture" I'm going to assume you don't live in America and therefor don't understand the custom of tipping. And while we're on the subject, at your place of business do you use your own car, gas and insurance to complete the task (if the answer is no they you cant compare the two occupations)

EDIT: A lot of people have been saying that employers should cover the costs of those three mentioned necessities. Let me take out the most important word of that last sentence; should. It has no place in a debate such as this because there is nothing to debate about it. There's a lot of things that should happen in life, when does that ever happen?

People has said that the customer "should" tip as well, same logic people use when they say that the employer "should" cover it.

Im just wondering, maybe it makes no sense, but all the delivery guys in movies and such (yea I know they are just movies, but maybe some truth to it) use a moped or a lighter veichle than a car, ever considered that? Im sure that would be cheaper for you to maintane (spelling?) and in return give you more cash to spend on other things, or am I completely wrong? Just because you decide to have a job which require you to pay for your own gas etc. doesn't mean u can't change things around to make it more convenient for you? If your wage as it is, isn't enough to keep up with your quality of life, maybe something need to change?

It really baffles me how people can even defend and be jerks to the people who refuse to tip, "on such a large order , they should really tip". Why on earth would they? they already spent shitloads of money on that order already.