France to turn off shop lights at night

[Deleted]

I think this is an interesting subject because it shows how much waste is done by shops in a country the size of France. 750k households could be powered by the light shops use to be lighted when nobody is there. What a waste... if only other countries would follow France's model. Well done France.


http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...90T0HH20130130

"(Reuters) - French shops and office buildings will have to turn off their lights at night to save energy and reduce light pollution, the French environment ministry said on Wednesday.

From July 1, all non-residential buildings will have to switch off interior lights one hour after the last worker leaves the premises. All exterior and shop window lighting will have to be turned off by 1 am.

Local authorities will be able to allow exceptions for Christmas lighting and other local events.

The new law will save about two terawatt/hours of electricity a year - the equivalent of the annual consumption of 750,000 households, the ministry said.

Environment Minister Delphine Batho said it would also make France a pioneer in Europe in preventing light pollution, which disrupts ecosystems and people's sleep patterns.

(Reporting by Geert De Clercq; Editing by Pravin Char)"

[Rocko9]

Huh, you'd figure they would turn them off anyways to save on the power bill

[Deleted]

Huh, you'd figure they would turn them off anyways to save on the power bill

Actually, in most big towns shops leave lights on during the entire night to "show off their goods from the window". And it's a horrible waste.

[Mihalik]

Logic would say that you would turn lights off to save money on the power bill.

But as with everything else often other factors need to be taken into consideration. Buisnesses often leave lights on for publicity reasons or for security reasons.

To be honest I would like to see this become a European and then hopefully global standard. If your are not conducting buisness you need the turn the lights off.

As long as this doesn't turn into some wierd push to regulate opening hours.

[Rocko9]

Actually, in most big towns shops leave lights on during the entire night to "show off their goods from the window". And it's a horrible waste.

Odd, alot of places turn the power off here. That's also to say that we have alot of strip malls, meaning there are only windows at the front of their suite.

To be honest I would like to see this become a European and then hopefully global standard. If your are not conducting buisness you need the turn the lights off.

But what if they keep up on paying the bill?

[PizzaSHARK]

Actually, in most big towns shops leave lights on during the entire night to "show off their goods from the window". And it's a horrible waste.

It's not just that, it's also for deterring theft. If you can clearly see the inside of the store or building, it's much easier to notice someone wandering around in there well past closing time.

[v2prwsmb45yhuq3wj23vpjk]

It's not just that, it's also for deterring theft. If you can clearly see the inside of the store or building, it's much easier to notice someone wandering around in there well past closing time.

Stores have alarms. It's not a coincidence that all of the lights are on the products and not the register or backroom areas.

[Mihalik]

But what if they keep up on paying the bill?

It's not about paying the bills. It's about light polution and about how much power generation is wasted this way. Just because you can pay for it, it's not by all means a smart idea to do it. That power needs to be generated somewhere, and a huge chunk of it is generated by burning fossil fuels, further polluting.

By the way. If you live in a big city, when was it that you last seen more then a couple of dozen stars in the sky?

Even if you completly ignore the ecological concern, just think about economic aspects such as reducing dependance on energy imports.

[Deleted]

But what if they keep up on paying the bill?

Good question, was hoping someone would put that up.

So, shops, in France since for my country I don't know how much would be saved, waste the equivalent of 750k households of electricity per year.
Now let's think what this means. It means that the power plants and such need to produce more power. For what? Well, preety lights, if you pass by my shop, you may see what's inside. So... for very limited publicity.

Now, what happens when power plants need to produce more power? Well depends on type of power, France isn't yet known for clean power so much, so I can assume they burn more fossil fuels, build more power plants and so on. So what happens now, from the electricity provider? Well, since more electricity is used, they need more money, to build power plants, to get the fossil fuels and to get their profit. So what is there to do? Increase the cost of electricity. For whom? For everyone.

So, preety lights in a shop get this:
-waste of resources from everyone
-an increase in electricity cost for everyone.

It doesn't seem like a nice thing, does it? And for what? So that those few people that live with the owls outdoors can see their goods in the window?

---------- Post added 2013-02-02 at 03:46 PM ----------

It's not just that, it's also for deterring theft. If you can clearly see the inside of the store or building, it's much easier to notice someone wandering around in there well past closing time.

Ok, I walk on the street and see someone at night in a shop. One of the following three things can happen:
1. I call the police, it's not a thief, I get a fee because I put the police on the run without a use.
2. I call the police, it is a thief, but the police are slow as snails at night (where I live) so they don't catch him. My description doesn't help since there's no database anywhere.
3. I think it's an employee and go my merry way.

Which do you think I'll chose?

As for lights so cameras can see the crooks? I heard of these motion sensor lights that turn on when you walk in them, how about that? They're not even that expensive, I bet 2 of those cost less then the cost of the electricity wasted each night.

[Sanctioned]

I like this and support it. Now if we can get everywhere to stop having open refrigerator sections. A lot of deli sections have sections where they have a bunch of refrigerated stuff that is cooled but not closed off. Tired of seeing that crap.

[Deleted]

It's not about paying the bills. It's about light pollution and about how much power generation is wasted this way. Just because you can pay for it, it's not by all means a smart idea to do it. That power needs to be generated somewhere, and a huge chunk of it is generated by burning fossil fuels, further polluting.

By the way. If you live in a big city, when was it that you last seen more then a couple of dozen stars in the sky?

Even if you completely ignore the ecological concern, just think about economic aspects such as reducing dependance on energy imports.

Exactly! You got the problem.

---------- Post added 2013-02-02 at 03:49 PM ----------

I like this and support it. Now if we can get everywhere to stop having open refrigerator sections. A lot of deli sections have sections where they have a bunch of refrigerated stuff that is cooled but not closed off. Tired of seeing that crap.

Alas, of those I don't know, here, even in supermarkets they have some little doors made of plastic that you open, grab your goods, and close. I did see a shop once that had a giant open freezer section, but that was an exception.

[Rocko9]

I understand y'all's point, but if someone can pay for the power, I don't see why they shouldn't be able to use it as they want, so long as it's legal.

By the way. If you live in a big city, when was it that you last seen more then a couple of dozen stars in the sky?

I live outside beltway 8 (beltway is rougly 20 miles outside downtown Houston), we get plenty of stars.

[Deleted]

Good question, was hoping someone would put that up.

So, shops, in France since for my country I don't know how much would be saved, waste the equivalent of 750k households of electricity per year.
Now let's think what this means. It means that the power plants and such need to produce more power. For what? Well, preety lights, if you pass by my shop, you may see what's inside. So... for very limited publicity.

Now, what happens when power plants need to produce more power? Well depends on type of power, France isn't yet known for clean power so much, so I can assume they burn more fossil fuels, build more power plants and so on. So what happens now, from the electricity provider? Well, since more electricity is used, they need more money, to build power plants, to get the fossil fuels and to get their profit. So what is there to do? Increase the cost of electricity. For whom? For everyone.

Erm, http://files.gereports.com/wp-conten...1/02/tenlg.jpg

[Vodalos]

Erm, http://files.gereports.com/wp-conten...1/02/tenlg.jpg

It's important to know that in France 77.7% of the energy produced is nuclear (in 2011)
The part of fossil fuel is 9.5% (coal : 2.5%, fioul : 1.5%, gaz : 2.5%)

source : http://www.rte-france.com/uploads/Me...rique_2011.pdf

[Shâréz]

Good. I approve of this. They should do that here in The Netherlands as well.

However I fear people would just ignore it and keep it on regardless. There are rules here that greenhouses have to cover the sides and tops of the greenhouse during certain hours to prevent light pollution (which can be pretty damn bad with greenhouses). I live in an area that has a lot of greenhouses, and the majority of them don't cover up the roof during the night. They simply do not seem to give a shit.

[Kraenen]

Odd, alot of places turn the power off here. That's also to say that we have alot of strip malls, meaning there are only windows at the front of their suite.



But what if they keep up on paying the bill?

The bill doesn't pay for the wasted electricity.

[Lothaeryn]

Actually, in most big towns shops leave lights on during the entire night to "show off their goods from the window". And it's a horrible waste.

I think most stores keep lights on for Security reasons, mainly because their stores aren't equipped with Nightvision camera systems, and their regular security cameras still need a source of light to record the image of trespassers.

I still like the idea and it would be very beneficial on the overall scale, but there are complications to it, don't be too surprised if you see an increase in Burglary or theft after this.

[Deleted]

Actually, in most big towns shops leave lights on during the entire night to "show off their goods from the window". And it's a horrible waste.

It's not horrible waste any more than marketing is. I know the stores I've worked for also kept them on to discourage theft.

If the companies thought they could increase profitability by turning off lights, they would. So no, it's not waste.


If you think light pollution is a problem, then this might make sense. I personally enjoy lots of lights on in cities during nighttime. All in all, France is digging their grave a couple centimeters deeper.

[Deleted]

I understand y'all's point, but if someone can pay for the power, I don't see why they shouldn't be able to use it as they want, so long as it's legal.

Ok, you didn't get the long explanation, so here's the short one: resources are limited and more power used means companies increase the cost of electricity for everyone. That means for me and you too. Not only the shops.

Erm, http://files.gereports.com/wp-conten...1/02/tenlg.jpg

I was wrong, you're right. Thanks for pointing that out.

I'm confused, isn't that not the default in most places? Everything is pitch black here after 9pm except for the gas station which is open 24/7.
Seems an awful waste to keep the lights on when nobody's there. Good call, France!

Not everywhere. In the more ... select towns of the world it's not.

I think most stores keep lights on for Security reasons, mainly because their stores aren't equipped with Nightvision camera systems, and their regular security cameras still need a source of light to record the image of trespassers.

I still like the idea and it would be very beneficial on the overall scale, but there are complications to it, don't be too surprised if you see an increase in Burglary or theft after this.

Lights that have motion sensors are easy to find and quite cheap. My neighbour has one, whenever one of my cats passes under it, it lights. Simple. Also alarms exist too.

It's not horrible waste any more than marketing is. I know the stores I've worked for also kept them on to discourage theft.

If the companies thought they could increase profitability by turning off lights, they would. So no, it's not waste.


If you think light pollution is a problem, then this might make sense. I personally enjoy lots of lights on in cities during nighttime. All in all, France is digging their grave a couple centimeters deeper.

They could try putting those stickers with "this property is protected by X Security" or something instead, they work better.

And France is doing fine. Though I don't like some of their policies, this one is great. And they are still doing good per total.

[Sam the Wiser]

Good for France. Always good to have less pollution.