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  1. #1361
    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    First, in say grocery store, its all logged you know who works how long where and such. And grocery store is also a type of service (doubt you tip there, right?). However because the boss is also working in the pub, and if the boss notices a waiter who's slacking, why even attempt to do that?
    I've worked at a grocery store too. We did get tips once in a while but we were told to refuse them. In the bosses eye he was paying you a proper wage and a tip was insulting him. Restaurant owners do not feel the same way.

    Also, you would be surprised what most bosses don't notice in terms of how hard employees work.

    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    Wow really you did? Awesome. If you'd do that here and your boss would find that out, you'd be fired.
    Mine thought it was awesome.

    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    If customer would know about it, you could get successfully sued (and they don't really do much plea bargin in Europe).
    Wanna know why? It is against privacy law to record customer data like that. You're not allowed to process it either. Only for purpose strictly related to your job. Now I know your country doesn't take privacy always very strict so I don't know how its there with the privacy laws ...
    Yeah that isn't illegal here. Also it is related to the job.

    Customers might not like it because we referred to their homes as trailer parks.

    Edit: Crap, just remembered. Apparently my old store switched to a different POS system and all that data was lost

    I'm sure the individual drivers still keep track of who tips and doesn't.
    Last edited by Extrazero8; 2013-01-21 at 10:02 PM.

  2. #1362
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    I'd say the employees have more power in a system where the know the customer isn't going to be able to penalize or reward them.
    Isn't that what tips are at their core, a penalty/reward system?

    But here it'd be more like, you don't like it boy? Go run your own place.

    I find it really hard to believe you frequent bars. It's not like you walk up and slap the bar and say, "first!". People walk up, frequently arrive at the same time while others are being served, and you have sort of a fake place in nonexistant line. The priority is always going to go to the guy that's not tight with cash; this is pretty well known in the States, I don't really get why people are arguing it.
    ..not frequent bars.. hahaha, mate, pretty soon the whole city here has pubs open 24/7 with people running on the street completely drunk with clothes you can't imagine. All that for week+. Its called carnaval.

    Tho I prefer wine lets say I'm up for a beer. Pubs are pretty expensive (carnaval is my major yearly exception), and some good German beer on sale in a crate or cans is much, much cheaper and I know exactly what I'm drinking and its according to German purity law.

    Anyway... pubs... I'm well aware of the nonexistant line. But I'm also well aware that, even with my perhaps limited pub experience, customers will complain if treated unfairly. So yes, Spectral you can give a regular customer, or your tip-suspect, priority once and I won't say shit, people make mistakes, etc. But if such thing happens again you'll hear me complain and if you don't bring up some damn good reason you lost a customer and you got yourself some drama in your pub. And that's the thing here. You don't wanna piss off half drunk customers. You wanna treat 'em with respect. If you don't, your boss easily has another gorgeous waitress working for him.

  3. #1363
    150 pizzas worth 1300$ and not giving a single penny as a tip? Seems wrong to me, I understand if it was 1-10 and not giving tip, that would be fine. But 150 and not a SINGLE penny? Like common... Imagine how many trips this guy must have done to deliver them, Gas is expensive in the USA. They could spend 1300$ but not a single dollar or penny for the driver at least? Its like Running Raids in WoW for like 2 months and not getting a single item. It wouldn't hurt to spend an extra 1$.

  4. #1364
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Extrazero8 View Post
    Also, you would be surprised what most bosses don't notice in terms of how hard employees work.
    Then they're shit bosses living in a reality distortion field. A good boss takes note of his employees, but also, sometimes they trust the employee and give them some temporary liberty. Still he should realize you work for him and not for yourself which means he must keep the checks and balances. Your problem is easily fixed: talk to him, switch to another, or start your own business. Speaking from experience here. If your boss doesn't recognize how hard you're working its time to look for another job.

    Mine thought it was awesome.
    Clearly in the land of the free the customer isn't king, he has to bribe the waiter.

    Yeah that isn't illegal here.
    One more reason not to have your data served by an American cloud.

    Also it is related to the job.
    No its not. You wouldn't get away with that. Did the customer ask you to use that? Is it strictly used to serve him a correct deliverty? Nope.

    Customers might not like it because we referred to their homes as trailer parks.
    Yeah, but not in their face, and yet here if a customer wants to, they can ask a company "please show me all the personal data you have gathered about me" and you know what? They have to comply. Hard to fathom, isn't it.

    Either way, thanks for the chat, I am more glad than ever I live on this side of the pond.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-21 at 11:28 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Damdwarf View Post
    150 pizzas worth 1300$ and not giving a single penny as a tip? Seems wrong to me, I understand if it was 1-10 and not giving tip, that would be fine. But 150 and not a SINGLE penny? Like common... Imagine how many trips this guy must have done to deliver them, Gas is expensive in the USA. They could spend 1300$ but not a single dollar or penny for the driver at least? Its like Running Raids in WoW for like 2 months and not getting a single item. It wouldn't hurt to spend an extra 1$.
    Btw we don't even know if this was a bulk/volume discount or a deal they made with the boss or anything like it. We just don't know the details. Does OP even know them, another good question..

  5. #1365
    Btw we don't even know if this was a bulk/volume discount or a deal they made with the boss or anything like it. We just don't know the details. Does OP even know them, another good question..
    Good point...more than possible the customer thought tip was included (but should have found out for certain). Although it is also equally possible that the customer KNEW tip wasn't included, but just didn't give a crap.

    Also possible is that OP's boss pocketed the "tip", which is hidden in the receipt edits. Happens often, restaurant mangers are shady as hell.

    Example: Worst restaurant job I ever had--high end Italian restaurant, Zagat rated and on top 10 lists for the city, whole thing. Boss was a total asshole to staff. Yelling, screaming at busboys, back of house staff, spent most of his time at work chatting up the 20 year olds he was somehow dating at the age of 50 something (yes he was dating more than one at once). Had a prix fixe event with 9 courses including wine pairings that was a low price for that place, $175 per person, automatic $35 gratuity added per person. 5 waitstaff, 2 bussers to pool tips and divide evenly, boss was to collect monies and divide tips.

    We had at least 200 people come in that night, and that is a conservative estimate. Worked our asses off, helped with cleanup and dishwashing til 3 am. 200 ppl x 35 gratuity = $7,000 in tips, to be divided between 7 people.

    Next day we come in for our tips, hands each of us $75. This was in a state where you made $3 an hour on top of your tips, no full minimum wage state like California, and we had worked around 14 hours that day doing setup and cleanup. And restaurant work is hard work.

    Probably could have sued but this was the most beaten-down group of servers I had ever seen and the industry just sucks sometimes.

    Story had a happy ending though, ended up getting a great bartending gig my last year of college downtown and was walking with a minimum of $500 a night on weekends. Bartending is underrated as a profession, you can make a lot of money doing it and it can be fun work.

  6. #1366
    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    Then they're shit bosses living in a reality distortion field. A good boss takes note of his employees, but also, sometimes they trust the employee and give them some temporary liberty. Still he should realize you work for him and not for yourself which means he must keep the checks and balances. Your problem is easily fixed: talk to him, switch to another, or start your own business. Speaking from experience here. If your boss doesn't recognize how hard you're working its time to look for another job.
    The employee does work for the owner. However the owner supplements the employee's pay with customer tips. The owner knows how this goes. No tips means more cost on every order.

    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    Clearly in the land of the free the customer isn't king, he has to bribe the waiter.
    In the land of the free the customer is expected to pay for the service they are getting. If they are ordering to-go then they don't pay for that service.

    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    One more reason not to have your data served by an American cloud.
    I'm sure they have to follow any laws of the local government.

    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    No its not. You wouldn't get away with that. Did the customer ask you to use that? Is it strictly used to serve him a correct delivery? Nope.
    Sure it is. The guy at 145 Main St. likes red pepper with their order and doesn't tip. It would be a little weird to also note they like Cat Fancy Magazine.

    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    Yeah, but not in their face, and yet here if a customer wants to, they can ask a company "please show me all the personal data you have gathered about me" and you know what? They have to comply. Hard to fathom, isn't it.
    I've never been asked that. I don't know if a company here has an obligation to provide you with that info. I might be wrong.

  7. #1367
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Extrazero8 View Post
    In the land of the free the customer is expected to pay for the service they are getting. If they are ordering to-go then they don't pay for that service.
    They do with both the price of their order and the extra delivery fee. A tip isn't payment because its a tip. A bonus, an extra. It isn't part of the service fee because the service is what the company charges the customer for the delivery. The tip is what the customers decides to give you for performing your job. It could be 0, it could be five dollars, it could be a percentage.

    At no time is the tip payment for the service. Besides if I am paying for the service of Delivery I wouldn't pay you personally because I am asking for the company to deliver it. Who they choose to delivery is on them and not my responsibility. So if you really want tips to be the service fee you would have to give all of your tips over to your company. Which isn't something you'd be willing to do and would defeat the whole purpose of the tip.
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  8. #1368
    Theres a big crossroads for me with tips. On one hand, tipping 15% is a guideline-- its too low and too high. If I'm buying a 2.50$ item and someone has to drive to me, giving them a 37c tip doesnt seem appropriate. On the other hand, If me and two friends order 80$ worth of food that involves three items easily carried by one person, tipping 12$ seems overkill. I usually just try to factor in how much effort it took the delivery guy, 3$ a trip in my eyes seems to be the sweet spot.

  9. #1369
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    They do with both the price of their order and the extra delivery fee.
    The delivery fee is just a fee the company changes the customer to off set the raising cost of food. Your driver is lucky to get 50% of it and more than likely only gets about 35%.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    A tip isn't payment because its a tip. A bonus, an extra.
    A tip is actually a service fee. That is normally about 10-15% of your bill. A bonus or extra would be 15-20% of the bill.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    It isn't part of the service fee because the service is what the company charges the customer for the delivery. The tip is what the customers decides to give you for performing your job. It could be 0, it could be five dollars, it could be a percentage.
    If that were true then the entire amount would go to the staff. The staff doesn't even get half of it. When you order delivery, and there is a "delivery fee", your subsidizing carry out customer's orders.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    At no time is the tip payment for the service. Besides if I am paying for the service of Delivery I wouldn't pay you personally because I am asking for the company to deliver it. Who they choose to delivery is on them and not my responsibility. So if you really want tips to be the service fee you would have to give all of your tips over to your company. Which isn't something you'd be willing to do and would defeat the whole purpose of the tip.
    Think what ever you want. I just ordered a pizza and the girl on the phone said it would take about 45min. I got it in 25min and gave the guy $7.

    Enjoy the back of the line.

  10. #1370
    Think what ever you want. I just ordered a pizza and the girl on the phone said it would take about 45min. I got it in 25min and gave the guy $7.

    Enjoy the back of the line.
    A lot of times 45 minutes or w/e is their standard time they give to all customers when its not busy. But yeah he should enjoy the back of the line.

  11. #1371
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Extrazero8 View Post
    A tip is actually a service fee. That is normally about 10-15% of your bill. A bonus or extra would be 15-20% of the bill.
    That makes no sense. If I give you 5-10% more it is a tip. If I give you 5-10% less it is a service fee? You can't have it both ways either it is a tip or it is a service fee. The actual amount matters little. You the server, or delivery person, don't get to set what I pay you. It isn't a fee I am paying you unless you are the one setting a specific amount.

    If that were true then the entire amount would go to the staff. The staff doesn't even get half of it. When you order delivery, and there is a "delivery fee", your subsidizing carry out customer's orders.
    So the customer is to blame because your boss isn't using a delivery fee for what it should be? The customer is the one that enables you to have a delivery job in the first place. If no one asked for delivery you wouldn't have a job. It is the responsibility of your boss to pay you and if they don't then it is them at fault. It is an extra and bonus of your job that you can also get tipped.
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  12. #1372
    Quote Originally Posted by Dalent1989 View Post
    A lot of times 45 minutes or w/e is their standard time they give to all customers when its not busy. But yeah he should enjoy the back of the line.
    30min is the standard here. 45min means they are busy but are staffed correctly. 1hour means they are very busy and/or low staffed.

  13. #1373
    Quote Originally Posted by Extrazero8 View Post
    Think what ever you want. I just ordered a pizza and the girl on the phone said it would take about 45min. I got it in 25min and gave the guy $7.
    25 minutes is kinda slow.

    Plus, the cooks don't give a fuck what the driver gets tipped.
    They can dynamite Devil Reef, but that will bring no relief, Y'ha-nthlei is deeper than they know.

  14. #1374
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalent1989 View Post
    A lot of times 45 minutes or w/e is their standard time they give to all customers when its not busy. But yeah he should enjoy the back of the line.
    So if you put me at the back of the line, why do you then deserve a tip when you show up at my door? You treated me poorly and less then you treated everyone else, why do you get a tip? All I keep seeing from supporters of mandatory required tipping is selfishness. Because no one wants to put any responsibility on the server or the delivery person and always blame the customer no matter what. And even state how they purposefully treat them poorly next time yet still demand tips.

    Perhaps thats why you don't get a tip? Because you treated them poorly, or you spread the word to your friends about them and they then treated them poorly. If you want tips you can't act like a cry baby and rage when you don't get a tip. Because it only shows how you really didn't deserve one in the first place.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  15. #1375
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    That makes no sense. If I give you 5-10% more it is a tip. If I give you 5-10% less it is a service fee? You can't have it both ways either it is a tip or it is a service fee.
    The first 10-15% is the service fee, that's your base amount for the service. The extra 5-10% is the tip.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    The actual amount matters little. You the server, or delivery person, don't get to set what I pay you. It isn't a fee I am paying you unless you are the one setting a specific amount.
    That's fine. There will be people with higher priority than you and if you're ok with that then there isn't an issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    So the customer is to blame because your boss isn't using a delivery fee for what it should be? The customer is the one that enables you to have a delivery job in the first place. If no one asked for delivery you wouldn't have a job. It is the responsibility of your boss to pay you and if they don't then it is them at fault. It is an extra and bonus of your job that you can also get tipped.
    If you don't like it why don't you just go pick up the food on your own? You're not entitled to delivery so why do you think you should get it for free?

  16. #1376
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Extrazero8 View Post
    The first 10-15% is the service fee, that's your base amount for the service. The extra 5-10% is the tip.
    Then why can I leave 0 as a tip and not be charged anything? It isn't a service fee because I am not liable to pay it.



    If you don't like it why don't you just go pick up the food on your own? You're not entitled to delivery so why do you think you should get it for free?
    I'm not getting it for free. The place I ordered from charged a delivery fee in order for it to be delivered. A tip isn't paying for the delivery because I can give you 0 and get it for free anyways. The tip is a tip. Why do you feel entitled for something extra for doing the job I've paid your boss for you to do?

    If it is the fee for delivery then why do you still give me the pizza when I don't tip? What would happen if you refuse to give me the pizza when I refuse to give you your "fee"? After all I don't pay you to deliver it why are you still delivering it to me?
    Last edited by rhorle; 2013-01-22 at 01:21 AM.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  17. #1377
    Tip, it seems people forget what this means these days. It is not mandatory so why would you act like it is? Sure, I tip because I'm like that but some people are hardasses and that's just who they are. Complaining that they didn't tip is stupid imo.

  18. #1378
    Quote Originally Posted by Extrazero8 View Post
    30min is the standard here. 45min means they are busy but are staffed correctly. 1hour means they are very busy and/or low staffed.
    Geneerally the driver is only a small portion of customers getting pizza in a timely manner. So many other factors.

    i think we can make this a 100 page thread...we just need someone to stir things up. I'll start!

    Tipping is mandatory! It is my god given right to be tipped when i deliver your pizza!

    NOW FIGHT!
    Get a grip man! It's CHEESE!

  19. #1379
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    I see a lot of the same people refusing to understand or maybe just accept what has been laid out to them in plain English within the last 70 pages of this thread. Maybe their grasp of plain English is kind of impaired, or maybe their moral compass is just out of whack.

    Ignorance of how the system works is excusable. Deliberate ignorance of how the system works after it's been explained to you in plain English is just a stubborn self-righteous entitlement.

    In America, tips are something paid by the customer to bring the waiter wage up to minimum wage. Bigger tips are an indication of better service, it is technically optional but it considered cheap, rude, and greedy, and for some odd reason people will find reason to defend their cheap and greedy nature. In other countries, a tip is a voluntary bonus given for exceptional service. The waiter fee is already rolled in to the price of your food.

    Pizza delivery is somewhat different in that the "tip" goes to pay for gas, wear and tear on the vehicle, insurance, etc. all that stuff you would have normally paid taking a trip down to your pizza parlor and picking it up yourself. If you refuse to pay a tip to your driver, you're basically saying "hey thanks for spending your gas and mileage on your car to get my food to me, now here's a middle finger!"

    I am in no way defending the American system, I think it's rather silly. It's based in capitalistic greed, allowing restaurants to pay their employee less and expecting the customer to make up for it. If you are a Euro or an American that simply refuses to accept that the culture is the way it is then you aren't being avant garde, edgy, smart or clever. You're just being greedy and rude.
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  20. #1380
    Quote Originally Posted by Aleros View Post

    Pizza delivery is somewhat different in that the "tip" goes to pay for gas, wear and tear on the vehicle, insurance, etc. all that stuff you would have normally paid taking a trip down to your pizza parlor and picking it up yourself. If you refuse to pay a tip to your driver, you're basically saying "hey thanks for spending your gas and mileage on your car to get my food to me, now here's a middle finger!"
    This is true, but people should and do understand that though really good for the driver/waiter, tips are still optional.Tip if you want. I may be kind of frustrated when I get stiffed, but the next guy who tips me completely makes me not think about the stiff. Tip or not...society will still tip as a hole and we will still make good money.
    Get a grip man! It's CHEESE!

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