[Frost/Unholy PvP] What is REALLY up with these specs?

[Tyrean]

Yeah, frost's big thing is the burst it can do and the reason so many have played it this season is because burst is king. You can mongoloid with a warrior and just blow something up out of the gate and that is just really sad state of arena. Hopefully blizzard will get it sorted out and the arena games will last longer and specs like unholy can shine.

Honestly though, the real problem with frost will probably not be as big with the warrior changes. You could train a frost dk because they are somewhat squishy but you could not train a warrior. Now the warrior will be a better train target and frost may have some uptime without having to play defensive.

Really, DKs in general need some sort of CC. I know we have grips and strang (1 minute yay! now how about no rune cost?) But every other class has either some sort of spammable CC or short CD stuns. Dks got nothing but damage, and sometimes it is not enough.

EDIT: Oh, and I did not know ghoul was off GCD now. It did not used to be that way, I will have to change macros to reflect that since I do play frost sometimes depending on who I am helping. Thank you.

[forwards1ca]

My dk was 2450 this season in rbgsbefore I tanked my rating tryign to help a couple friends get their CR up, so I think I know the dk just a little bit. Dk's definitely have low survivability in arenas, mostly due to the fact they have limited survivability cd's and they get focused immdiately. IBF is a joke as a defensive CD and its a 20% damage reduction. Sitting in blood presence doesn't really help much becasue your damage drops a ton and death strike healing is a complete joke. Add to that your RP generation is almost nonexistent so you cant get runes up, and youre one dead dk.

you can do very well in a bg, depending on who you have with you. Dks are definitely the anti-caster class, and I usually laugh at most spriests, ele shammies, locks and some mages. Where you will have a serious probelm is against hunter and warriors, and some rogues. As a t2 dk with 90% upgraded mal, and 65%+ resil, i get destroyed by warriors and hunters. Die by the sword + reck bomb + avatar = one dead dk. Stampede + lynx rush/blink strike + one more cd (cant remember name atm) = dead hunter. Add to that the endless kiting ability they have with concussive shot and roots from the pet and hunters are a dks nightmare. Rogues can be a problem, mainly due to dismantle and shadow blades, btu its vert situational. Same with enh shammies. Ret pallies are mostly free hks as you open with strang and they cant do shit.

As for the survivability discussion, the tools they have to live are exactly the same. where the difference is is in how you do your damage. Frost has to be in your face whereas unholy can kite like a pro while sustaining dps. So they survivability is the same, its just that UH can kill things while running away and frost can't.

As for fancy things, the dk style is relatively easy to learn, but difficult to master. It's true, you can run around spammign HB and see tons of damage, but the real skill lies in using your cds properly and timing your burst properly. One of the great things you can try to do is time dark sim to steal a pallies bubble. Specifically stealing a spell with dark sim is very hard...its so goddamn random. And skilled players will see dark sim on you and cast something like arcane brilliance or a buff spell and make you waste it. other times you'll get a spell liek deep freeze or unleash elements which you can't use, and will sit there till the cd goes away. but you can get awesome things like ice barrier, ice block, fear, hex, and pally bubble.

I wouldn't say I get globalled a lot, but dks are very gear dependent to survive. As frost, with t2 and full mal (most upgraded), i sit at arount 390k hp unbuffed, 405k with stam buff.If you have a decent pocket healer, you're nigh unkillable. But if you get focused, you can die pretty quickly.

As fo rglyphs, I strongly recommend glyph on AMS, glyph of dark sim, and glyph of icy touch. Theres nothing better than removing all of a druids hots, or dropping a priests bubble or a mages ice barrier. Icy touch glyph is mandatory for any decent dk pvper imo. I definitely wouldn't recommend UH until 5.2 hits live...its a pain with left over frost runes and it can be very clunky to play, and the burst is not great. The AoE pressure is amazing, but you will nto get very many kills as UH. It is true that you'll do way more damage as UH in a bg (i have easily brokes 30 milliion in a AB) but it's all AoE damage from your diseases. Way more single target damage and kills as frost.

I absolutely love my fdk right now. There's things that really piss me off, but they're more about pvp being broken than problems with the dk. I really am looking forward to the UH changes and can't wait to try it out.

---------- Post added 2013-02-03 at 11:29 AM ----------

Dude i play feral and dk on live, with both full glad gear. what you say is just not true! The problem just is you may lack gear and don't know how to play a feral. You have to use your 3 min burst with ravage, your bleeds and Cyclone. Frost dks do not stand a single chance, actually i duelled my fdk arena mate and he always drops dead after a few secs. How will 20k blasts kill a feral? The selfheal can crit for retarded amounts too. Do you take the gylph that gives 20%+ healing in catform? You can kite the dk easily as a druid and make him bleed to death too if your mastery and you ability to kite is high enough.

Either way, learn to play your feral or just play a fdk 2 button spec. I would have understand you if you had problems with an uh dk though. But fdks are just way too easy to burst and kite, its just ridiculous. And makes me think fdk is just designed to be a pve class. Not impressed by cleave dmg that won't contribute to a kill. If you decide to play a fdk, get prepared to be killed by almost all melee specs in the game, if your support from mates is lacking. If you want to be dangerous for everyone play the uh dk, but be warned he is not easier to play than a feral.

Glyphs are situational, you take those that back up your playstyle. In arenas just check the high ladder dks.

This guy is just a complete moron. Whiel I will agree that ferals can be a very hard kill target, what he claims is very far formt he truth. UH is not dangerous to everyone due to sub-par burst. Fdks do not instantly drop to every melee class out there...really depends on the player. The only melee class that is almost a guaranteed dk killer is a warrior, and thats due to class mechanics. And any idiot fdk who spams HB deserves to die to an idiot liek this guy. There is WAY more to playign a fdk well than spamming 2 buttons. Anyoen who says otherwise is either retarded or trolling. In short, this guy is an idiot and you shoudl ignore just about everythign he says. As for arena glyphs, it's really situational depending on the other comp. I switch out glyhs and talents almost every single match depending on comp. Melee comp - shifting presences, IBF, death grip range with remorseless winter. caster cleaves - AMS, dark sim and either strang or grip depending on comp, with desecrated ground (again depending on comp).