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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by seije View Post
    question: are the goblins actually getting paid? Or is garrosh simply piling up a debt he has no intention of honoring? It's been a while since i've played the low level horde quests, but i seem to remember one involving approaching the goblins building catapults near the aszhara entrance, and roughing em up a bit. I also seem to remember something in the quest text about garrosh refusing to pay them if they didn't do the job to his satisfaction. Something else to keep in mind, Gallywix is mysteriously MIA. whose to say that garrosh doesn't have him hidden somewhere and is threatening him if he doesn't issue orders to keep the goblins in line?

    I'm not saying the goblins wouldn't side with garrosh, but i am saying they certainly won't if they don't expect to get paid.

    as for sylvannas, I think it makes sense for her to fight against garrosh, even if it results in a weaker horde. As someone else stated earlier, a weaker horde might be more reliant on dirty tactics, such as her undead plague- or, a weaker horde may not be able to stop her from using the plague. Keep in mind, the less in the pie, the bigger the slice. And lastly, whose to say the horde will actually be weaker, come the end of this rebellion? war = death. abracadabra, all the previously hostile orcs that were Garrosh's are now Sylvannas's to control. Any other fallen horde or alliance could meet the same end. If she's smart about things, she could see a massive population swing in her favor. seems to me that sylvannas has very much to gain from a civil war backed by alliance interests.
    Yup exactly.

    Yeah because resurrecting the entirety of the dead is going to be fine with Azeroth right? Lol please just think about it, I can already see it, she does that and the Ebon Blade and Argent Dawn will be on her ass like she was the new Lich King.
    I think this is what Sylvanas' story is leading up to anyway, along with her making a power grab somewhere down the line. Her downfall will be interesting to say the least.

  2. #102
    Banned GennGreymane's Avatar
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    when does sylv have respect for thrall? she seems to care about no 1 but her self

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Wollveren View Post
    Yeah because resurrecting the entirety of the dead is going to be fine with Azeroth right? Lol please just think about it, I can already see it, she does that and the Ebon Blade and Argent Dawn will be on her ass like she was the new Lich King. She isn't that dumb to just raise all the Horde and casually be accepted by all other races, if she does that, she basically dooms herself to eternal damnation.
    Oh yeah, i'm sure she'd have it done right where everyone was watching. Seriously though. She's getting corpses from all sorts of places to add to her army, and no one has stepped in yet except Garrosh. Garrosh is the only one that has actively tried to stop her from raising more undead.

    I want to remind you that the Goblins are STRONGLY Orc sided, they really have NO other place in the whole Horde, they fit NO where. Regardless if they get paid or not, their home is in Orgrimmar and Azhara, and their only friends in the Horde (and supporters) are the Orcs.
    Thrall was the one who invited them to the horde, not Garrosh. IF they are loyal to any faction of orcs, it would be the ones following Thrall. But as i said, they are most likely loyal to their pocketbook, and I haven't seen anywhere in the lore that they've gotten paid. if they have, please do correct me.

    Regardless if they get paid or not, I really don't see the Elves, Trolls or Tauren paying them.
    You don't see the more noble, sensible faction leaders repaying a debt? Or at the very least, you'd see them work for free- be slaves- to garrosh? All goblins throughout Warcraft have been more of privateers than anything else. this one goblin cartel joined with the horde because the alliance sunk their escape ship. If they were forced to choose sides, it is more likely that they they'd simply decline and go back to being neutral, where the real money is, as opposed to sticking with garrosh.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Itisamuh View Post
    Do people honestly think Sylvanas was offended by being called a bitch? I'm sure she knows she is, and that's exactly what she was trying to be during that conversation.
    Meeting in Silverpine:

    Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: Where is that Ogre headed buffoon?
    Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: Ah, speak of the devil ...

    [Portals from Orgrimmar arrive with Hellscream, Hellscream's elite, and High Warlord Cromush.
    Hellscream jumps from the portal down to Sylvanas.]

    Garrosh Hellscream says: This better be important, Sylvanas. You know how I detest this place and its foul stench. Why have you called for me?
    Garrosh Hellscream says: And more importantly, what are those Scourge fiends doing here?

    [Garrosh makes a gesture at the Val'kyr.]

    Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: Warchief, so glad you could make it.
    Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: With the death of the Lich King, many of the more intelligent Scourge became...unemployed. Those 'fiends,' as you so delicately put it, are called val'kyr. They are under my command now...
    Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: ...and they are part of the reason that I asked to see you.
    Garrosh Hellscream says: Get on with it Sylvanas.
    Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: Very well, Warchief. I have solved the plight of the Forsaken!
    Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: As a race, we Forsaken are unable to procreate.
    Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: With the aid of the val'kyr, we are now able to take the corpses of the fallen and create new Forsaken.
    Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: Agatha, show the Warchief!

    [The Val'kyr Agatha proceeds to resurrect fallen corpses as Forsaken.]

    High Warlord Cromush says: ABERRATION!
    Garrosh Hellscream says: What you have done here, Sylvanas... it goes against the laws of nature. Disgusting is the only word I have to describe it.
    Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: Warchief, without these new Forsaken my people would die out ... Our hold upon Gilneas and northern Lordaeron would crumble.
    Garrosh Hellscream says: Have you given any thought to what this means, Sylvanas.
    Garrosh Hellscream says: What difference is there between you and the Lich King now?
    Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: Isn't it obvious, Warchief? I serve the Horde.

    [Sylvanas mockingly salutes Garrosh.]

    Garrosh Hellscream says: Watch your clever mouth, bitch.
    Garrosh Hellscream says: Cromush, you stay behind and make sure the Banshee Queen is well "guarded." I will be expecting a full report when next we meet.
    High Warlord Cromush says: As you command, Warchief!
    Garrosh Hellscream says: Remember, Sylvanas, eventually we all have to stand before our maker and face judgment. Your day may come sooner than others...

    *******************

    Honestly I think she was pissed at Garrosh's response, I think she genuinely believed that he would understand her "plight"...whether or not she is pissed about him calling her a bitch, by not allowing her to procreate her people he is essentially stripping her of her power, which I doubt she will stand for.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by GennGreymane View Post
    when does sylv have respect for thrall? she seems to care about no 1 but her self
    Cause Go'el has magic fingers and will fix the Horde of all it's problems.

  6. #106
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    Can't you get over Gilneas already.. It's 2013, goooosh...

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viscoe View Post
    Remember that it was the tauren who brought the Forsaken into the Horde.

    And Hamuul Runetotem's still around, so his reasoning probably hasn't faltered.

    Now also consider that Garrosh despises the Forsaken so much that he doesn't want them in his city. There isn't a single undead NPC in Orgrimmar. I'm surprised he didn't slice the zeppelin to Tirisfal apart. I don't think he would ALLOW Sylvanas to fight alongside him.
    Actually. There are forsaken a couple of feet next to Garrosh sharing the roof of the same building he is in. Grommash Hold. You see 2x Undead Deathguards and a Dark Cleric. Then there's also the envoys when Arathi Basin becomes Call to Arms.
    Last edited by mmoc9aedacf3cf; 2013-01-21 at 12:04 AM.

  8. #108
    I'm rather suprised that people are actually arguing that sylvanas will side with garrosh :/ Now I wont jump to the conclusion that she would leap at the opportunity to fight garrosh but its certainly in her best interests and while the other races may not be happy about having her with them shes not the issue removing garrosh is. also some people are really underestimating the rebels here after all essentially it is all of the other horde races and likely even many orcs (not the majority but likely elders and such who remember thrall's vision for the horde). Also even though they may still be outnumbered they will have backing from the alliance (remember its a raid ally will have to be there in some form) and no one is saying its going to be an easy fight THAT'S WHY ITS GOING TO BE A RAID! And if you need an actual lore reason for believing the alliance are involved remember that thrall's horde (the one voljin wants to bring back) never wanted war with the alliance because it wasnt worth it. With varian calming down this expac and voljin wanting to end the war it is likely they will set their differences aside once more to remove the tyrant that is causing all of this.

  9. #109
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    Garrosh made her continue to have Orcs watching them in Undercity (no more abominations for a while which made me very sad), called her a bitch, used her soldiers as meat shields, despises and fears the Forsaken, is very unstable mentally and emotionally, is in general a bad leader, and worst of all is a buzzkill Bob and won't let her use Plague (what the hell man!).

    While Cairne and Vol'Jin might be more critical, they're also better leaders and would treat her and the Forsaken better.
    Last edited by -Zait-; 2013-01-20 at 09:37 PM.



  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by GennGreymane View Post
    While she may not like him, the Forsaken have gained much more support under Garrosh's leadership and other than the plague issue was given free reign to do what they wanted.

    Why would Sylvanas join with Vol'jin and Baine. Both would likely be more critical of her actions
    Simply put, Garrosh pissed her off. Twice, even. First (in the Warcraft timeline) when he used her troops as meat shields in the first push into Gilneas to keep his orcs safe, second in Silverpine when they butted heads over her use of the Val'kyr. Baine and Vol'jin might not necessarily like or even approve of what she's doing, but they've also by and large left her the hell alone (which is what she wants from the Horde in return for the nominal aid she does offer them during their operations).

    The Forsaken have zero support in Garrosh's administration--the only help they're getting are from adventurers and Cromush (who was assigned more or less to kill Sylvanas as soon as she became more trouble than Garrosh felt her worth, note Garrosh's sarcastic use of the phrase 'Well-Guarded' when he gave orders for Cromush to accompany Sylvanas). Furthermore, Garrosh has continued the Kor'Kron occupation of the Undercity that Thrall began post-Wrathgate as a good-faith show to the Alliance, albeit for different reasons. Under Vol'jin and Baine, Sylvanas has the chance that they'll leave her alone to operate as usual, or at the very least she can count on them to deal with her fairly and listen to what she has to say (for better or worse).

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-20 at 04:39 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by GennGreymane View Post
    when does sylv have respect for thrall? she seems to care about no 1 but her self
    She was actually very respectful to Thrall in the climax of the Scourge invasion leading up to the war against the Lich King, and later during the fallout of the Wrathgate and Varimathras's coup when she met with Thrall and Jaina.
    Be seeing you guys on Bloodsail Buccaneers NA!



  11. #111
    Banned GennGreymane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by einherjarn View Post
    can't you get over gilneas already.. It's 2013, goooosh...
    never!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  12. #112
    she would know once the rest of the horde is standing against him, better to be on the winning side.
    very much this. She probably doesn't care who is on whose side as long as she is on the side that wins or that gives the best outcome for her people.

  13. #113
    Banned GennGreymane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archermit View Post
    very much this. She probably doesn't care who is on whose side as long as she is on the side that wins or that gives the best outcome for her people.
    but does she know who the winning side is?

  14. #114
    True. As Archermit said Sylvannas is not an idiot. She will simply side with the side that helps her achieve her goals which we all know what they really are.

  15. #115
    Merely a Setback Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GennGreymane View Post
    but does she know who the winning side is?
    well it wasn't gilneas... *cackles maniacally*

    But she is a smart cookie, she will know that when the horde and alliance are standing against garrosh, he will have no chance.
    #boycottchina

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by GennGreymane View Post
    but does she know who the winning side is?
    I think that she will make her decision after the Alliance has been brought into the rebellion. Right now the rebels don't have the manpower necessary to triumph over Garrosh and Slylv doesn't want to be on the short end of the stick, so she won't be quick to pick sides.
    So the rebels are stuck, but here comes Varian into the picture, as he is pissed at Garrosh but he cannot just storm into Orgrimmar and kill him, so he should be open to the approach of a rebel Horde leader (my money is on Vol'jin) to join and aid the insurrection. If Garrosh dies, it's a win-win for both of them. And at this point Sylv will join the coup

    Lastly, the fine print of the deal between Varian and the rebels can even state that the new warchief will end the war between the sides for good (and united happily we are ready for a new x-pac).

  17. #117
    I'm still holding out for Sylvanas being the one who kills Garrosh

  18. #118
    Banned GennGreymane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Callei View Post
    Simply put, Garrosh pissed her off. Twice, even. First (in the Warcraft timeline) when he used her troops as meat shields in the first push into Gilneas to keep his orcs safe, second in Silverpine when they butted heads over her use of the Val'kyr. Baine and Vol'jin might not necessarily like or even approve of what she's doing, but they've also by and large left her the hell alone (which is what she wants from the Horde in return for the nominal aid she does offer them during their operations).

    The Forsaken have zero support in Garrosh's administration--the only help they're getting are from adventurers and Cromush (who was assigned more or less to kill Sylvanas as soon as she became more trouble than Garrosh felt her worth, note Garrosh's sarcastic use of the phrase 'Well-Guarded' when he gave orders for Cromush to accompany Sylvanas). Furthermore, Garrosh has continued the Kor'Kron occupation of the Undercity that Thrall began post-Wrathgate as a good-faith show to the Alliance, albeit for different reasons. Under Vol'jin and Baine, Sylvanas has the chance that they'll leave her alone to operate as usual, or at the very least she can count on them to deal with her fairly and listen to what she has to say (for better or worse).

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-20 at 04:39 PM ----------

    She was actually very respectful to Thrall in the climax of the Scourge invasion leading up to the war against the Lich King, and later during the fallout of the Wrathgate and Varimathras's coup when she met with Thrall and Jaina.


    respectful =/= respect she needed help

    this is true in real life diplomacy. you are respectful to the one you speak to, but you dont have to respect them. you are respectful to them based out of position only and why you speak to them in the first place.

    im sure many world leaders do not respect the syrian president, but if any diplomatic actions arise they will be respectful towards him despite his actions.
    Last edited by GennGreymane; 2013-01-20 at 11:11 PM.

  19. #119
    Banned Haven's Avatar
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    No way. Her short story and Silverpine/Gilneas quests clearly shows how Garrosh treats the Forsaken: he's not concerned with their well-being and problems of procreation, and he would merrily use them as cannon fodder, while forbidding them to fight with their true power (the Plague). He's the one who initiated the war on Gilneas in the first place. So I seeeeeeriously doubt Sylvanas has any reasons to not "help" him fall in some subtle way.

  20. #120
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    You know it would be really awesome if we had the ending of all ''Rebel'' Horde Leaders delivering the killing blow. Much like Deathwing where you had the help of the Aspects + Thrall, during Garrosh's demise you'd see Vol'jin, Lor'themar, Baine and Sylvannas (maybe even Ji Firepaw and Gallywix, I don't know) during the Garrosh fight and the epic finish where he dies.

    Anyway... It would make a dramatic ending and pretty good lore-wise in my oppinion!

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