Should Sylvanas Fight Alongside Garrosh?

[Darkenedfist]

That is true, but for them to have gone forward, they had to take a couple of steps back. i.e the loss of the Alchemists and the Demon-lord. But right now what threat is there exactly to Lordaeron? Now take out Garrosh (you got a civil war with the Orcs). This leaves the Trolls to their island, the Taurens to their mountain and the Elves to their half destroyed city. I really see no formidable threat except from the Forsaken, but that alone is not enough against the full might of the Alliance! Take the Orcs out for just a week and the Alliance would be playing duck duck goose and go one by one picking off each city.

We don't know what hits the alliance will take before siege, I am putting my money on the alliance and horde winning a pyrrhic victory.

[DeathKnight Guy]

Revolutionary War? :P

They'll go where the crowd is; if most of the Horde sides with Garrosh then that is where they will stay. But if most of the Horde decides to fight I think that is where they will go too.

I think the trolls would be more likely to show alliance imo.

And don't underestimate the blood elves, I'm sure they would LOVE to have a servant/merchant race that exists to take care of their every whim (for a price), and I wouldn't be surprised if they had the coffers to finance it...

Garrosh is the one with the many and the CLEAR advantage, no you are wrong about the Goblins, they selected to side with the Orcs, just look at Azhara, does that look like a "convenience" to you? They f*cking reconstructed the whole of the peninsula to the shape of the Horde sign xD Also no way would the Goblins side with the Taurens or Trolls, they have NOTHING in common with them, and the Elves are just a bunch of fancy pansy magic loving dudes, I really see no place for Goblins there. It's a fact that the Horde is the most "unlikely" alliance in Azeroth, but what is keeping them together? Orgimmar and the Orcs, because they are the common link to each race.

Take Orcs out and there is nothing in common. The Elves were already at War with the Trolls in past times, Taurens are too Nomadic for their liking, Forsaken are too... gruesome, and really the Goblins are like comparing crazy scientists to extremist holy priests (IRL).

[Icarris]

That is true, but for them to have gone forward, they had to take a couple of steps back. i.e the loss of the Alchemists and the Demon-lord. But right now what threat is there exactly to Lordaeron? Now take out Garrosh (you got a civil war with the Orcs). This leaves the Trolls to their island, the Taurens to their mountain and the Elves to their half destroyed city. I really see no formidable threat except from the Forsaken, but that alone is not enough against the full might of the Alliance! Take the Orcs out for just a week and the Alliance would be playing duck duck goose and go one by one picking off each city.

Western Plaguelands (particularly the battle of andorhal), Hillsbrad (South Shore), Silverpine, most of Arathi Highlands, and Gilneas is a stale mate, all from just the Forsaken force. They've taken nearly the entire upper half of the Eastern Kingdoms by themselves.

[DeathKnight Guy]

Yeah at the moment they are, but we haven't seen the extent of Garrosh depravity yet and it will disgust most orcs. Your example of a Kor'kron halting Thrall is a poor one, the Kor'kron are a very fanatical faction of orc warriors, they uphold the will of the warchief without question. Garrosh is the warchief not Thrall. Garrosh also has his Kor'kron and his top goon Malkorok or whatever he's called, beat or kill any dissidents so it's no wonder nobody is really piping up yet, this rebellion is very much in the shadows away from the public eye.

And even if the vast majority of orcs stay with Garrosh (they wont) the forsaken, tauren, trolls, goblins and blood elves combined could take on the orcs. Why would they need Alliance help? Because Garrosh will still have control of the city during the uprising, their aim is to take it back not destroy it and I'm sure Garrosh will have some nasty trick up his sleeve waiting for the separatist army. Why refuse help disposing a mutual enemy when it's openly given?

You are grouping those races as if they all share the same "aim". Really the Goblins have NO place in that Alliance because the money and their city is with Garrosh. It was the Orcs who saved them not the Elves -.- And you are just assuming that the Forsaken are instantly going to side with them, which is a HUGE assumption, and do you really think the Elves will play a major role? They don't despise Garrosh that much, and they do not have incentive enough to take troops from their already recovering land and put them to fight in Orgrimmar.

You are just assuming that those races are just going to side together, because it really is unlikely apart from Trolls+Taurens.

[Darkenedfist]

I see you are also seeing the war long term like me. Everybody is forgetting the Alliance is still there, just waiting for the chance to pounce and recollect Lordaeron, cripple the Trolls, decimate the Orcs, punish the elves and Rofl-stomp the Goblins. Only Taurens seem safe tbh.

Yes and remove all but one of the horde races from the playable roster brillant idea.

[Deleted]

When did that happen?

5.2 horde storyline

[DeathKnight Guy]

Western Plaguelands (particularly the battle of andorhal), Hillsbrad (South Shore), Silverpine, most of Arathi Highlands, and Gilneas is a stale mate, all from just the Forsaken force. They've taken nearly the entire upper half of the Eastern Kingdoms by themselves.

I would like to remind you that Western Plaguelands was only lost due to Thassarian and Koltira refusing to fight each other head on. The plaguelands are clearly contested territory, Gilneas won't remain empty for long and Arathi Highlands was so insignificant it really cannot count as a full victory (still contested territory).

---------- Post added 2013-01-21 at 12:40 AM ----------

Yes and remove all but one of the horde races from the playable roster brillant idea.

Yes, I see not much quarrel between the Alliance and the Tauren, they really have done the least damage to the Alliance, all they do is protect their land and send some troops in the wareffort, they are perhaps the least of the Alliances worries if they were capable of breaking up the Horde.

---------- Post added 2013-01-21 at 12:43 AM ----------

Yes and remove all but one of the horde races from the playable roster brillant idea.

You are aware that we are talking lore-wise here, not gameplay...

[Tapzer]

Remember that it was the tauren who brought the Forsaken into the Horde.

And Hamuul Runetotem's still around, so his reasoning probably hasn't faltered.

Now also consider that Garrosh despises the Forsaken so much that he doesn't want them in his city. There isn't a single undead NPC in Orgrimmar. I'm surprised he didn't slice the zeppelin to Tirisfal apart. I don't think he would ALLOW Sylvanas to fight alongside him.

Didnt Hameel Runtotem die during the last quest of deepholm? Im no 100% sure, but i know a tauren shaman died in that quest though it was him

[DeathKnight Guy]

Blizz isn't going to have the alliance rolfstomp the horde completely I wouldn't assume that the alliance would be at full strength by the time the siege is over with.

Don't mean to be rude here but your assumption really means nothing here, think about it logically. If all races do decide to lay siege to Orgimmar, I highly doubt the Alliance would not be at full strength, in fact they would have an even greater advantage, they would readily have troops stationed in Durotar, an easy way to take out the Trolls, Taurens and Goblins (who are also coming out of a war).

[seije]

question: are the goblins actually getting paid? Or is garrosh simply piling up a debt he has no intention of honoring? It's been a while since i've played the low level horde quests, but i seem to remember one involving approaching the goblins building catapults near the aszhara entrance, and roughing em up a bit. I also seem to remember something in the quest text about garrosh refusing to pay them if they didn't do the job to his satisfaction. Something else to keep in mind, Gallywix is mysteriously MIA. whose to say that garrosh doesn't have him hidden somewhere and is threatening him if he doesn't issue orders to keep the goblins in line?

I'm not saying the goblins wouldn't side with garrosh, but i am saying they certainly won't if they don't expect to get paid.

as for sylvannas, I think it makes sense for her to fight against garrosh, even if it results in a weaker horde. As someone else stated earlier, a weaker horde might be more reliant on dirty tactics, such as her undead plague- or, a weaker horde may not be able to stop her from using the plague. Keep in mind, the less in the pie, the bigger the slice. And lastly, whose to say the horde will actually be weaker, come the end of this rebellion? war = death. abracadabra, all the previously hostile orcs that were Garrosh's are now Sylvannas's to control. Any other fallen horde or alliance could meet the same end. If she's smart about things, she could see a massive population swing in her favor. seems to me that sylvannas has very much to gain from a civil war backed by alliance interests.

[Darkenedfist]

You are aware that we are talking lore-wise here, not gameplay...

Yes I am aware all I am saying is that this is all assuming the alliance doesn't take anymore losses.

[Verdugo]

You are aware that we are talking lore-wise here, not gameplay...

Gameplay dictates lore.

Thats why I know that my pretty realistic fanwank wont make it into the game.

[checking facts]

-Goblin technology, I can already see it, Zeppelins, warboats, flying machines, demolishers, bombs

throw a lit match on their general direction and all of it blows up lol

[DeathKnight Guy]

question: are the goblins actually getting paid? Or is garrosh simply piling up a debt he has no intention of honoring? It's been a while since i've played the low level horde quests, but i seem to remember one involving approaching the goblins building catapults near the aszhara entrance, and roughing em up a bit. I also seem to remember something in the quest text about garrosh refusing to pay them if they didn't do the job to his satisfaction. Something else to keep in mind, Gallywix is mysteriously MIA. whose to say that garrosh doesn't have him hidden somewhere and is threatening him if he doesn't issue orders to keep the goblins in line?

I'm not saying the goblins wouldn't side with garrosh, but i am saying they certainly won't if they don't expect to get paid.

as for sylvannas, I think it makes sense for her to fight against garrosh, even if it results in a weaker horde. As someone else stated earlier, a weaker horde might be more reliant on dirty tactics, such as her undead plague- or, a weaker horde may not be able to stop her from using the plague. Keep in mind, the less in the pie, the bigger the slice. And lastly, whose to say the horde will actually be weaker, come the end of this rebellion? war = death. abracadabra, all the previously hostile orcs that were Garrosh's are now Sylvannas's to control. Any other fallen horde or alliance could meet the same end. If she's smart about things, she could see a massive population swing in her favor. seems to me that sylvannas has very much to gain from a civil war backed by alliance interests.

Yeah because resurrecting the entirety of the dead is going to be fine with Azeroth right? Lol please just think about it, I can already see it, she does that and the Ebon Blade and Argent Dawn will be on her ass like she was the new Lich King. She isn't that dumb to just raise all the Horde and casually be accepted by all other races, if she does that, she basically dooms herself to eternal damnation. I want to remind you that the Goblins are STRONGLY Orc sided, they really have NO other place in the whole Horde, they fit NO where. Regardless if they get paid or not, their home is in Orgrimmar and Azhara, and their only friends in the Horde (and supporters) are the Orcs.

Regardless if they get paid or not, I really don't see the Elves, Trolls or Tauren paying them.

[Verdugo]

she does that and the Ebon Blade and Argent Dawn will be on her ass like she was the new Lich King.

For the last time, Ebon Blade only cared about revenge because they were betrayed and Argent Dawn is weak. Seriously, do the Northrend quests again. They spend most of the time killing fresh recruits that we had to save while others had to do all the dirty work.

[Darth-Piekus]

Correct me if I am wrong but aren't those weak factions as you call the ones responsible for bringing down the Lich King while that idiot Garrosh was an obstacle in the whole campaign?

Anyway this whole Lich Queen thing will end with the new Warchief who will finally put her in her place.

[DeathKnight Guy]

For the last time, Ebon Blade only cared about revenge because they were betrayed and Argent Dawn is weak. Seriously, do the Northrend quests again. They spend most of the time killing fresh recruits that we had to save while others had to do all the dirty work.

And their job has been done, you have to clearly re-read what Blizzard added new. You think the Ebon-blade will just watch a new "Lich Queen" rise up? You cannot assume what the Ebon Blades aims in the past suddenly equals to their only aims now. They killed the Lich King and they are slowly moving forward.

Your passive aggressiveness is not really required here because you are wrong -.- You think the Ebon blade forgot about Koltira? Because I sure as hell did not, if she even tries to hurt him the Ebon Blade WILL take action, it isn't :"Oh we killed the LK so thats our life's purpose done, lets just slowly die now as Koltira gets tortured".

---------- Post added 2013-01-21 at 01:07 AM ----------

Correct me if I am wrong but aren't those weak factions as you call the ones responsible for bringing down the Lich King while that idiot Garrosh was an obstacle in the whole campaign?

Anyway this whole Lich Queen thing will end with the new Warchief who will finally put her in her place.

Trolls, Taurens and Elves took down the LK? Since when? :O

[Verdugo]

And their job has been done, you have to clearly re-read what Blizzard added new. You think the Ebon-blade will just watch a new "Lich Queen" rise up? You cannot assume what the Ebon Blades aims in the past suddenly equals to their only aims now. They killed the Lich King and they are slowly moving forward.

Just watch? Should Sylvanas unite Azeroth in undeath, they would even join her.

Although diplomacy goes a long way, Forsaken should start soon.

[Scummer]

Anyway this whole Lich Queen thing will end with the new Warchief who will finally put her in her place.

I don't think Sylvanas is the kinda person that will just back down and stop bringing the Horde down. Everything she's done up until this point proves this. Her suicide attempt only further deepened that resolve. As I've mentioned before she's gone too far down the rabbit hole to simply be put in her place without some sort of major social reform of the Forsaken enacted by the new Warchief.

[Itisamuh]

Do people honestly think Sylvanas was offended by being called a bitch? I'm sure she knows she is, and that's exactly what she was trying to be during that conversation. Personally I think if Garrosh got over his anti everything that's not an orc bias, they'd probably get along quite well. It wouldn't surprise me a bit to see her aid him in some way, or at least play the fence. My prediction is that she won't align herself fully to anyone, until perhaps Thrall enters the picture. She seems to actually have some respect for him, so she'd probably choose him over Garrosh.