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  1. #481
    The Insane Kujako's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistuhbull View Post
    But...but..Death Panels...and Communists
    Wish we had the so called death panels. End of life planning is kind of important.
    It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.

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  2. #482
    Deleted
    I wonder how many patients in America who undergo emergency surgeries are due to them not seeking treatment because of the costs, which results in a more expensive procedure.

    Medical Insurance is a buisness. So you for example every $10 you pay, what $8 goes to medical care, $2 to the company. Pay $10 in tax for medical care, $10 goes to medical care (not exact figures, the point is the copmanies take money as profits so less is available to go to medical care).
    In the same idea, They either pick the most expensive drug to increase the cost on the patients (more profit for them) in most cases it really has no major difference to other drugs (something like the new $1 drug once a day, rather than the previous version of the drug, where you take two a day for $0.70...Taking fewer or a shorter treatment may be nice but is it worth it.
    Either they go more expensive or they go for the cheap ones, and hope that your treatment is less thean how much you paid into your account, which they can keep if when you die (Say you spend $100,000 on medical insurance in your life time, when you die you dont get a refund on unused balance. You can either give them the $80,000 treatment and take $20,000...or you can give them the $60,000 treatment and take $40,000)

    There seems to be the 'i don't want to pay so .... gets treatment' which in all honest happens now, the companies i doubt have individual accounts its a big account where all the money is and it goes by treatment. But that is if you don't get ill, think about it as 'if i get i'll other people pay for my treatment, its less of a burden for me' i'm sure it will become more popular then

  3. #483
    Quote Originally Posted by Dakia View Post
    Socialized medicine doesn't suck.

    However, for some unknown reason, the idiots on booth sides think the US is getting socialized medicine.
    the truth in this made me want to laugh and cry at the same time
    Quote Originally Posted by TradewindNQ View Post
    The fucking Derpship has crashed on Herp Island...
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Meet the new derp.

    Same as the old derp.

  4. #484
    I am Murloc!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    The reason it is much cheaper in other countries is because they limit the amount that will be paid by the government forcing the US to subsidize research into new drugs and procedures by paying the asinine prices we do. Ever wonder why new drugs and medical procedures are never discovered or invented anywhere other than the US?
    Really? Can you back that bold claim up with numbers? And the numbers have to be based on where big pharmaceuticals do their research. I will be happy with the top 10 pharmaceutical companies

    Taken from wikipedia the top 10 (if current) is [edit had copied the wrong list]

    Pfizer (with Wyeth), Johnson & Johnson, Hoffmann–La Roche, Novartis, GlaxoSmithKline, Sanofi-Aventis, AstraZeneca, Abbott Laboratories, Merck & Co.,Bristol-Myers Squibb
    Last edited by Xarkan; 2013-01-22 at 09:15 PM.

  5. #485
    Quote Originally Posted by Wiyld View Post
    Having lived in Taiwan for years I can tell you that is flat out wrong. The medical care there is fucking terrible. The locals know that if you get hurt or sick you don't bother calling 911, you flag down a taxi. It will get you to the hospital faster and safer then any ambulance ever will.

    I can't tell you how many stupid news stories I read while we were there about people dying because the hospital gave them the wrong blood type or something equally ridiculous.

    Yes they can handle routine issues that have had treatments for 100 years. No, they cannot deal with much anything new or that requires advanced treatments.
    I lived there for 6 years, my father for many more years before me. Half my family still lives there, and I have not once nor has any member of my family encountered the poor treatment your talking about, except for the occasional shitty dentist. Yes, you call a taxi but that's because taxis are literally everywhere and they don't give a shit about traffic rules. Of course you'd take a taxi as opposed to an ambulance when a taxi passes your house every 30 seconds.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    There are no 2 species that are 100% identical.
    Quote Originally Posted by Redditor
    can you leftist twits just fucking admit that quantum mechanics has fuck all to do with thermodynamics, that shit is just a pose?

  6. #486
    It doesn't. But there is a better answer.

    I enjoyed my $2000 MRI. However, were I Japanese, I would have enjoyed it to the cost of $81.

    Socialized health care spreads costs by having everyone buy in. That takes the edge off, but doesn't directly address the underlying problem: even paid for in a social entitlement, procedures still cost far too much.

    Japan figured this out 20 years ago, so they picked the obvious solution - they got healthcare providers and insurers in a room, and told them to work out procedure fees, but if any fee the government thinks is unfair, it will set the price. Yes, you read that right... Japan, the world's third largest economy, one of its most technologically advanced nation, a temple of capitalism has had Price Controls for health services for decades.

    I want to skip the socializing step. I think it's a sideshow. A $2000 procedure where you get scanned by a $100,000 machine that will scan on the hour for five years before being replaced shouldnt cost $2000, no matter who pays for it. It should cost tens of dollars. Japan figured that out. And their heath care costs are completely under control.

    That's what I want to see. Price Control for Medical Services. Let the government dictate, by law how much services should cost and index it to inflation.

    Japan is a country like us in more ways than not. It would work here. We just have to accept that a "market for healthcare" is actually a pretty ridiculous thing. It is totally sensible for there to be a "market" for a computer, a tire, good or fruits and vegetables. But on services to relieve suffering or save life itself? That's obscene. And there is an empirically proven better way.

    Sociaizing it still makes it expensive. Just out right legislating cost of services however, keeps it cheap and give Presidents the power to set costs by executive order.

  7. #487
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroesec View Post

    I want to skip the socializing step. I think it's a sideshow. A $2000 procedure where you get scanned by a $100,000 machine that will scan on the hour for five years before being replaced shouldnt cost $2000, no matter who pays for it. It should cost tens of dollars. Japan figured that out. And their heath care costs are completely under control.
    I agree with the general idea of what you're saying but it isn't as easy as it sounds and I think you used a bad example. MRI machines cost at least 1 million dollars, and upwards of several million depending on their power. You also have to pay an installation fee which is several hundred thousand dollars and then you have to pay technicians to run the machine. The technicians are well trained too so they have not too bad of pay. Then there's the cost of keeping a machine like that running in your hospital. And finally you have to make a profit to pay for administrative costs of the hospital. Tens of dollars wouldn't ever pay it off I don't think.

  8. #488
    Merely a Setback Reeve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Annapolis View Post
    I agree with the general idea of what you're saying but it isn't as easy as it sounds and I think you used a bad example. MRI machines cost at least 1 million dollars, and upwards of several million depending on their power. You also have to pay an installation fee which is several hundred thousand dollars and then you have to pay technicians to run the machine. The technicians are well trained too so they have not too bad of pay. Then there's the cost of keeping a machine like that running in your hospital. And finally you have to make a profit to pay for administrative costs of the hospital. Tens of dollars wouldn't ever pay it off I don't think.
    Maybe not, but the $3,000 per 15 minute scan will pay it off and then some. Unfortunately, our radiology clinics need the newest best technology, so instead of reducing price after the machine is paid off, or having a lower price with a longer amortization in the first place, they buy the new machine, and their patients get stuck with the bill. Because the vast majority of people utilizing these services have insurance, you don't have price competition to nearly the degree you would otherwise have. Patients generally don't choose their radiologists based on pricing, so we end up with ridiculously overpriced service.
    'Twas a cutlass swipe or an ounce of lead
    Or a yawing hole in a battered head
    And the scuppers clogged with rotting red
    And there they lay I damn me eyes
    All lookouts clapped on Paradise
    All souls bound just contrarywise, yo ho ho and a bottle of rum!

  9. #489
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroesec View Post
    It doesn't. But there is a better answer.

    I enjoyed my $2000 MRI. However, were I Japanese, I would have enjoyed it to the cost of $81.

    Socialized health care spreads costs by having everyone buy in. That takes the edge off, but doesn't directly address the underlying problem: even paid for in a social entitlement, procedures still cost far too much.

    Japan figured this out 20 years ago, so they picked the obvious solution - they got healthcare providers and insurers in a room, and told them to work out procedure fees, but if any fee the government thinks is unfair, it will set the price. Yes, you read that right... Japan, the world's third largest economy, one of its most technologically advanced nation, a temple of capitalism has had Price Controls for health services for decades.

    I want to skip the socializing step. I think it's a sideshow. A $2000 procedure where you get scanned by a $100,000 machine that will scan on the hour for five years before being replaced shouldnt cost $2000, no matter who pays for it. It should cost tens of dollars. Japan figured that out. And their heath care costs are completely under control.

    That's what I want to see. Price Control for Medical Services. Let the government dictate, by law how much services should cost and index it to inflation.

    Japan is a country like us in more ways than not. It would work here. We just have to accept that a "market for healthcare" is actually a pretty ridiculous thing. It is totally sensible for there to be a "market" for a computer, a tire, good or fruits and vegetables. But on services to relieve suffering or save life itself? That's obscene. And there is an empirically proven better way.

    Sociaizing it still makes it expensive. Just out right legislating cost of services however, keeps it cheap and give Presidents the power to set costs by executive order.
    Dont you think that if you let the healthcare providers and insurers to do that in the US that you just end up with worse care?

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